Contador tests positive for Clenbuterol
Comments
-
Tusher wrote:I wish this was unbelievable.
I wish this wasn't predictable.0 -
Personally, I hope they do let him off entirely.
At least that way they'd have effectively fired the opening shot in a war between national federations and WADA that needs to be fought to prevent ridiculous shows of favouritism and nationalism in the future. So go on, let him off, destroy the last remaining vestiges of credibility and integrity you may have and let us tear it down and build something that works in it's place.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Alberto won't be in the TdF, you think they'd invite him back? I doubt it, too much of a dark cloud around him. And I think CAS will act in a way they have with other athletes and mete out a suspension. So many Spanish riders have been caught even around the time we heard about this story. This would hurt the Tour if he were back, even if not officially sanctioned, people won't like it across borders. He might be in the Vuelta , not sure of all the organising that goes on. I don't think he'd be looked at favourably at the Giro but maybe he'd go. And hey, I don't trust the other riders more, they just didn't get caught. AC may be, what is the word? A red herring.0
-
cajun_cyclist wrote:Alberto won't be in the TdF, you think they'd invite him back? I doubt it, too much of a dark cloud around him. And I think CAS will act in a way they have with other athletes and mete out a suspension. So many Spanish riders have been caught even around the time we heard about this story. This would hurt the Tour if he were back, even if not officially sanctioned, people won't like it across borders. He might be in the Vuelta , not sure of all the organising that goes on. I don't think he'd be looked at favourably at the Giro but maybe he'd go. And hey, I don't trust the other riders more, they just didn't get caught. AC may be, what is the word? A red herring.
Tour organisers want him there and are welcoming him with open arms..
0 -
I wonder how much this has cost him?0
-
Richrd2205 wrote:One thing that doesn't seem to have been covered which is confusing me is the increase in Clen levels in Contador's samples....
The final +ve appears to be higher than the previous two: the four positives are:
50; 16; 7; then 17 (picogrammes per millilitre). I've seen one interview claiming that this is normal, but nothing to substantiate that claim. My (limited) understanding of pharmokinetics would suggest a subsequent (but smaller) dose. What's going on? Why would levels rise before the substance is eliminated?
Is this that spin has persuaded folk to look the other way, or is this actually a normal pattern in eliminating substances from the body?
Sorry if this is a dumb question.
Don't want to wade into the guilty/not-so-guilty debate but for what it's worth here's some scientific background to help you form YOUR (i.e. not that of UCI, WADA, RFEC) opinion:
50 pg/mL equals 0.00005 ppm (part per million) or 50 parts per trillion if you like!.
As this was present in urine samples, of course they will fluctuate in the four samples taken depending on such factors as how concentrated the urine is (i.e. how much was drunk) and on kidney activity.
That totals 200 ng of clenbuterol assuming the four samples were taken over 4 days, that the concentration of clenbuterol averaged 25 pg/mL and that 2 litres of urine was produced per day.
If that's all the clenbuterol present in a human system that would be 33 pg/mL blood volume assuming 66 kg body weight and all the clenbuterol circulating in the vascular system.0 -
cajun_cyclist wrote:Alberto won't be in the TdF, you think they'd invite him back? I doubt it, too much of a dark cloud around him. And I think CAS will act in a way they have with other athletes and mete out a suspension. So many Spanish riders have been caught even around the time we heard about this story. This would hurt the Tour if he were back, even if not officially sanctioned, people won't like it across borders. He might be in the Vuelta , not sure of all the organising that goes on. I don't think he'd be looked at favourably at the Giro but maybe he'd go. And hey, I don't trust the other riders more, they just didn't get caught. AC may be, what is the word? A red herring.
Surely if they let him off hes effectivly not guilty .0 -
skylla wrote:Richrd2205 wrote:One thing that doesn't seem to have been covered which is confusing me is the increase in Clen levels in Contador's samples....
The final +ve appears to be higher than the previous two: the four positives are:
50; 16; 7; then 17 (picogrammes per millilitre). I've seen one interview claiming that this is normal, but nothing to substantiate that claim. My (limited) understanding of pharmokinetics would suggest a subsequent (but smaller) dose. What's going on? Why would levels rise before the substance is eliminated?
Is this that spin has persuaded folk to look the other way, or is this actually a normal pattern in eliminating substances from the body?
Sorry if this is a dumb question.
Don't want to wade into the guilty/not-so-guilty debate but for what it's worth here's some scientific background to help you form YOUR (i.e. not that of UCI, WADA, RFEC) opinion:
50 pg/mL equals 0.00005 ppm (part per million) or 50 parts per trillion if you like!.
As this was present in urine samples, of course they will fluctuate in the four samples taken depending on such factors as how concentrated the urine is (i.e. how much was drunk) and on kidney activity.
That totals 200 ng of clenbuterol assuming the four samples were taken over 4 days, that the concentration of clenbuterol averaged 25 pg/mL and that 2 litres of urine was produced per day.
If that's all the clenbuterol present in a human system that would be 33 pg/mL blood volume assuming 66 kg body weight and all the clenbuterol circulating in the vascular system.
Plasticisers0 -
Tusher wrote:Bet Pat McQuaid's relieved.
Anyone seen ff?
This is a horror scenario for McQuaid. They have to take it to CAS, which will cost a lot of money and more negative publicity for cycling. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
i thank you. bet the schleks are relieved.0
-
iainf72 wrote:Tusher wrote:Bet Pat McQuaid's relieved.
Anyone seen ff?
This is a horror scenario for McQuaid. They have to take it to CAS, which will cost a lot of money and more negative publicity for cycling. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.
Surely WADA will wade in. They can't let this one slide. It's too high profile.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Right, "They" from what I understand would be WADA, WADA would appeal to CAS which I"m sure they would... http://www.theoffside.com/world-footbal ... -year.html Not a good example of the story itself but the Italian footballer story is a fair parallel, the Italian Football Federation or CONI probably did not serve a severe sentence so WADA appealed and if one doesn't want to go to the site, these players merely were late to the test and passed the tests themselves. I read this story in the mainstream media about 2 years ago but now, this is all i can find.
I don't know If UCI/McQuaid would be the ones appealing, I guess they could... don't know.
After the rulings on Landis and these footballers, I find it hard to think Contador would fair better. Maybe they can throw up some smoke about the facts but I'd be about 75% and probably more sure they'd rule against him.0 -
So, Pedro Lopes gets 15 years ( :shock: ) for his second doping infraction, but he didn't even fail a test (ok - he missed them) and then on the other side we have Contador who has failed a test but gets nothing.
In Pedro's case the FPC appear to making an example and to try and change their image and go OTT in the process. Will the Spanish authorities suddenly change their tune if this backfires?
The whole thing is a bit bonkers. WADA and the UCI (don't hold your breath) have to do something in Contadors case, otherwise it's beyond the pale. I think Ian is right, Pat is between a rock and a hard place.Mens agitat molem0 -
RichN95 wrote:iainf72 wrote:Tusher wrote:Bet Pat McQuaid's relieved.
Anyone seen ff?
This is a horror scenario for McQuaid. They have to take it to CAS, which will cost a lot of money and more negative publicity for cycling. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.
Surely WADA will wade in. They can't let this one slide. It's too high profile.
And how long will all this take??? When will we know who won the 2010 Tour?0 -
AndyXM: WADA and CAS have acted quickly with Landis and the Italian Footballers.
So I would be looking to hear if WADA is making a move.
Something tells me, they are not exactly happy with AC.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... 08c692.171
But the Spanish Federation buckled... this article is actually rather informative.
"'Disgusted' Contador hits out at WADA, UCI"
"If however the Spanish cycling authorities fail to ban Contador, the UCI, which is understood to want to apply the anti-doping rules to the letter, would likely appeal to the Switzerland-based Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) in a bid to ban the Spaniard."
We'll see....0 -
Doobz wrote:cajun_cyclist wrote:Alberto won't be in the TdF, you think they'd invite him back? I doubt it, too much of a dark cloud around him. And I think CAS will act in a way they have with other athletes and mete out a suspension. So many Spanish riders have been caught even around the time we heard about this story. This would hurt the Tour if he were back, even if not officially sanctioned, people won't like it across borders. He might be in the Vuelta , not sure of all the organising that goes on. I don't think he'd be looked at favourably at the Giro but maybe he'd go. And hey, I don't trust the other riders more, they just didn't get caught. AC may be, what is the word? A red herring.
Tour organisers want him there and are welcoming him with open arms..
Correct.
The majority of people who are involved in this sport for a living (ie/. who have much better knowledge and can form much better opinions) like Alberto, respect him and would be happy to see him ride.
I for one hope he doesn't ride the Tour. Giro, Vuelta slam...now we are talking excitement.Contador is the Greatest0 -
The question is not one of whether he is a likeable person though is it, it's whether he cheated or not.0
-
frenchfighter wrote:
The majority of people who are involved in this sport for a living (ie/. who have much better knowledge and can form much better opinions) like Alberto, respect him and would be happy to see him ride.
Really? In what parallel universe?0 -
Worth a read from inrng
http://inrng.com/?p=989
In many way, this whole thing is the worst case scenario for cycling.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Agree. Hopefully the UCI and WADA have the stomach for the job.0
-
Looks like the RFEC might also be between a rock and a hard place. Doubt they are going to go OTT like in the Lopes case, but something somewhere is going to have to give.
Who is going to blink first?
Politics VS. Doing the Right Thing. We all know who normally wins that one...Mens agitat molem0 -
Get off your high horses: if it had been another rider, with exactly the same considerations and circumstances, exactly the same defence, the result would have been the same. The only thing that differs could be Contador's means, allowing him access to a better defence or possibly the country.
And people say this is bad for cycling: for who exactly? Other riders, no, they like him. Fans, no, there are a ton that like him. Outsiders, don't care anyway and in fact will see this as positive maybe due to a reversal of an original bad press. Contador, no, he will continue to do what he has always done and win races throughout the season. Sponsors, no, someone like him is in demand.Contador is the Greatest0 -
frenchfighter wrote:Get off your high horses: if it had been another rider, with exactly the same considerations and circumstances, exactly the same defence, the result would have been the same. The only thing that differs could be Contador's means, allowing him access to a better defence or possibly the country.
And people say this is bad for cycling: for who exactly? Other riders, no, they like him. Fans, no, there are a ton that like him. Outsiders, don't care anyway and in fact will see this as positive maybe due to a reversal of an original bad press. Contador, no, he will continue to do what he has always done and win races throughout the season. Sponsors, no, someone like him is in demand.
Well, at least one high profile rider disagrees with you
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/boonen-cant-understand-why-contador-might-not-face-suspensionTwitter: @RichN950 -
Boonen is confused
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/boonen- ... suspension
Right, let me break this down for you FF.
Yes, Contador is widely liked by his peers. But so what.
Did he have clen in his system? Yes he did. Strict liability = 2 year ban. If he can prove it wasn't intentional the ban can be reduced. But has he proved this? Not that we've seen but if he had evidence, surely he'd be showing it publically? But he's not.
So WADA and the UCI are left with 1 option. Appeal to CAS to get a ban. WADA will also have to go to the IOC about Spain's conduct and refusal to enforce the rules. Meanwhile Contador can "technically" race, but there are moves to get him banned. It will be like Valverde part 2 with someone who shouldn't be riding winning races and the public thinking cycling is filthy and can't deal with it's doping problem.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
frenchfighter wrote:Get off your high horses: if it had been another rider, with exactly the same considerations and circumstances, exactly the same defence, the result would have been the same. The only thing that differs could be Contador's means, allowing him access to a better defence or possibly the country.
And people say this is bad for cycling: for who exactly? Other riders, no, they like him. Fans, no, there are a ton that like him. Outsiders, don't care anyway and in fact will see this as positive maybe due to a reversal of an original bad press. Contador, no, he will continue to do what he has always done and win races throughout the season. Sponsors, no, someone like him is in demand.
It's bad for the sport because it shows that the rules are applied inconsistently in a way that favours the big name riders.
I imagine Li Fuyu is watching this unfold with some interest.0 -
Totally agree with Iain.0
-
frenchfighter wrote:Doobz wrote:cajun_cyclist wrote:Alberto won't be in the TdF, you think they'd invite him back? I doubt it, too much of a dark cloud around him. And I think CAS will act in a way they have with other athletes and mete out a suspension. So many Spanish riders have been caught even around the time we heard about this story. This would hurt the Tour if he were back, even if not officially sanctioned, people won't like it across borders. He might be in the Vuelta , not sure of all the organising that goes on. I don't think he'd be looked at favourably at the Giro but maybe he'd go. And hey, I don't trust the other riders more, they just didn't get caught. AC may be, what is the word? A red herring.
Tour organisers want him there and are welcoming him with open arms..
Correct.
The majority of people who are involved in this sport for a living (ie/. who have much better knowledge and can form much better opinions) like Alberto, respect him and would be happy to see him ride.
I for one hope he doesn't ride the Tour. Giro, Vuelta slam...now we are talking excitement.
Actually, better informed people like Tom Boonen don't understand why they are allowing Alberto to get away with this. Like or Dislike doesn't matter a hill of beans. Speaking of High Horses?!“I'm not saying that the Spaniard has done anything wrong. I just don't know,” Boonen, told sportwereld.com. “I do know that others in the same situation have been suspended. Why not him?”
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/boonen- ... suspension0 -
