Contador tests positive for Clenbuterol
Comments
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Precisely0
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Pokerface wrote:Arkibal wrote:
If he got the clen through contamination, how is that breaking the rules?
Very simply because the 'rules' state that you are responsible for whatever goes into your body. It may not seem right, especially in cases of genuine contamination or mistake, but those are the rules.
If this ever happens to a British rider, I will remember this.
But fair point.0 -
You think people would support a British rider who was obviously guilty as sin and then denied everything potentially damaging the British beef industry into the bargain do you ?
He can't even provide a plausible explanation for it being in his system - anything but a 2 year ban will be a joke.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Arkibal wrote:If this ever happens to a British rider, I will remember this.
But fair point.
While it's not happened to a British rider (as far as I know), it did happen to a British sportsman - skiier, Alain Baxter at the Salt Lake City Olympics. He had the most certain case of accidental use I've seen. He got a short ban and lost his medal* - harsh, but I agree with it (and I think he did too).
*As a happy ending, the skiier who inherited the bronze medal gave it back to him.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Tusher wrote:Statistics are Art and not Science.
You can make figures say whatever you want them to say.
no. statistics is dead simple and clear, to a trained statistician. more often is that people misinterpret the figures, sometimes with dire consequences http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Clark.0 -
Tom Butcher wrote:You think people would support a British rider who tested positive for a minimal amout of Clen.
Yes, I think so.
Imagine Wiggo or Cav testing + for the trace AC did.0 -
Arkibal wrote:Tom Butcher wrote:You think people would support a British rider who tested positive for a minimal amout of Clen.
Yes, I think so.
Imagine Wiggo or Cav testing + for the trace AC did.
Wouldn't make a difference to me personally. Cheats can't hide behind national colours in my books.0 -
Pokerface wrote:Arkibal wrote:Tom Butcher wrote:You think people would support a British rider who tested positive for a minimal amout of Clen.
Yes, I think so.
Imagine Wiggo or Cav testing + for the trace AC did.
Wouldn't make a difference to me personally. Cheats can't hide behind national colours in my books.
I think some people are misunderstanding your earlier post about 'strict liability'.
If you have a banned substance in you without a TUE, then you get disqualified and a ban. Full stop. The only argument should be over how long the ban is (hence my point about Baxter).Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:Pokerface wrote:Arkibal wrote:Tom Butcher wrote:You think people would support a British rider who tested positive for a minimal amout of Clen.
Yes, I think so.
Imagine Wiggo or Cav testing + for the trace AC did.
Wouldn't make a difference to me personally. Cheats can't hide behind national colours in my books.
I think some people are misunderstanding your earlier post about 'strict liability'.
If you have a banned substance in you without a TUE, then you get disqualified and a ban. Full stop. The only argument should be over how long the ban is (hence my point about Baxter).
I thought my post was quite clear!
Personally I think the punishment should fit the crime, and the whole concept of strict liability rubs me the wrong way.
If you test positive for something - and can prove (somehow) without a doubt that it came from a valid source (like contaminated supplements) then I don't think you should cop a ban. But proving something like that is VERY difficult!
I've just come back from a Paralympic pre-camp and we covered this. The team doctor is giving us all certain vitamins and supplements, but they all had to be sent to a WADA lab for testing first to make sure they were clean - and then have to be given to each athlete directly. Chain of custody as it were - to make sure that there is no chance of anything going wrong.
We have been warned against buying anything over the counter. We didn't even get into the possibility of contaminated steak!0 -
Pokerface wrote:Personally I think the punishment should fit the crime, and the whole concept of strict liability rubs me the wrong way.
If you test positive for something - and can prove (somehow) without a doubt that it came from a valid source (like contaminated supplements) then I don't think you should cop a ban. But proving something like that is VERY difficult!
If you didn't have strict liability rules, can you imagine how the sales of any "accidentally contaminated" products would rocket as soon as the peloton found out?0 -
I kind of have to disagree with this. Given what the rules are, athletes are 100% responsible for what they put in their bodies, full stop. Even on the (very) remote chance that the clen was due to tainted beef, Contador still deserves a one-year ban (and being stripped of the 2010 TdF title) for being a stupid moron of epic proportions: he would eat meat bought by someone not on his team, from another country from an un-known butcher, that was then transported cross-country in the boot of a dude's car in the middle of the scorching hot summer. To be honest I'm shocked the team chef even went along with this. Let alone the team's director.Pokerface wrote:If you test positive for something - and can prove (somehow) without a doubt that it came from a valid source (like contaminated supplements) then I don't think you should cop a ban. But proving something like that is VERY difficult!0 -
I would imagine that 99% of positive results are due to the athlete doing something nefarious.
However - there is that small minority that just plain get screwed. If you think about ALL the things you take and eat over the course of a year, imagine how hard it is to ensure that every single one of them is free from ANY sort of contamination.
I'm simply saying it's a daunting proposition. It's no reflection on the present case as I think he's guilty as sin.0 -
RichN95 wrote:Arkibal wrote:If this ever happens to a British rider, I will remember this.
But fair point.
While it's not happened to a British rider (as far as I know), it did happen to a British sportsman - skiier, Alain Baxter at the Salt Lake City Olympics. He had the most certain case of accidental use I've seen. He got a short ban and lost his medal* - harsh, but I agree with it (and I think he did too).
*As a happy ending, the skiier who inherited the bronze medal gave it back to him.
I have been meaning to post something about Baxter for a while. Thanks for this I think it acuratelly provides the precedent to tell Bertie his, frankly rubbish, excuse actually means very little as a defence to the acusations made.Coach H. (Dont ask me for training advice - 'It's not about the bike')0 -
Pokerface wrote:If you test positive for something - and can prove (somehow) without a doubt that it came from a valid source (like contaminated supplements) then I don't think you should cop a ban. But proving something like that is VERY difficult!
I understand what you are getting at but very soon there would be a very healthy market for (unofficial but known) contaminated products. In fact (whilst this may be complete rubbish) I think it may have already happened in the past.Coach H. (Dont ask me for training advice - 'It's not about the bike')0 -
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/18/sport ... cling.html
Sorry if I am posting something that was already put up, important story.0 -
cajun_cyclist wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/18/sports/cycling/18cycling.html
Sorry if I am posting something that was already put up, important story.
The story (from a different source) has been posted but we'll forgive you for not reading all 87 pages to check
Scottish and British...and a bit French0 -
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ratsbeyfus wrote:
There won't be a decision before 2nd December (when the 2018 World Cup host gets chosen - Spain being a candidate). Sure it's a different sport, but they don't want anyone picking up the Spanish doping angle prior to that (although it wouldn't make any difference in reality).Twitter: @RichN950 -
Hope for FF and the Astana 1. Dodgy steak may have come from South America say some bloke who likes Contodour:
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/6436/Contador-doping-case-contaminated-meat-from-South-America.aspx0 -
ratsbeyfus wrote:Hope for FF and the Astana 1. Dodgy steak may have come from South America say some bloke who likes Contodour:
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/6436/Contador-doping-case-contaminated-meat-from-South-America.aspx
You've got to laugh, haven't you?
South American meat they've gone to the trouble of shipping half way round the world for mass export, but according to this farmer that makes it likely to land up in a village butchers a few miles from the port! What did they do, have a quick farmers market on the dock?Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
South American beef quite possibly clentaminated:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contado ... ssociation"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
*facepalm*
This is a joke - ban him.
He can dispute how he came about the Clent when he's on his ban to try and get it reduced.
That and get interpol to keep an eye on where his cash goes.....0 -
Let's see: Ramón Riestra is Spanish, is a former amateur cyclist, and is currently a cattle farmer. In Spain.
If someone like this wanted to deflect criticism of Spanish beef while also giving Contador an escape route, what do they do? Easy, just blame some other third-world country that also just happens to be competition to your more expensive home-grown beef.
Yeah, no conflict of interests here. :roll:
My favorite: 'The South Americans just bribe their way through the controls'. And of course the Spanish farmers would never dream of doing that.
And we haven't even gotten into looking at why a Spanish butcher with supply agreements already in place would drive about an hour back and forth into *France* to buy his beef.0 -
surista wrote:Let's see: Ramón Riestra is Spanish, is a former amateur cyclist, and is currently a cattle farmer. In Spain.
If someone like this wanted to deflect criticism of Spanish beef while also giving Contador an escape route, what do they do? Easy, just blame some other third-world country that also just happens to be competition to your more expensive home-grown beef.
Yeah, no conflict of interests here. :roll:
My favorite: 'The South Americans just bribe their way through the controls'. And of course the Spanish farmers would never dream of doing that.
And we haven't even gotten into looking at why a Spanish butcher with supply agreements already in place would drive about an hour back and forth into *France* to buy his beef.
Or indeed why somebody racing in *France* would get somebody to bring some meat to France from Irun rather than just popping along to St Jean from where it was imported.
Would there still be Clen in the meat after a couple of weeks at sea?___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
Spanish farmers want to probe Contador :shock: Now where's that cattle prod?
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/beef-producers-want-probe-into-contador-affair-284870 -
Pablo de la Calle, EL MUNDO, November 17 - In the devious action undertaken against Alberto Contador, confusion is increasing step by step. The leaking of malicious documents and information is purposely confusing fans and influencing members of the Competition Committee. It only takes repeating a lie often enough for it to become the truth, or so they say in the environment of the disconcerted cyclist from Madrid.
It’s necessary to have a lot of patience and not lose nerve in order to take with composure the numerous and poisonous deliveries that will show up until the closure of the case, which might occur next February. In this politics of confusion, the Pinto rider’s accusers took the lead with the publication of a report containing a supposed demonstration that the meat bought in Irun did not contain residue of clenbuterol.
But the triple Tour-winner’s counterattack has been effective and devastating. The WADA theory has been dismantled by Contador, by explaining that this report’s field work is not rigorous, because it only takes in declarations from the butcher. No scientific analyses have been carried out, insist the rider’s circle.
And the fact is, it’s impossible to do a report on a piece of meat that doesn't exist. The proof disappeared the instant the rider consumed the meat. Furthermore, everything was complicated by the faulty handling of the case by UCI. It makes no sense that an anti-doping control be carried out at the end of July and the result not known until the end of August. The result means that all investigations begin in mid-September, at the earliest, when two months have already elapsed. How many kilos of meat would the butcher have sold in the meantime?
More suspense. What does it mean that a slaughterhouse sells meat in accordance with health controls? Simply that it operates according to the law. It doesn’t mean that the totality of meat from Irun is of first quality. Last week, Bakartxo Tejería, Nationalist Basque Party spokesman, affirmed that it is certified that in Basque Country they consume meat coming from countries where cattle is fattened with clenbuterol.
Although it seems trivial, one of the most interesting elements of the WADA report is that it has been demonstrated that José Luis López Cerrón bought the meat in a shop in Irun, something that many doubted.
Contador’s alibi has foundation, and he should be granted a margin of confidence. Please, let's scorn biased rumours.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Ex-cyclist Ramón Riestra, member of the Board of Governors of ASAJA (Asociación Agraria Jóvenes Agricultores) of Asturias, exposes the hypothetical entrance into Spain of South American cattle contaminated with clenbuterol. To him, Contador is “a scapegoat.”
You’re going to tell.
I want to blow the whistle that clenbuterol-contaminated meat from South America is imported into Spain, and that Contador is only a scapegoat. It makes me angry, because he seems like a good guy, and besides, I was a cyclist.
Explain, please.
Look. The European Union signed an agreement with Mercosur, the South American customs union, to import 20 million tons of meat in three years to 27 European countries. In Spain, which is a country with a shortfall in meat, this is equivalent to a minimum of two million tons. And they have to know that in South America, fattening cattle with clenbuterol is not prohibited.
But they have to pass controls, don't they?
I’d like to see those controls. It’s very easy. They send a proper first batch and, after the controls, the bulk of the lot. Or they fix it with a bribe. I have a relative who was a health inspector and he told me that there wasn’t anything to do.
Then, you think that Contador could have eaten this meat?
It’s more than possible. Look, one of the ports where most of this meat is unloaded is Saint-Jean-de-Luz (France), a French city that’s very close to Irun (15 kilometers to be exact). It’s not strange that some butcher shop in Irun provided this meat. This is a business, and what they’re most interested in is importing to Holland and especially, to France, which after the United States has the biggest meat-processing industry in the world (ham, sausages…).
And all that export hurts the Spanish cattle farmers, right?
Naturally. We have to go through three controls a year. They take blood from all our animals. Everything has to be right, and we’re at a disadvantage to the Mercosur countries, where they have between 600 to 700 million head of beef. We told the authorities that they were headed for trouble, but they’re city people that have no idea of agriculture or ecology.
You said that you were a cyclist.
Yes, amateur. But there were a lot of open races and I got to ride a Paris-Nice with Eddy Merckx, who won it. And a lot of times with Luis Ocaña. (By Chema Bermejo, AS.com)Contador is the Greatest0 -
AS.com/November 20 - “The World Anti-Doping Agency has not contacted us in order to do the investigation on the meat that you told me about,” the Basque Country government’s Director of Public Health assured AS via it’s press office.
The institution’s spokesman labelled as “not viable” WADA’s requesting of meat from the butcher shops in Irún in order to do analysis. “We’re the only ones qualified to do these controls and we’ve been doing them regularly. It’s not to be discounted that they might have acquired the product, like any other citizen, and done their own analyses. But in any case, these analyses are not official, because they have to be done through our department,” he added.Contador is the Greatest0 -
This is all being worryingly tee'ed up for a fudge..0
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Some good articles from the Spanish media there FF. It's just the media backing-up there own against the horrible foreigners, Business as usual.
Here's the New York Times in August 2006, saying why Landis can't possibly have cheated.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/16/opinion/16iht-edeustice.2505327.html?_r=1Twitter: @RichN950
