Contador tests positive for Clenbuterol
Comments
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stevie_90210 wrote:
+lots
When the f*** did being good on a bike become synonymous with having a relevant opinion?Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:stevie_90210 wrote:
+lots
When the f*** did being good on a bike become synonymous with having a relevant opinion?
lol
chill out lads, was joking..it was Marc Madiot's quote re kimmage infact.. 0 -
Dave_1 wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:stevie_90210 wrote:
+lots
When the f*** did being good on a bike become synonymous with having a relevant opinion?
lol chill out lads, was joking..it was Marc Madiot's quote re kimmage infact..
...chilled then. ;-)My commute:
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Madiot's a genuine reformed character, it was the bust of the FDJ team, when a stash of EPO belonging to Sciandri and Gianetti in a camper van fridge forced him to confront the problem. Amazingly the sponsor said "where do we go from here, because we'll give you a second chance" and from that moment on he cleaned up the squad.
It shows people involved in the sport can change... but it took a very open minded sponsor to fund this. Most would have "reviewed their options" within weeks.0 -
Dave_1 wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:stevie_90210 wrote:
+lots
When the f*** did being good on a bike become synonymous with having a relevant opinion?
lol chill out lads, was joking..it was Marc Madiot's quote re kimmage infact..
Sorry, didn't get the reference. Consider me chilled.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Kléber wrote:Madiot's a genuine reformed character, it was the bust of the FDJ team, when a stash of EPO belonging to Sciandri and Gianetti in a camper van fridge forced him to confront the problem. Amazingly the sponsor said "where do we go from here, because we'll give you a second chance" and from that moment on he cleaned up the squad.
It shows people involved in the sport can change... but it took a very open minded sponsor to fund this. Most would have "reviewed their options" within weeks.
the madiots were still warning FDJ rider Wiggins not to talk to Kimmage as recently as 5 years ago.0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:A month since the news broke, news which had been sat on for a while previously, and we're still none the wiser as to what will happen.
Would be nice if the UCI gave us some sort of timescale of when they expect to have something concrete to say, and what they're actually doing in the meantime....
They cant win here though can they if they say somehting about an early resolution and it doesnt work out like that they get criticised if they say it will take longer than first thought they get criticised. Why noy just let it pan out the way it pans out and crticise when there is actually something to criticise about. Also what makes you so special you should be kept up to date with how an investigation intio the possible use of PEDs is going ?Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
It's not possible use though, is it MG? Both the A and B samples were positive and by the UCI's own rules, Contador should have received a two year ban because of this. Any mitigating circumstances, such as eating contaminated meat, could then be considered in an appeal and, if the appeal is successful, the ban could be rescinded or shortened.
Some of the criticism comes from the fact that the UCI seem to have one rule for some, i.e. Li Fuyu, and another for one of the sport's major riders, which shows, at best, inconsistencies in how they handle cases.0 -
andyp wrote:It's not possible use though, is it MG? Both the A and B samples were positive and by the UCI's own rules, Contador should have received a two year ban because of this. Any mitigating circumstances, such as eating contaminated meat, could then be considered in an appeal and, if the appeal is successful, the ban could be rescinded or shortened.
Some of the criticism comes from the fact that the UCI seem to have one rule for some, i.e. Li Fuyu, and another for one of the sport's major riders, which shows, at best, inconsistencies in how they handle cases.
True but as long as WADA is happy with how they're handling it then I guess I am too. It's annoying to have to wait to get closure on it but I'd rather they did it properly.
I'm not as convinced that the UCI is going to try to brush this under the carpet.Scottish and British...and a bit French0 -
Big Pat saying that he is waiting on a report from WADA before taking any action - but once he gets the report, he will act within hours. And they expect it to happen soon.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid ... pproaching0 -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roE4lclHZwU
Rubiera. Contador.An exclusive for RMC Sport Channel from October 28: Douwe de Boer, the Dutch biochemist hired by Alberto Contador to defend him following his positive test for clenbuterol in the Tour de France, asserts that the UCI has not started any proceedings against the Spanish rider.
Professor Douwe de Boer, how were you chosen to defend Contador?
The rider asked the UCI if they knew of an expert who could help him. The UCI knows me because I intervened in other similar cases, such as last winter that of the Chinese RadioShack rider Li Fuyu, who had tested positive for clenbuterol. They gave my name to Contador, who called me. I also helped Floyd Landis. I’m not afraid of working with elite athletes.
What is the basis of Contador’s defense?
In some regions of the world there are cases of clenbuterol food poisoning originating from bovine meat. The minimum which can be measured by laboratories is increasingly lower. It is thus possible to detect clenbuterol that does not originate from doping but from food poisoning.
Is the Ovtcharov case (a German table tennis player recently cleared after a clenbuterol test) similar to Contador’s?
Yes, Ovtcharov was contaminated after eating bovine meat in China. It’s a food poisoning case.
What would you answer to some experts who, like Christiane Ayotte of the Montreal laboratory, assert that it could be a doping case despite the small level found in Contador’s urine?
That cannot be excluded but nor can anyone exclude that it could originate from contaminated meat. And if there is not a 100% certainty, the athlete should not be punished.
What about the plastic residues supposedly found in some of Contador’s samples?
Officially, there are no plastic residues in Contador’s urine, it was only mentioned in The New York Times (as well as L’Equipe), but the UCI said there is no case. Contador knows nothing, and if he knows nothing, nothing can be done.
Did the UCI impose a deadline on you?
We have no information, neither I nor Contador. For the time being, it should be understood that there is no Contador case. The UCI has not started any proceedings. They are still holding an inquiry. What’s happening is very unusual. I don’t have any explanation for it.
Are you optimistic for Contador?
(He hesitates) I don’t know. I have been fighting for a long time to install a violation threshold for clenbuterol. At a certain level, there should not be any penalty.
With Li Fuyu, I was not very optimistic because the rider was not famous. In Contador’s case, it’s different, I am a bit more confident.
De Boer, an honest expert
The Dutch biochemist is not involved in his first case. Before Contador, Douwe de Boer was able to prove the good faith of the German table tennis player of Ukrainian origin, Dimitrij Ovtcharov, who tested positive for clenbuterol after a visit to China. The thesis of food poisoning convinced the German federation, which cleared the athlete on October 14.
Also hired to defend Floyd Landis, positive for testosterone during the 2006 Tour de France, the expert and the rider finally put an end to their collaboration.
“I had concluded that the French laboratory had not made any error and that its conclusions were the right ones”. An upright scientist.
(By Louis Chenaille for RMC.fr. Translated from French by Christine Kahane)Contador is the Greatest0 -
To Quote With Li Fuyu, I was not very optimistic because the rider was not famous. In Contador’s case, it’s different, I am a bit more confident.
So one rule for one rule for another he's saying?
Fuyu and Ovtcharov cases stand up better than Contador's as clenbuterol is used to inject cattle in China where as in the EU I read that out a near 30000 tests conducted no traces of clenbuterol were found in any of the cattle tested.
I can see Contador's defence being the meat was shipped in from China :roll:0 -
Gazzaputt wrote:
Fuyu and Ovtcharov cases stand up better than Contador's as clenbuterol is used to inject cattle in China where as in the EU I read that out a near 30000 tests conducted no traces of clenbuterol were found in any of the cattle tested.
Yes, but the Black Swan theory tells us that 30000 tests can't prove it's impossible. And with the animal doping ring in Tenerife recently it kind of suggests it does happen.
Of course, Berts excuse is likely a load of tosh.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Buy the wings.
It is a good and balanced interview.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Surely they can target the testing to the suppliers of the Irun butcher, no need for random screening.iainf72 wrote:Yes, but the Black Swan theory tells us that 30000 tests can't prove it's impossible. And with the animal doping ring in Tenerife recently it kind of suggests it does happen.
Of course, Berts excuse is likely a load of tosh.
I gather the Tenerife case was for bull fighting, ie not going to the food chain.0 -
Tainted meat or contaminated supplements, only one excuse would enable a 'no fault' ruling. Occam's razor would probably suggest supplement would be more likely, though.
The Li Fuyu and Contador cases are different. In the former they had one test result so couldn't rule out that a larger dose had been deliberately ingested. In the latter case there were 5 samples from consecutive days with the first two and last being clean. If the plasticiser levels are a) incorrectly reported or b) inadmissable then a successful 'no fault' ruling is way more likely0 -
JonGinge wrote:In the latter case there were 5 samples from consecutive days with the first two and last being clean.
Have the other samples been tested in Cologne?0 -
I don't know. I would have assumed they would have been (or could be retested there, although that could raise issues of whether the test samples are still pristine). Either way they have more data to go on than in the Li Fuyu caseavoidingmyphd wrote:JonGinge wrote:In the latter case there were 5 samples from consecutive days with the first two and last being clean.
Have the other samples been tested in Cologne?0 -
Moray Gub wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:A month since the news broke, news which had been sat on for a while previously, and we're still none the wiser as to what will happen.
Would be nice if the UCI gave us some sort of timescale of when they expect to have something concrete to say, and what they're actually doing in the meantime....
They cant win here though can they if they say somehting about an early resolution and it doesnt work out like that they get criticised if they say it will take longer than first thought they get criticised. Why noy just let it pan out the way it pans out and crticise when there is actually something to criticise about. Also what makes you so special you should be kept up to date with how an investigation intio the possible use of PEDs is going ?
Can´t see the problem with wanting a bit more info. McQuaid has just come out and said they're waiting on a report from WADA and will act as soon as they get it, which they expect to be soon. Cheers, that´s all I wanted.
Don't think I ever asked for special treatment, I'm just an average cycling fan, plenty of others want to know more as well. I think all cycling fans deserve to know what's going on.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
I guess they are looking to see if there is anyway that they can let AC off the hook, as it would not be good for pro cycling or the tdf. It's a headline maker across the world, no one is going the bat an eye lid about some no name domestic getting busted.
Personally cheating is cheating and should be delt with as per the rules no matter who they are.
It's about time the UCI grew a set of balls0 -
Surely they can't really let Contador keep the win?
If he get's off then, for me, the TdF id dead in the water. They found a banned substance in both samples. This is the undisputed facts - isn't it?.
If he get's off then I just feel that we will never be able to Trust the Tour. It's just about the money and the show.
I really love the Tour and look forward to it each year but if he get's off I just can't see me keeping an interest again.
I watched Contador and he never looked like he could beat Andy who always looked so much fresher - I will always have my doubts - and of course doesn't it cast doubt on his earlier successes?
Tom0 -
TomBombadil wrote:If he get's off then I just feel that we will never be able to Trust the Tour. It's just about the money and the show.
I'm going to play devils advocate and ask "Just what did you think the TDF was about
if not the money and the show?".
Of course it's about the money and the show!!!0 -
Dennisn - of course you're right..................
I Love the show and of course the money's the driver!
But I guess it's just that I feel that if the 'winner' can have two positive samples and get still keep the win then the show's become a farce.
But as a devils advocate - maybe it has always been thus......
Tom0 -
TomBombadil wrote:Dennisn - of course you're right..................
I Love the show and of course the money's the driver!
But I guess it's just that I feel that if the 'winner' can have two positive samples and get still keep the win then the show's become a farce.
But as a devils advocate - maybe it has always been thus......
Tom
I kind of look on pro cycling as entertainment, like any sport. I like going to the games, so to speak. Whether it's all on the up and up doesn't concern me much, although I like to think all things are equal, and the best man wins. I believe this is the case, most of the time, in sports and sportsmen, who compete on a lesser level than the so called pro.
Once a lot of money becomes involved(the pro's) then anything is possible and people will try just about anything to get their share. This doesn't surprise me at all. In any case I still follow the action, on the roads, in the labs, and in the courtrooms. Sometimes I get the feeling that some pro sports are sort of trying to be a bit like pro wrestling and to me that's really the end of it all as far as me paying much attention. Although wrestling still gives me a chuckle every once in a while.0 -
As Iain posted in another thread - UCI have now asked the Spanish Federation to open proceedings against Bertie:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-req ... r-contador0 -
Yeah the Spanish Fedration - about as much use as aa choclate fireguard...............
The whole thing about the UCI then passing on to the national federation is a fooking cop out by Pat McTwat.
The sooner its handled by a totally independent body (WADA or whoever ) then we can end this chardade of national bodies investigating thier own riders.
Fucking nonsense.
Just like those people who think the sun shines out of Pharmstrongs arse..................
Get with the Clen..................0 -
itisaboutthebike wrote:The whole thing about the UCI then passing on to the national federation is a fooking cop out by Pat McTwat.
Every doping case gets referred to the national federation. It's standard procedure.Twitter: @RichN950 -
"And if there is not a 100% certainty, the athlete should not be punished."
I don't get this argument from De Whatshisface. The athlete is responsible for what goes into his body. It may be theoretically possible that he ate a dodgy steak. But it's also theoretically possible (and arguably more likely) it was introduced into his system from a blood transfusion.
It's up to him to prove it was the steak not simply suggest it as a possibility.Scottish and British...and a bit French0 -
dulldave wrote:"And if there is not a 100% certainty, the athlete should not be punished."
I don't get this argument from De Whatshisface. The athlete is responsible for what goes into his body. It may be theoretically possible that he ate a dodgy steak. But it's also theoretically possible (and arguably more likely) it was introduced into his system from a blood transfusion.
It's up to him to prove it was the steak not simply suggest it as a possibility.
Actually it's even more simple than that.
Contador is found to have a banned substance in his body. He doesn't deny it. He should be given a 2 year ban. Thats what the rules say.
Then it's up to AC to lodge a appeal (or retire from cycling as he has also promised). Surely during the appeal process Astana would have a chance to produce their "receipt" that will exonerate Bertie from all wrong-doing.
I just can't wait until Astana say they have misplaced said receipt and then politely ask that they be believed that it really did exist.0 -
Yes, thats as I believe it.SpaceJunk wrote:dulldave wrote:"And if there is not a 100% certainty, the athlete should not be punished."
I don't get this argument from De Whatshisface. The athlete is responsible for what goes into his body. It may be theoretically possible that he ate a dodgy steak. But it's also theoretically possible (and arguably more likely) it was introduced into his system from a blood transfusion.
It's up to him to prove it was the steak not simply suggest it as a possibility.
Actually it's even more simple than that.
Contador is found to have a banned substance in his body. He doesn't deny it. He should be given a 2 year ban. Thats what the rules say.
Then it's up to AC to lodge a appeal (or retire from cycling as he has also promised). Surely during the appeal process Astana would have a chance to produce their "receipt" that will exonerate Bertie from all wrong-doing.
.
Lets not forget here that all the riders will have signed onto these races with the understanding that they agree with the testing policy and agree with the punishments if they are found to have banned substances in their body.
Riders also by signing on the dotted line, agree that they are responsible for any substance that finds its way into their body, end of. That includes any meat, assuming that the whole spanish meat story has some credance (which I don't believe)
They than, as you say, have the chance to appeal the ban. But if the rules for clem say its a ban any any small amount in the body, then he should be banned.
Fire up the briefs afterwards.
The UCI are currently fannying about trying to stop another case of the highest profile rider ruining their race profile. At the moment that means having one rule for Bertie, and another for anyone else caught with their pants down and a neddle stuck in their bum.Can I upgrade???0
