Contador tests positive for Clenbuterol

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Comments

  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    frenchfighter wrote:
    If Contador raced like an alien and was found at the Tour to have tested positive for something of note in proper quantities then I would have a different opinion. I'm afraid that is not the case though.

    Clenbuterol in any dose is against the rules so why say "something of note in proper quantities"? Besides, Contador does race like an alien - you are often quick to point out have he races to win throughout the season when no-one else does, doesn't this offer to you the possibility that there is a reason why he is able to perform consistently for 6 months when no-one else can?
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Hey Pokerface you still dont seem to understand.

    If he tested positive for something like CERA then I would have a different opinion. At the moment he has a miniscule trace of something minor - I am not going to infer from that that he has won everything by doping.

    And guess what, if I disagree with you it doesn't mean I have a problem.

    And who knows whether Evans is clean? Just because you want to think so and because people say so? (Before you point the finger, let it be known that I think he is clean with the same logic as any other rider)


    If Evens were to test positive, then I - like many other people - would be disappointed and probably surprised. But he has never had a whif of anything around him (to my knowledge).

    Regardless of what exactly was found in Contador's system - the fact still remains that it is there. I know you think that the clen on it's own served no benefit, so he couldn't be cheating and that his riding is therefore still considered 'pure'.

    I agree that the clen served no aid during the Tour on it's own.

    But if you discount that it came from tainted meat, but instead came from a blood transfusion, then this extra blood help adds enough benefit to discount the ride and the rider.

    If you can't do it 100% clean - it's not worthy of my respect.


    Cera would add a bigger boost, but blood doping adds enough benefit that without it he would not have won the Tour this year. Just because he wasn't busted with the needle in his arm injecting massive amounts of steroids, doesn't mean he isn't guilty.

    A positive result is a positive result. That fact seems to escape you.
  • surista
    surista Posts: 141
    DaveyL wrote:
    Never before have I seen such a breathtaking combination of naievty and arrogance.
    I've seen it before. True, the kid was six years old at the time, but still.
    "It doesn't get any easier, you just get faster"
    http://blue-eyed-samurai.com/cycling/
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    frenchfighter wrote:
    What would you guys do if I wasn't here to voice a differing opinion.

    I'm out of here...

    That's always your response when you find your position impossible to defend. I'm genuinly interested to know what substances you consider to be meaningful. Does it have to be a blood doping substance of some sort?
  • bazbadger
    bazbadger Posts: 553
    edited October 2010
    This reminds me of what Cavendish said if Ricco ever entered the peloton again. Ricco's drug fueled ascents stringing it out so bad and all.

    Something about a slap round he chops....

    But, if Ricco 'lit up the field' then hey, what's the problem! The fanatic's response?

    It's a shame to see a rider go down, but if they cheated then there is no excuse.
    Mens agitat molem
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,549
    It's not even as if Contador is an attacking rider in the traditional sense, like so many modern day riders he'll wait until the last mountain before lighting it up and has never, to the best of my knowledge, launched a meaningful attack from a long way out.
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    Pokerface wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Hey Pokerface you still dont seem to understand.

    If he tested positive for something like CERA then I would have a different opinion. At the moment he has a miniscule trace of something minor - I am not going to infer from that that he has won everything by doping.

    And guess what, if I disagree with you it doesn't mean I have a problem.

    And who knows whether Evans is clean? Just because you want to think so and because people say so? (Before you point the finger, let it be known that I think he is clean with the same logic as any other rider)


    If Evens were to test positive, then I - like many other people - would be disappointed and probably surprised. But he has never had a whif of anything around him (to my knowledge).

    Regardless of what exactly was found in Contador's system - the fact still remains that it is there. I know you think that the clen on it's own served no benefit, so he couldn't be cheating and that his riding is therefore still considered 'pure'.

    I agree that the clen served no aid during the Tour on it's own.

    But if you discount that it came from tainted meat, but instead came from a blood transfusion, then this extra blood help adds enough benefit to discount the ride and the rider.

    If you can't do it 100% clean - it's not worthy of my respect.


    Cera would add a bigger boost, but blood doping adds enough benefit that without it he would not have won the Tour this year. Just because he wasn't busted with the needle in his arm injecting massive amounts of steroids, doesn't mean he isn't guilty.

    A positive result is a positive result. That fact seems to escape you.

    Evans rode for T-Mobile and still came out clean which I think says a lot for the rider and person that he is.

    FF how do we not know that Clenbuterol gives a rider more of a boost than CERA ? What drugs are on YOUR banned and allowed list ? Up till a few weeks ago I hadn't even heard of Clenbuterol
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    andyp wrote:
    It's not even as if Contador is an attacking rider in the traditional sense, like so many modern day riders he'll wait until the last mountain before lighting it up and has never, to the best of my knowledge, launched a meaningful attack from a long way out.

    Indeed - He uses classic strawberry jam for blood attacks. 20 minutes of all out effort.

    FF could do with watching a few Tour's from before blood doping became a big thing and see how different it was. I remember Roche attacking on a valley road in 87 to try and get one over on Delgado
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    iainf72 wrote:
    andyp wrote:
    It's not even as if Contador is an attacking rider in the traditional sense, like so many modern day riders he'll wait until the last mountain before lighting it up and has never, to the best of my knowledge, launched a meaningful attack from a long way out.

    Indeed - He uses classic strawberry jam for blood attacks. 20 minutes of all out effort.

    FF could do with watching a few Tour's from before blood doping became a big thing and see how different it was. I remember Roche attacking on a valley road in 87 to try and get one over on Delgado

    The graphics on The High Life when the peloton crest the Peyresourde are quite instructive too... Average speed of 16kph.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    ShinyHelmut wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    If he goes, stage racing will be hugely worse off. We will have to try and cheer for someone as exciting as Wiggins or Menchov or Andy.

    Has it occurred to you that the riders you slate for being boring might be able to ride with a little more panache if the playing field was level.

    ummm. Vienna Denis and Andy my brother just paid for training plans honest guv Schleck?

    In that list I would say

    Andy: Exciting, but not trustworthy - a bit like Bertie, but without the positive. Yet.
    Bradley: Probably clean but dull
    Denis: Dull and dirty
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • Monty Zoncolan
    Monty Zoncolan Posts: 341
    Pokerface wrote:
    It's a shame that many of these 'great' attacking riders with pananche and such turn out to be tooled up.


    Frenchfighter - herein lies your problem - you like this type of ride and rider, and don't seem to mind that the source of their jump is artificial. Most of us also like this type of ride and rider - but when it inevitably turns out to be dope-fuelled, we lose respect for the rider.

    Personally, I enjoy watching the suffering rides of someone like Evans - still up there with the leaders but not floating up the mountain like he is made of air. It's a ride that I can believe is genuine but is still interesting to watch.

    Great post in my very humble opinion.

    Pro cycling to me is Evans and Basso in a war of attrition on the Zoncolan in this year's Giro. Probably some people's idea of 'unexciting' but to me a thrilling contest.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    frenchfighter wrote:
    If Contador raced like an alien and was found at the Tour to have tested positive for something of note in proper quantities then I would have a different opinion. I'm afraid that is not the case though.


    So, what about your arch enemy LA. He NEVER tested positive for anything of note let alone in proper quantities. That proves he's an alien? Right? :roll: :roll:
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    dennisn wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    If Contador raced like an alien and was found at the Tour to have tested positive for something of note in proper quantities then I would have a different opinion. I'm afraid that is not the case though.


    So, what about your arch enemy LA. He NEVER tested positive for anything of note let alone in proper quantities. That proves he's an alien? Right? :roll: :roll:


    Oh crap, now you're going to wake the BikingBernie dragon. So to summarize before the graph arrives:

    LA tested positve for a steroid in 99, stated he had zero TUE's and then promptly produced one later for a non existent saddle sore.

    His samples from 99 or 00 tested positive for EPO, but only in a scientifically sound and not legally sound test. So if you have to think he was goofed up at least in those years.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • mfin
    mfin Posts: 6,729
    FF says its small traces of something minor, but, if he had used it after the Dauph to shed a couple of Kgs ready for the TDF and the small traces are from blood trans... even if you negate all the effects any blood trans then he could have benefitted from losing a couple of Kgs of fat aaaand potentially some muscle build. Going up those climbs a couple of kgs can make the difference of a few seconds surely??? And seconds is all he won by.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Timoid. wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    If Contador raced like an alien and was found at the Tour to have tested positive for something of note in proper quantities then I would have a different opinion. I'm afraid that is not the case though.


    So, what about your arch enemy LA. He NEVER tested positive for anything of note let alone in proper quantities. That proves he's an alien? Right? :roll: :roll:


    Oh crap, now you're going to wake the BikingBernie dragon. So to summarize before the graph arrives:

    LA tested positve for a steroid in 99, stated he had zero TUE's and then promptly produced one later for a non existent saddle sore.

    His samples from 99 or 00 tested positive for EPO, but only in a scientifically sound and not legally sound test. So if you have to think he was goofed up at least in those years.


    Sorry to all for possibly waking up BB. Just wasn't thinking. :oops: :oops:
    Although the "chart / graph" hasn't been seen in quite a while and we all need to be reminded of the "horror" every once in a while.
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    andyp wrote:
    It's not even as if Contador is an attacking rider in the traditional sense, like so many modern day riders he'll wait until the last mountain before lighting it up and has never, to the best of my knowledge, launched a meaningful attack from a long way out.

    He did attack from a long way out in the 2009 Paris Nice ultimately it was fruitless but it was meaningful at the time.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • shinyhelmut
    shinyhelmut Posts: 1,364
    Timoid. wrote:
    ShinyHelmut wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    If he goes, stage racing will be hugely worse off. We will have to try and cheer for someone as exciting as Wiggins or Menchov or Andy.

    Has it occurred to you that the riders you slate for being boring might be able to ride with a little more panache if the playing field was level.

    ummm. Vienna Denis and Andy my brother just paid for training plans honest guv Schleck?

    In that list I would say

    Andy: Exciting, but not trustworthy - a bit like Bertie, but without the positive. Yet.
    Bradley: Probably clean but dull
    Denis: Dull and dirty

    You're being harsh on Menchov. I agree with the dirty but anyone who can fall off their bike while attacking uphill is certainly entertaining;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl4eCCa1pJQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    frenchfighter wrote:
    If Contador raced like an alien and was found at the Tour to have tested positive for something of note in proper quantities then I would have a different opinion. I'm afraid that is not the case though.


    FF - Question for you (and you alone):

    Do you think it's OK if he cheated just a little bit? Does it have to be something massive (like Cera) before you changer your opinion?
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    Are either of the schleks okay to trust given the obvious intent of Frank Schlek to dope with Fuentes help-caught sending hefty sums of cash to EF. This kind of attempted doping will not have helped Bert to trust the system if he was clean. Then you have LA...does he make you believe in the rules...go further down, Basso...you can likely see Bert's very thought process, no? No wonder he decided that lot ain't worth trusting
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • flanners1
    flanners1 Posts: 916
    Watching my HD Box from 2009 TdF:

    2009 Brailsford Interview on ITV4 with Matt Rendall in Monaco:

    Contador is very unsettled what would you say about having Alberto Contador on the team?

    Brailsford 'NO'
    End of, nada.

    a Prophet, possibly common knowledge then?
    Colnago C60 SRAM eTap, Colnago C40, Milani 107E, BMC Pro Machine, Trek Madone, Viner Gladius,
    Bizango 29er
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    I bet if you played that back to Brailsford he'd deny he ever said it.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,549
    Moray Gub wrote:
    He did attack from a long way out in the 2009 Paris Nice ultimately it was fruitless but it was meaningful at the time.

    I did think about that one stage as an example, but did he really launch a meaningful attack then? He was in the race lead and was responding to a lot of attacks during the last 40 kms but my recollection is that he never really launched one himself. I'm happy to be corrected.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    It all seems to be an Italian conspiracy

    http://www.tuttobiciweb.it/index.php?pa ... 33497&tp=n

    Everyone who's looking at his case is Italian
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    It appears to be that Frenchie is going through the classic five stages of grief

    1. DENIAL
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Contador is the most high profile, most successful and highest paid cyclist in the World at the moment with a great future ahead of him. For him to take a minute amount of this drug, the downsides are HUGE the upside is TINY. Common sense says that he wouldn't want or need to dope.

    2. ANGER
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Typically dont bother replying to you as it isnt worth it. For the sake of it as you obviously enjoy banging the same drum without reading the comments. Yeah he has a substance which needn't been there in the first place, I am not bothered if he is banned etc etc etc,

    3. BARGAINING
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Its funny, with some of you I think you would be happy to have all the exciting riders gone from the sport.

    If he goes, stage racing will be hugely worse off. We will have to try and cheer for someone as exciting as Wiggins or Menchov or Andy. I see no champions who transcend the levels.

    Next up - Depression, then acceptance.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    andyp wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    He did attack from a long way out in the 2009 Paris Nice ultimately it was fruitless but it was meaningful at the time.

    I did think about that one stage as an example, but did he really launch a meaningful attack then? He was in the race lead and was responding to a lot of attacks during the last 40 kms but my recollection is that he never really launched one himself. I'm happy to be corrected.

    The following day, to try to reclaim the lead.
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    RichN95 wrote:
    It appears to be that Frenchie is going through the classic five stages of grief

    1. DENIAL
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Contador is the most high profile, most successful and highest paid cyclist in the World at the moment with a great future ahead of him. For him to take a minute amount of this drug, the downsides are HUGE the upside is TINY. Common sense says that he wouldn't want or need to dope.

    2. ANGER
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Typically dont bother replying to you as it isnt worth it. For the sake of it as you obviously enjoy banging the same drum without reading the comments. Yeah he has a substance which needn't been there in the first place, I am not bothered if he is banned etc etc etc,

    3. BARGAINING
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Its funny, with some of you I think you would be happy to have all the exciting riders gone from the sport.

    If he goes, stage racing will be hugely worse off. We will have to try and cheer for someone as exciting as Wiggins or Menchov or Andy. I see no champions who transcend the levels.

    Next up - Depression, then acceptance.

    I think the 'acceptance' stage will be rapidly followed with a LONG stage of irrational outbursts, and posts punctuated with CAPITAL letters.

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    Contador would be crazy to dope says his lawyer! Calm down FF - lawyers are paid to come up with ingenious/stupid arguments.

    m_42acb9336f4543c9be6e407d97c02243.jpg
    http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/14102010/58/contador-crazy-dope.html

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • itisaboutthebike
    itisaboutthebike Posts: 1,120
    Next up - Depression, then acceptance.

    then - lonely hotel room, cocaine.....................................
  • itisaboutthebike
    itisaboutthebike Posts: 1,120
    Backdoor Contador is fooked...................WADA is gonna get him.
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    So... the riders are going to delay the start of the Tour of Lombardy this weekend by 10 minutes as a protest to comments by Torri that they are all dopers.

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rider-p ... f-lombardy


    Pip Gilbert says they are doing it to show the world that Torri's statement is unfounded.

    Here's a thought: maybe they should all try riding clean instead of showing up late. :roll:

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