Contador tests positive for Clenbuterol

shinyhelmut

mfin wrote:

Slightly off topic ...but does anyone have a link to the article where a guy took HGH and EPO etc to document what they did for his riding, Ive lost my link to that and wanted to read it again ??? ...sure somebody will know what I mean from that vague desc.

This seems to be a complete transcript;

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/aas-epo-article-outside-magazine-552736.html

disgruntledgoat

And further in the Donkey to Racehorse stakes... Isidro Nozal, remember him? Pipped to the Vuelta in teh last few days by Roberto Heras, never heard from again.

Aitor Gonzalez: Won the Vuelta, ditto.

sherer

disgruntledgoat wrote:

And further in the Donkey to Racehorse stakes... Isidro Nozal, remember him? Pipped to the Vuelta in teh last few days by Roberto Heras, never heard from again.

Aitor Gonzalez: Won the Vuelta, ditto.

Didn't Nozal get done for drugs ?

calvjones

sherer wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

And further in the Donkey to Racehorse stakes... Isidro Nozal, remember him? Pipped to the Vuelta in teh last few days by Roberto Heras, never heard from again.

Aitor Gonzalez: Won the Vuelta, ditto.

Didn't Nozal get done for drugs ?

He virtually never wasn't getttng done for drugs.

sherer

calvjones wrote:

sherer wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

And further in the Donkey to Racehorse stakes... Isidro Nozal, remember him? Pipped to the Vuelta in teh last few days by Roberto Heras, never heard from again.

Aitor Gonzalez: Won the Vuelta, ditto.

Didn't Nozal get done for drugs ?

He virtually never wasn't getttng done for drugs.

His wiki page says he was caught for CERA in the Tour of Portugal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isidro_Nozal

disgruntledgoat

Sorta proving my point... Donkey-racehorse-slightly elevated donkey-busted

sherer

or look at Jalabert, started as a one day racer and sprinter and then went on to get two KOMs in the Tour

Bronzie

mfin wrote:

Slightly off topic ...but does anyone have a link to the article where a guy took HGH and EPO etc to document what they did for his riding, Ive lost my link to that and wanted to read it again ??? ...sure somebody will know what I mean from that vague desc.

http://outsideonline.com/outside/bodywo ... est_1.html

mfin

ShinyHelmut wrote:

mfin wrote:

Slightly off topic ...but does anyone have a link to the article where a guy took HGH and EPO etc to document what they did for his riding, Ive lost my link to that and wanted to read it again ??? ...sure somebody will know what I mean from that vague desc.

This seems to be a complete transcript;

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/aas-epo-article-outside-magazine-552736.html

...ah, that's it , thanks!!!

** well worth a read for anyone interested in doping ...hearing someone saying first hand what the effect of a few PEDs have on their cycling, was done for research purposes, not an account of a doping pro **

mididoctors

frenchfighter wrote:

ShinyHelmut wrote:

You can't really believe the drugs don't give you even a teeny little help in the GC?

What do they help with then FF?

Re-read. Drugs give you an advantage. But they will never turn an average rider into a GT winner, especially when they will have to try and beat the system in the process.

we just dont know is the answer

I suspect the same guys would be up there but then again?

pitchshifter

mididoctors wrote:

we just dont know is the answer

I suspect the same guys would be up there but then again?

^Ultimately what we would all love to find out, and watch!

pb21

pitchshifter wrote:

mididoctors wrote:

we just dont know is the answer

I suspect the same guys would be up there but then again?

^Ultimately what we would all love to find out, and watch!

If it was completely clean the racing and tactics would be different and could lead to all kinds of riders coming into contention.

I think riders like Sylvain Chavanel (who I consider to be clean) would be consistently riding in the top ten or even for the podium in the GTs if the sport was completely clean.

calvjones

sherer wrote:

calvjones wrote:

sherer wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

And further in the Donkey to Racehorse stakes... Isidro Nozal, remember him? Pipped to the Vuelta in teh last few days by Roberto Heras, never heard from again.

Aitor Gonzalez: Won the Vuelta, ditto.

Didn't Nozal get done for drugs ?

He virtually never wasn't getttng done for drugs.

His wiki page says he was caught for CERA in the Tour of Portugal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isidro_Nozal

Yeah that was after his original bust in Spain tho

sherer

pb21 wrote:

pitchshifter wrote:

mididoctors wrote:

we just dont know is the answer

I suspect the same guys would be up there but then again?

^Ultimately what we would all love to find out, and watch!

If it was completely clean the racing and tactics would be different and could lead to all kinds of riders coming into contention.

I think riders like Sylvain Chavanel (who I consider to be clean) would be consistently riding in the top ten or even for the podium in the GTs if the sport was completely clean.

Would be great to watch and I think we would see more riders having off days.

Pross

Tom Butcher wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

No GC guy comes close to him in terms of season long excitement, panache and talent. It will be a sore loss.

I think you are exaggerating a bit here - when it comes to his main target races I wouldn't say he rides with particular panache. When he's clearly been the strongest rider he attacks - when he's been in doubt he marks his opponents. Sensible riding maybe but not the kind of cavalier that lights up the race.

Leaving aside whether he'll keep the win - did he ride with more panache than Andy Schleck at this year's TdF ?

+1 - yes, he can be quite aggressive when he needs to be but he's not in the mould of someone like Pantani or Chiappucci who would attack for the sake of it. Fortunately this is Bike Radar and there are no cynics but if there were they may suggest that this is because modern testing means that programmes now have to be a bit more subtle than they were in the Italians' days

surista

FF, please - you're going beyond pathetic here. AC was never a particularly interesting or fun rider to watch. He could ride away from everybody when he was strong, but now it looks like it was the drugs talking. When he didn't have the goods he simply marked time. Note he wouldn't have won this year's TdF if he hadn't broken the unwritten rule of not attacking Andy during his mechanical. Worse, he then blatently lied about it afterwards; his only saving grace was his youtube apology so I call that a wash.

But anyway - I suspect Contador wasn't even all that popular among his teammates - note that all the Astana riders from the 2009 TdF defected to Armstrong's team in 2010, and for that to happen, AC had to have been a serious dickwad since we know that LA is hardly the kind of guy that reads How to Win Friends books.

FF, I think you'd better just throw in the towel: Even the bookies have seen the writing on the wall:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/danish- ... -2010-tour

frenchfighter

Whatever you say he is more aggressive and exciting than the majority of other GC candidates. Maybe you dont watch the early season races - not many people do, but you will note that he gives it some everytime.

Talking about him as passive etc - I cant imagine what how you would describe the others!

I have read from his trainer (? maybe), the guy who worked with Pantani, that Contador goes in for less races as he cannot help but go for the wins and ride at a high level, which takes its toll eventually for the really big goals.

And whatever he is doing, it is obviously successful as his palmares over a long period and consistently crushes pretty much every stage racer currently racing.

Tom, please elaborate on the stage racer of the moment that lights up the race?

Regarding the Tour, Andy rode aggressively and was exciting for sure, more so than Contador. It was for him to beat Contador and importantly, Contador was definitely off his usual pace (by what he has said, what others have said and what is clear from watching him). Which as an aside is funny because had he been doping he wouldn't have been hurting so much.

frenchfighter

surista as I have said before, don't bother talking to me. I have not a care in the World what you think. Furthermore you haven't impressed with your comments up to now and they demonstrate someone who doesn't know a huge amount about cycling, who doesn't follow it all year round and isn't abrest of all the information and opinions going round (which is fine, except when you are vocal and off). I could reply and easily knock what you say under but I am above the baiting of myself. That was a lot more common before, but other forum members understood that they are playing a futile game trying to goad me. I will not bother to read any of you posts.

surista

frenchfighter wrote:

**hand over ears Blah blah blah I can't hear you blah blah blah

Whatever. :P

sherer

surista wrote:

But anyway - I suspect Contador wasn't even all that popular among his teammates - note that all the Astana riders from the 2009 TdF defected to Armstrong's team in 2010, and for that to happen, AC had to have been a serious dickwad since we know that LA is hardly the kind of guy that reads How to Win Friends books.

FF, I think you'd better just throw in the towel: Even the bookies have seen the writing on the wall:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/danish- ... -2010-tour

Think we can ignore the team thing as most of those riders were Bruyneel riders all the way and only ended up on Astana when JB took over the running and took his riders with him. When he started Radioshack he took those riders back with him.

The trouble with cycling is we will never know if Andy was only closer to Contador this year because of him taking different drugs or something new and not done before. Same goes for most of the top 20, maybe the real winner was the lantern rouge.

afx237vi

Has this thread beaten the "Floyd, he wrote us a letter" thread yet?

iainf72

surista wrote:

But anyway - I suspect Contador wasn't even all that popular among his teammates - note that all the Astana riders from the 2009 TdF defected to Armstrong's team in 2010, and for that to happen, AC had to have been a serious dickwad since we know that LA is hardly the kind of guy that reads How to Win Friends books.

Actually, Alberto is liked by most of the peloton from what I've heard. Even the BBox boss said something similar a few days ago with the "unfortunately he's Spanish"

With Astana / Shack it was pretty much a case of Bertie couldn't offer them too much. Armstrong had a team, with funding etc. Contador didnt even know where he was going to be riding.

Pross

Whatever you say he is more aggressive and exciting than the majority of other GC candidates. Maybe you dont watch the early season races - not many people do, but you will note that he gives it some everytime

Yes, that's true but if - as is appearing more and more likely - he is shown to have been doping then maybe it is more a case that the clean riders just can't perform from March until August racing like a true champion so they have to pick and choose when they go for it. Alternatively are you saying that we ought to allow dopers to race as the racing is better? From the You Tube footage on the other thread there is definately a case for that if you decide to ignore the risks to riders health from doping. On balance I'd rather settle for boring racing although I also think that with everyone clean the most naturally talented riders could be equally entertaining with the added bonus that they could fall apart at any time.

surista

+1. I don't think cleaner riders would make for more boring races at all. Some of the most exciting races I've seen have been at amateur events where the level obviously isn't as high, but the passion and the drama is 100% real.

SunWuKong

If there was an absence of EPO and blood doping in the peleton I reckon we would end up seeing proper climbers again.

bazbadger

frenchfighter wrote:

surista as I have said before, don't bother talking to me. I have not a care in the World what you think. Furthermore you haven't impressed with your comments up to now and they demonstrate someone who doesn't know a huge amount about cycling, who doesn't follow it all year round and isn't abrest of all the information and opinions going round (which is fine, except when you are vocal and off). I could reply and easily knock what you say under but I am above the baiting of myself. That was a lot more common before, but other forum members understood that they are playing a futile game trying to goad me. I will not bother to read any of you posts.

You need to awarded a http://oo00.eu/

frenchfighter

Pross wrote:

Whatever you say he is more aggressive and exciting than the majority of other GC candidates. Maybe you dont watch the early season races - not many people do, but you will note that he gives it some everytime

Yes, that's true but if - as is appearing more and more likely - he is shown to have been doping then maybe it is more a case that the clean riders just can't perform from March until August racing like a true champion so they have to pick and choose when they go for it. Alternatively are you saying that we ought to allow dopers to race as the racing is better? From the You Tube footage on the other thread there is definitely a case for that if you decide to ignore the risks to riders health from doping. On balance I'd rather settle for boring racing although I also think that with everyone clean the most naturally talented riders could be equally entertaining with the added bonus that they could fall apart at any time.

For your first point yes I guess that is true if you assume Contador is full on doping which I certainly dont.

That Riis is just ridiculous and miles apart from recent years. Even when Contador attacks, or other GC riders, the gaps they open are not mostly huge.

surista

http://www.digibet.info/topnewsgbtease/ ... er_end.php

Officials have also said that contaminated meat is an unlikely explanation. In Spain some 19,431 tests on meat in 2008 and 2009 failed to provide a single clenbuterol result, officials of the health and consumer board of the European Union said.

"It is not impossible, but it is unlikely. My opinion is that it is a made-up story," a specialist for food-poisoning from the Coimbra university, Fernando Ramos said.

Incidentally - did anyone remember this? David Walsh called out Contador as a doper back in 2007! <http://www.macleans.ca/canada/features/article.jsp?content=20070727_150415_8508&gt;

In a new interview with Macleans.ca, David Walsh, author of From Lance to Landis: Inside the American Doping Controversy at the Tour de France and chief sportswriter for The Sunday Times, says he's been following the Tour, and isn't sad to see Vinokourov and Rasmussen shown the door.

DW: Why is it sad? They’re cheating. It’s sad that they cheat, but it’s good news when they get caught. What is sad is that the guy who’s wearing the yellow jersey now, Alberto Contador, is definitely cheating.

Walsh says he's sure that even the riders still in the race are cheating because they climbed the Col d'Aubisque “faster than Lance Armstrong ever went up it.”

Walsh, an outspoken critic of Armstrong, believes the teams that are trying to compete clean are “getting screwed, as they have been for the last 15 years.” He briefly discusses how riders get around positives by carefully scheduling drug use, transfusions, and hormones to minimize the chance of being caught.

sherer

surista wrote:

http://www.digibet.info/topnewsgbtease/00_20101012125122_Tour_winner_Contador_mulls_over_career_end.php

Officials have also said that contaminated meat is an unlikely explanation. In Spain some 19,431 tests on meat in 2008 and 2009 failed to provide a single clenbuterol result, officials of the health and consumer board of the European Union said.

"It is not impossible, but it is unlikely. My opinion is that it is a made-up story," a specialist for food-poisoning from the Coimbra university, Fernando Ramos said.

Incidentally - did anyone remember this? David Walsh called out Contador as a doper back in 2007! <http://www.macleans.ca/canada/features/article.jsp?content=20070727_150415_8508&gt;

In a new interview with Macleans.ca, David Walsh, author of From Lance to Landis: Inside the American Doping Controversy at the Tour de France and chief sportswriter for The Sunday Times, says he's been following the Tour, and isn't sad to see Vinokourov and Rasmussen shown the door.

DW: Why is it sad? They’re cheating. It’s sad that they cheat, but it’s good news when they get caught. What is sad is that the guy who’s wearing the yellow jersey now, Alberto Contador, is definitely cheating.

Walsh says he's sure that even the riders still in the race are cheating because they climbed the Col d'Aubisque “faster than Lance Armstrong ever went up it.”

Walsh, an outspoken critic of Armstrong, believes the teams that are trying to compete clean are “getting screwed, as they have been for the last 15 years.” He briefly discusses how riders get around positives by carefully scheduling drug use, transfusions, and hormones to minimize the chance of being caught.

Thanks for the info there. I wonder where those 2008 and 2009 meat samples went though. Don't forget the Cologne lab was a super lab that managed to pick up very very low samples.

Not sure if I agree with the logic of Walsh there. They climb the mountains quicker than they did in 09 and we know they used drugs then too.

surista

Sherer, good question on the labs -although logically I'd have to assume that the labs would be able to detect clenbuterol levels in the meat sufficient to result in positive result levels in the second-hand source (i.e., the human).

Walsh's logic is a bit sketchy - 'if they're going faster they must be doping' - but it looks like he's been proven right after catching a lot of flack IIRC back when he made those comments.