TdF stage 19 *spoiler*

stagehopper

Menchov not falling on stage 2 will forvever be known as the Divine Miracle of Stockeu. In the future pilgrims will flock to the shrine which will inevitably be built to celebrate this celestial intervention. Probably end up rivalling Fatima and Lourdes.

mididoctors

Rokkala wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Why is it some people managed to not fall on the Spa stage? ie, the good bike handlers.

Also, on the drop chain stage, I don't believe Bertie pushed it as hard as he could've / shouldve.

Anyway, Andy Schleck said they should've waited for Armstrong when he blew up, so he probably thinks races should be decided by drawing straws

When did Menchov become a member of the 'good bike handler' club? :shock:

when they stayed upright compared to guys on the deck?

at that moment in the race they were better

rokkala

mididoctors wrote:

Rokkala wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Why is it some people managed to not fall on the Spa stage? ie, the good bike handlers.

Also, on the drop chain stage, I don't believe Bertie pushed it as hard as he could've / shouldve.

Anyway, Andy Schleck said they should've waited for Armstrong when he blew up, so he probably thinks races should be decided by drawing straws

When did Menchov become a member of the 'good bike handler' club? :shock:

when they stayed upright compared to guys on the deck?

at that moment in the race they were better

One swallow doesn't make a summer...

Never said anything about 'at that moment in the race'. Generally speaking.

Besides, if there was actually oil across the roads down there, who stayed up and who went down is more luck than judgement or skill anyway.

mroli

plectrum wrote:

Gave 0 support to Leipheimer and generally didn't think about either his team or other riders.

Haven't Radioshack won the team event?

pb21

Anyone surprised by Contadors drop in TT prowess since last year?

rick_chasey

pb21 wrote:

Anyone surprised by Contadors drop in TT prowess since last year?

Not really. I've been saying I though Andy only needed a minute.

Contador's been about the same % slower in the TT as he has on the climbs, roughly.

pb21

Rick Chasey wrote:

pb21 wrote:

Anyone surprised by Contadors drop in TT prowess since last year?

Not really. I've been saying I though Andy only needed a minute.

Contador's been about the same % slower in the TT as he has on the climbs, roughly.

True. The days of Contador beating Cancellara in 40-50k TTs seem to be over?!

rick_chasey

pb21 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

pb21 wrote:

Anyone surprised by Contadors drop in TT prowess since last year?

Not really. I've been saying I though Andy only needed a minute.

Contador's been about the same % slower in the TT as he has on the climbs, roughly.

True. The days of Contador beating Cancellara in 40-50k TTs seem to be over?!

Who knows.

He might be back to his 2009 form next year.

I wouldn't be surprised if Contador had a smaller calendar next year, probably missing out the trips the Ardennes.

mididoctors

pb21 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

pb21 wrote:

Anyone surprised by Contadors drop in TT prowess since last year?

Not really. I've been saying I though Andy only needed a minute.

Contador's been about the same % slower in the TT as he has on the climbs, roughly.

True. The days of Contador beating Cancellara in 40-50k TTs seem to be over?!

it has been suggested late wind on the stage distorted the time differences

OTOH rode a bit of a shocker in the dauphin didn't he ?

moray_gub

plectrum wrote:

paulcuthbert wrote:

Don't forget he got beaten by a few older/non-GC guys in the Prologue..

I don't realy care that Lance did well in the prologue as he rode like an absolute loser for the tour as soon as he was out of contention. Gave 0 support to Leipheimer and generally didn't think about either his team or other riders.

Two points here 1) i reckon he was unable to help Levi much
2) i must be missing something here but why should he concern himself with other riders ?

moray_gub

iainf72 wrote:

Why is it some people managed to not fall on the Spa stage? ie, the good bike handlers.

/quote]

By that statement you are more or less saying good bike handlers do not crash, which as we all know is nonsense.

plectrum

iainf72 wrote:

Why is it some people managed to not fall on the Spa stage? ie, the good bike handlers.

Also, on the drop chain stage, I don't believe Bertie pushed it as hard as he could've / shouldve.

Anyway, Andy Schleck said they should've waited for Armstrong when he blew up, so he probably thinks races should be decided by drawing straws

Were the others behind or infront of the bike which crashed spilling oil over the road? Did some riders see others slip on the oil and slow down or walk through that patch? Who knows. All we know is that it was so irregular that the entire peleton waited at the end and agreed at the time with Cancellara expect a couple of sprinters.

moray_gub

pb21 wrote:

Anyone surprised by Contadors drop in TT prowess since last year?

Been in keeping with his Tour in general and large parts of his season , if ever Contador was beatable it was this year.

plectrum

mroli wrote:

plectrum wrote:

Gave 0 support to Leipheimer and generally didn't think about either his team or other riders.

Haven't Radioshack won the team event?

Not through his riding for a majority of the Tour. He rode with one thing in mind, lose enough time so that when I go for a breakaway the peleton will let me go. AS shown this is what happened but he couldn't finish it off.

moray_gub

iainf72 wrote:

Why is it some people managed to not fall on the Spa stage? ie, the good bike handlers.

By that statement you are more or less saying good bike handlers do not crash, which as we all know is nonsense.

plectrum

Moray Gub wrote:

plectrum wrote:

paulcuthbert wrote:

Don't forget he got beaten by a few older/non-GC guys in the Prologue..

I don't realy care that Lance did well in the prologue as he rode like an absolute loser for the tour as soon as he was out of contention. Gave 0 support to Leipheimer and generally didn't think about either his team or other riders.

Two points here 1) i reckon he was unable to help Levi much
2) i must be missing something here but why should he concern himself with other riders ?

Not sure about point 1 as if it was the other way around Lance would have Levi with him on the ascents with a mountain domestique.
Point 2 - of course, the whole concept of not being init completely for yourself is lost on Lance!

blazing_saddles

Moray Gub wrote:

plectrum wrote:

paulcuthbert wrote:

Don't forget he got beaten by a few older/non-GC guys in the Prologue..

I don't realy care that Lance did well in the prologue as he rode like an absolute loser for the tour as soon as he was out of contention. Gave 0 support to Leipheimer and generally didn't think about either his team or other riders.

Two points here 1) i reckon he was unable to help Levi much
2) i must be missing something here but why should he concern himself with other riders ?

I would imagine, plectrum is taking about the team classification competition.
FWIW, I thought Lance did this job, in that respect on the Tourmalet, when Levi lost a packet.
He clearly saw the problem and dealt with it, finishing within 4 minutes of Schleck and Contador.

disgruntledgoat

Moray Gub wrote:

pb21 wrote:

Anyone surprised by Contadors drop in TT prowess since last year?

Been in keeping with his Tour in general and large parts of his season , if ever Contador was beatable it was this year.

Plus that TT did have a 7km climb in the middle of it...

FJS

Wow, so what happened here? Just came back home after following the first hour with Cancellara/Martin et al. I assume the wind must have troubled all those starting late? If that's the case cracking TT by Menchov!

moray_gub

plectrum wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

plectrum wrote:

paulcuthbert wrote:

Don't forget he got beaten by a few older/non-GC guys in the Prologue..

I don't realy care that Lance did well in the prologue as he rode like an absolute loser for the tour as soon as he was out of contention. Gave 0 support to Leipheimer and generally didn't think about either his team or other riders.

Two points here 1) i reckon he was unable to help Levi much
2) i must be missing something here but why should he concern himself with other riders ?

Not sure about point 1 as if it was the other way around Lance would have Levi with him on the ascents with a mountain domestique.
Point 2 - of course, the whole concept of not being init completely for yourself is lost on Lance!

You havent answered my point regarding other riders , why should Lance concern himself with other riders ?

moray_gub

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

plectrum wrote:

paulcuthbert wrote:

Don't forget he got beaten by a few older/non-GC guys in the Prologue..

I don't realy care that Lance did well in the prologue as he rode like an absolute loser for the tour as soon as he was out of contention. Gave 0 support to Leipheimer and generally didn't think about either his team or other riders.

Two points here 1) i reckon he was unable to help Levi much
2) i must be missing something here but why should he concern himself with other riders ?

I would imagine, plectrum is taking about the team classification competition.
FWIW, I thought Lance did this job, in that respect on the Tourmalet, when Levi lost a packet.
He clearly saw the problem and dealt with it, finishing within 4 minutes of Schleck and Contador.

Nope he said the following

"generally didn't think about either his team or other riders"

So we have two seperate things here his team and "other riders" i would like to know why LA or anybody for that matter should concern himself with other riders.

Doobz

I have never seen AC look so finished before.

mididoctors

Rokkala wrote:

Never said anything about 'at that moment in the race'.

.

didn't say you did :P

the internets

plectrum

Moray Gub

Sorry I meant his team as a whole or the other riders in his team as individual.

i.e. I really didnt see him ride particularly for the GC team and I certainly didn't see him ride for Levi, Kloden or Horner.

plectrum

Blazing Saddles wrote:

I would imagine, plectrum is taking about the team classification competition.
FWIW, I thought Lance did this job, in that respect on the Tourmalet, when Levi lost a packet.
He clearly saw the problem and dealt with it, finishing within 4 minutes of Schleck and Contador.

Not really by the time Levi cracked Lance was already in the mix, he probably decided to ride to his potential on Tourmalet as it was his last ever big mtn career climb. I just found it a shame he didn't try as hard as he did on Tourmalet throughout the rest of le Tour, at least it would have been respectable.

Anyway ..... great tour, bring on Vuelta.

tailwindhome

Moray Gub wrote:

plectrum wrote:

paulcuthbert wrote:

Don't forget he got beaten by a few older/non-GC guys in the Prologue..

I don't realy care that Lance did well in the prologue as he rode like an absolute loser for the tour as soon as he was out of contention. Gave 0 support to Leipheimer and generally didn't think about either his team or other riders.

Two points here 1) i reckon he was unable to help Levi much
2) i must be missing something here but why should he concern himself with other riders ?

I may be wrong here but it was my understanding that Radioshack was 'his' team, as in he had an ownership interest in the team over and above as leader

Therefore he should have had an interest in trying to put one of 'his' riders on the podium if at all possible

blazing_saddles

plectrum wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

I would imagine, plectrum is taking about the team classification competition.
FWIW, I thought Lance did this job, in that respect on the Tourmalet, when Levi lost a packet.
He clearly saw the problem and dealt with it, finishing within 4 minutes of Schleck and Contador.

Not really by the time Levi cracked Lance was already in the mix, he probably decided to ride to his potential on Tourmalet as it was his last ever big mtn career climb. I just found it a shame he didn't try as hard as he did on Tourmalet throughout the rest of le Tour, at least it would have been respectable.

OK, fair enough. My mistaken interpretation. Moray was right............for once! :P

plectrum

TailWindHome
MorayGulb thought I was talking about other non RS riders, it was a misinterpretation as I wasn't clear.

Anyway whether Lance is an owner or not he showed no interest in helping anyone else. Radio Shack this year as soon as Lance gave up became a team of ageing individuals rather than a team.

moray_gub

TailWindHome wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

plectrum wrote:

paulcuthbert wrote:

Don't forget he got beaten by a few older/non-GC guys in the Prologue..

I don't realy care that Lance did well in the prologue as he rode like an absolute loser for the tour as soon as he was out of contention. Gave 0 support to Leipheimer and generally didn't think about either his team or other riders.

Two points here 1) i reckon he was unable to help Levi much
2) i must be missing something here but why should he concern himself with other riders ?

I may be wrong here but it was my understanding that Radioshack was 'his' team, as in he had an ownership interest in the team over and above as leader

Therefore he should have had an interest in trying to put one of 'his' riders on the podium if at all possible

You obviously did not notice the bit when he said his team or other riders the two are not the same.

moray_gub

plectrum wrote:

TailWindHome
MorayGulb thought I was talking about other non RS riders, it was a misinterpretation as I wasn't clear.

Anyway whether Lance is an owner or not he showed no interest in helping anyone else. Radio Shack this year as soon as Lance gave up became a team of ageing individuals rather than a team.

You are making a lot more of this than is mertited LA was hardly in a position to help Levi given that on most occasions he was out the back before him.