Red & Black trail centre routes how much skill required?

t0pc4t

thanks CJC105 I have only really ridden the lookout and Ashton Court down in Bristol so my experience is extremely limited

santacrews

In my opinion, if you can get yourself around the Peak District, then you have no reason to be phased by trail centre Red & Black routes ...[/quote]

I agree with the above !

Really there is no need to pitch youreself against Trail Centres ! dont get me wrong i love riding TC's but i've never come across anything un-rideable at a centre.

Ref the BIG drops @ inners where are these located ? i am due back up there shortly to ride one side of the road one day and the other side the next day, it might be worth meeting up with someone local who has good knowledge as ive only ridden the smoothed out sections,

Anonymous

I hear the really big drops are on the "El Matador2 DH run in inners.

broken weeble

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Take for example this fantastic example of a load of people messing up a tiny drop in llandegla - on the black run.
.

If thats Black i think im more skilled than i am

I was doing bigger drops than that on a GT Palamo (sp)Rigid about 12 years ago

Anonymous

Again, It's ON a black, yes.

Llandegla black is incredibly easy at anything apart from breakneck speeds 9which you can never achieve, because you always catch up to riders like that).

However, Black trails are never a continuous link 100% non stop adrenaline overload heart failure sections.
I could show you a video of a single place on the Chatel mountain style that looked easy, but it gives you no idea of what the rest of it is like.

This video was (presumably) uploaded to highlight one of the easiest parts of the black, being completely and utterly cocked up by so many numpties.

cee

Kiblams wrote:

From what i can remember, the blacks at Llandegla are mainly climbs and the dirt jumps... Wouldn't consider any of the downhills black.

As has been said; the new Cannock trail is far more technical.

peter413 wrote:

Obviously, you try doing that at Innerleithen, well, it isn't going to end well is it.

Really? I must have missed the technical bits of the Innerleithen red... Only saw one drop off if memory serves :?

you must have missed the last descent then, becasue there are 3 in a row right at the start of the caddon bank, the third is the biggest of the three at an about 4 feet.

cee

yeehaamcgee wrote:

I hear the really big drops are on the "El Matador2 DH run in inners.

Just the matador thanks muchly....

my favourite man made trail....

Anonymous

that caddon bank section is amazing. The 2nd and 3rd drop offs caught me by surprise though, I launched off the forst one and thought "meh, is that it", so went even faster at the second and absolutely flat-out at the third, then realised it was qutie a bit bigger than the first
weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Ryan Jones

I seriously could not believe that video, how many complete numpties are there out there i don't think ANY of them filmed rode that right at all everyone had the front end down well in advance to the black, half had the pedals in completely the wrong position and as for the bailers/crashers etc just go home and ride a towpath i've seem more technical on them too

Cannock chase red route isn't that bad my first real ride over there on a bike i've never rode off road before and nothing scary front end slipped out once or twice but easily controlled. Was way too smooth though except for the bombholes which have worn in, i loved them made it more fun though ! Machynlleth was way better loads of slippery rocks to be careful of and much faster and gnarly, especially the final downhill i had to slow down a hardtail has no right to go that fast through that terrain !

broken weeble

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Again, It's ON a black, yes..

I was extracting the urine from them mate, not saying anything about the grading etc.

Why any off them would go on a Back when they cant do the most basic of stuff is beyond me, I stick to Reds as i feel they are enough for me at the moment. If i couldnt do a little drop like that id consider not doing anything marked as Red till i could.

If you drop your bike, well suck it up imho, they shouldnt moan and whine and get something ruined for the people who can.

peter413

The Caddon Bank drops deserve the black grading they get, infact, the whole of Innerleithen gets the grading it deserves, just right.

Spot on a proper red, the black options are black and the DH runs are DH runs. I love innerleithen

Anonymous

I love Inners too. I hope to go back there when it's not raining. Sadly that will probably never happen
At least it can't possibly be as bad next time as it was when we were there - I would hope so anyway.

santacrews

Hang on Hang on !!!!

INNERLEITHEN !

BIG DROPS !
Are we talking about trail centre XC / All Mountain runs or the Downhill Run ? I,m confused ?
someb bodys going on about the Matadore, That cant be compared to The red @Inners surely to or the black at degla ?

peter413

It hasn't rained really for the past few weeks now so everything is super dusty.

Don't come up anytime soon if you are going to bring the rain :twisted:

peter413

santacrews wrote:

Hang on Hang on !!!!

INNERLEITHEN !

BIG DROPS !
Are we talking about trail centre XC / All Mountain runs or the Downhill Run ? I,m confused ?
someb bodys going on about the Matadore, That cant be compared to The red @Inners surely to or the black at degla ?

Big drops are on the DH, there are big drops on the XC though, top of Caddon Bank, that is really a DH run though since it links onto the end of Make or Brake

santacrews

Peter, presumeably you have local knowledge !

I have been to Innerleithen many times going back to the early days of the Red Bull DH run with probikesport, then went full circle back to Freeride / All Mountain,

These DH bottom ended loops are they signposted or is it local riders knowledge ?
I ride Wharncliffe regularly and if you didnt know that place well you could be mistaken for thinking that place isnt too good !
I wonder what grades that place would be given ?

peter413

The 4 main tracks are sign posted but there are many other tracks that go off the sides of these that can be ridden.

If you want the best out of the place, get a local to show you around the place

Paulie W

There are chicken runs on the Caddon Bank drops arent there or am I thinking of somewhere else?

peter413

Yes there are chicken runs but they are still rocky so red graded, not blue

Ryan Jones

Why don't trail centre organisers strike a deal with the big magazines so that they can rate the trail difficulty while riding them for their own articles. That way we could have more consistent route ratings so that people won't get caught out by an unexpectedly tricky red route, incidentally leaving the nonces who complain about it less excuse for ignorance.

peter413

That wouldn't work because everyone has their own opinion.

No red is graded above red, they have specific criterea to follow, its just that a lot of reds are graded that but really aren't all that hard so could be graded blue except for maybe a few features.

And the trails are more graded that so that there is less of a chance of someone going and injuring themselves thus meaning less time spent dealing with injuries and paperwork and more time working on the trails

Northwind

Paulie W wrote:

There are chicken runs on the Caddon Bank drops arent there or am I thinking of somewhere else?

There are, but you grade trails based on the main lines. (though weirdly I've heard people say that a trail was easy or even "too easy" when I've just watched them use the chicken lines).

Are the caddon bank drops officially graded black then? There wasn't any signposting to that effect last time I was up.

There's a difference between a red with a chicken run and a red with a black option, spooky woods frinstance is the former and dougie's day off at kielder is the latter.

Ryan Jones

Trail centre organisers have their own opinions and motivations too though so therefore the current system is flawed too (clearly when reading this thread). At least having a group of riders who ride bikes for a living, have rode loads of trails on loads of different bikes, and usually they go in groups so it won't be just one persons opinion anyway it'd give more consistency than now.

Briggo

If someone wants to pay me, I'll go around and rate every trail in the UK.

One opinion, one verdict. Sorted.

peter413

Northwind wrote:

Are the caddon bank drops officially graded black then? There wasn't any signposting to that effect last time I was up.

yep, the post at the top of it says the first three drop offs are black graded, I think it was only in the past few months that they put it there, you know, when everywhere got new sign posts

peter413

Ryan Jones wrote:

Trail centre organisers have their own opinions and motivations too though so therefore the current system is flawed too (clearly when reading this thread). At least having a group of riders who ride bikes for a living, have rode loads of trails on loads of different bikes, and usually they go in groups so it won't be just one persons opinion anyway it'd give more consistency than now.

There are specific criteria to follow, if a trail contains anything on that list, it must be graded that. So that means a trail that should only be graded red but has one massive drop on the main line, even if there is a chicken run, then it must be graded black

Then there is what I was saying earlier, can't be bothered writing it again, will C+P, just a sec

peter413

peter413 wrote:

Trail grading can differ on the popularity of the centre.

I was talking to one of the rangers at Glentress about how the reds at Glentress and Innerleithen differ so much.

It turns out that they deliberatly up-grade effectively the Glentress tracks because of its popularity. Red is the most popular grade as people think it will be easy enough to be great fun for begginers to 'have a go on'. Obviously, you try doing that at Innerleithen, well, it isn't going to end well is it.

But innerleithen isn't as popular a spot, only the more experianced go there so they can grade the red, well, red wheras, at Glentress, they have to think that there will people who shouldn't really be doing anything harder than a blue on the red tracks all the time. If the red at Glentress was at Innerleithen, it would probably be graded blue.

Not sure if anyone will understand that but I tried

There you go, have a read and srethink what you are saying

Northwind

Ryan Jones wrote:

Trail centre organisers have their own opinions and motivations too though so therefore the current system is flawed too

Yup. I keep using Nevis Red and Kielder as examples but that's because they're really good. Nevis Red is a black, graded red because they want to attract more people and sell more lift passes.

Kielder on the other hand has a red that's more or less a blue, and another red that's quite dark red, and black that's blackity-black y'all- they even describe the new red as a "beginner's red". But then, just to add to the confusion they have a blue which is so challenging and technical it gets this disclaimer:

"It is recommended that people in wheelchairs are accompanied. Visitors using a mobility scooter should ensure batteries are fully charged before setting off."

But they wanted to say "Look at our new blue trails" so they graded this green, blue.

peter413

Northwind wrote:

Ryan Jones wrote:

Trail centre organisers have their own opinions and motivations too though so therefore the current system is flawed too

Yup. I keep using Nevis Red and Kielder as examples but that's because they're really good. Nevis Red is a black, graded red because they want to attract more people and sell more lift passes.

Kielder on the other hand has a red that's more or less a blue, and another red that's quite dark red, and black that's blackity-black y'all- they even describe the new red as a "beginner's red". But then, just to add to the confusion they have a blue which is so challenging and technical it gets this disclaimer:

"It is recommended that people in wheelchairs are accompanied. Visitors using a mobility scooter should ensure batteries are fully charged before setting off."

But they wanted to say "Look at our new blue trails" so they graded this green, blue.

I know I haven't been to Nevis, yet, but from what I have seen, there is nothing that means the trail must be graded black. It all follows the criteria that allows it be graded red even though most people think it should be a black.

But then, not as many people will go there riding becasue they are seen as DH trails since the WC is held there

Northwind

But then, y'see, there's still a problem. Like, I'm good at slow stuff and rocks, but I'm pretty slow on windy fast singletrack, and not a jumper. So I could look at a trail with totally different eyes to someone who's a singletrack missile but doesn't like big high commitment tech features, and they'd be different to a jump kid. Air's Rock at Laggan is supposed to be scary and demanding, I just rolled down it but the jump park which used to be blue put me back in my box.

There's no one "difficult", basically, and that's really hard to account for.

I always reckon we need more than a single colour system if we want it to be more than just the most vague of guides. Keywords maybe, so you'd have Spooky Woods: "Red - jumps- berms- fast" or Dougie's Day Off "Black- large rocks- steep- slow"...

Or do it for whole trails, drumlanrig black- "Black- roots-roots-roots-roots" Glentress black "Black- long-singletrack"