Red & Black trail centre routes how much skill required?

capoz77

Anyone ridden wildboarclough where you descend from the cat and fiddle pub, gets more technical as it goes on, turning into a rock garden fest (of like putting front wheel in a tub of butter fame) and eventually come to the river bed descent with lots of large babies head sized rocks etc? (or the climb from Tegs Nose with the bridleway descent towards the forest chapel by the side of forest)

How does that compare technically to a red or black route?

never ridden at a trail centre so just wanted a bit of a skill check.

GHill

I don't know the section of trail that you mention, but it sounds more like black trail territory. Note, black doesn't always refer just to the technical aspects - length of route and amount of climbing is also included.

Assuming this is an XC trail of course, the DH trails are a bit different

capoz77

degla red and black for example?

ilovedirt

Red routes at trail centres tend to be rollable everywhere and not what i would call technically challenging, from what i experienced at glentress and inners. In other words, i flew down them my first time with no problems at all. Don't get me wrong though, they are fun.

stubs

If its the one I am thinking of that goes down to three rivers then you shouldnt be worried by anything at a trail centre. Remember trail centres generally arent in the business of killing there customers and everything at a trail centre is rollable with a bit of bottle no matter what the colour.

You should absolutely fly down the black at Llandegla its nothing compared to what you have done

dvatc

view this video of spooky wood at glentress trail centre, its a red. no comparison to riding round macc forest area but its fantasic to ride.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdmyxugFMp4

x-isle

Any red trail is supposed to be rollable, however, some higher end red drops do require some drop off skill to complete.

As for Llandegla, it's a great centre, but the Black isn't very technical at all, it's more high end red.

Best thing to do is go and try a red trail. Most of the red route will be perfectly rideable and you can always stop and dismount on any bits that you think are a little too risky to start with.

If you find a technical bit that you complete and think "oh, that felt good", stop and do it again and try and work out what you did and practice it a few times.

Of course, there is always skills courses you could go on, ahem! :P

Northwind

ilovedirt wrote:

Red routes at trail centres tend to be rollable everywhere and not what i would call technically challenging, from what i experienced at glentress and inners. In other words, i flew down them my first time with no problems at all. Don't get me wrong though, they are fun.

Did you hit all of the harder lines? The big drops on caddon bank and the left hand line out of pennel's vennel and that?

Reds are very variable, like glentress red does have a couple of demanding points but nothing much of challenge, though you make your own fun by speeding up and selecting the right lines... But then you've got your nevis red, which is harder than most blacks. And I'm told that glentress itself is harder than most of the english reds, though I can't speak for that, the only english red I've ridden was kielder and it's tougher I reckon.

Tartanyak

On the other hand, there's meant to be a red route through Sherwood forest and it's more a mauve or some such made up colour. Suitable for children and heavily pregnant women

Reds grades are very, very variable!

weescott

Trail grades vary depending where you go. With some trail centers in England and Wales red routes are in reality blue routes. Some black sections in Welsh trail centers are graded as such for the sake of it.

Eg: The MBR trails is a fair red grade. The black sections are really still red. Glentress black is only black because of its length. Kirroughtree and Laggan black are proper black. On the flip side Nevis red is really a black. :?

x-isle

As weescott say, it's all down to the local trail centres. It's the same as ski slope grading.

It's graded to the difficulty level of what they have.

For example, a Black can be rated Black because it's the most difficult trail they have.

dan shard

As alreadt mentioned, its difficult to say. The red at Degla is loads of fun. the black is also loads of fun, a bit technical in places but fast flowing and no really heart stopping moments. Compare that to Cannock monkey which is red but FAR more technical than degla black. Still prefer degla though. Just soooooooo much fun, even the blue is a great laugh

sniper68

I've ridden Wildboarclough and although not the most technical trail in the Peak it's not really comparable to a TC red/black.As said TCs are designed to be ridden and the grading is a little suspect depending on geography.
The natural stuff is generally more technical.

bike-a-swan

Having ridden the llandegla red for the first time a couple of weeks ago, it just felt like a long fire road circuit with a bit of swoopy stuff at the far end. At the end of a few days of hard riding in n.wales, we thought it'd be a nice place to stop on the way home and find some smooth flowy runs. Instead we got the connecting sections from CYB!

Should have done the black!

cee

we ride mostly natural stuff and find that it is more technical than trail centres....

sure you can make trail centres more fun my hitting thm at speed and choosing your lines....]

but we use trail centres every now and again really just for a bit of fun and guaranteed flow.

t0pc4t

Anyone ridden the 'red route' round the lookout in Bracknell?

Seems a tad easy from what other people describe as 'red routes' am I missing something

x-isle

cee wrote:

we ride mostly natural stuff and find that it is more technical than trail centres....

sure you can make trail centres more fun my hitting thm at speed and choosing your lines....]

but we use trail centres every now and again really just for a bit of fun and guaranteed flow.

I think that sums it up for me. I prefer natural stuff, because its, er, natural. That generally makes it a bit more technical (obviously depending on where you are) because it hasn't been designed and laid like a trail centre which is designed to be flowing and fun. Of course, some Black trails have been designed not to be flowing...........

peter413

Trail grading can differ on the popularity of the centre.

I was talking to one of the rangers at Glentress about how the reds at Glentress and Innerleithen differ so much.

It turns out that they deliberatly up-grade effectively the Glentress tracks because of its popularity. Red is the most popular grade as people think it will be easy enough to be great fun for begginers to 'have a go on'. Obviously, you try doing that at Innerleithen, well, it isn't going to end well is it.

But innerleithen isn't as popular a spot, only the more experianced go there so they can grade the red, well, red wheras, at Glentress, they have to think that there will people who shouldn't really be doing anything harder than a blue on the red tracks all the time. If the red at Glentress was at Innerleithen, it would probably be graded blue.

Not sure if anyone will understand that but I tried

Anonymous

that makes sense.
I see a lot of stuff dissappearing from trail centres because too many people assume they're up to it, and complain when they break themselvees.
Take for example this fantastic example of a load of people messing up a tiny drop in llandegla - on the black run.
The drop was at most 1 foot, given enough speed, although the immediate drop from the lip to the gorund was only about 7 inches or so.

Now, despite llandegla being the least challenging black section you'll ever see, it could be argued that none of these numpties (all offence intended) should have been anywhere near anything regarded as a black.
Anyway, that tiny little drop has noe been removed, because so many people were hurting themselves.

It's a pet peve of mine that trail centres are being "domesticated" because people like this who obviously can't ride for crap, believe everything should be rideable, and that enough of them are self righteous enough that they complain.
I mean, seriously, if you can't ride a drop that tiny, you are not ready to take on any moderately challenging terrain.
Keep riding until you get confident enough to ride with some aggression, and quit forcing trails to be smoothed out for those of us who can ride the terrain, and enjoy a challenge.

The way I would like to see trail grading, being a long term rider, with good technical skills, is that I , and similar riders would get.....

Green trails, suitable for taking family members, or friends new to riding along, but would still require a genuine mountain bike. Not a cycle path, but not really challenging either.

Blue trails, great challenge for newcomers to MTB, with enough features to test them, but nothing of high consequence should they come a cropper.

Red trails, fairly challenging, with some interesting tricky sections. Some sections could be potentially dangerous if it all went tits up. Would potentially require good experience on the bike to get round

Black trails. enough technically challenging features to make me/us think twice before attempting, or some tricky enough sections that advanced riders can actually feel a sense of achievment at clearing. High risk situations are pretty much expected.

Double black - for the true nutters. This is the kind of trail i would have serious doubts about attempting. Would have features that adrenaline junkies would flock from miles around to prove their worth on.

Anything easier than a green should not be graded, they are cycle paths, not trails


As it stands though, I've never met a trail centre obstacle in this country that leaves me exhillerated.

miss notax

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Take for example this fantastic example of a load of people messing up a tiny drop in llandegla - on the black run.

That's a black? :shock:

(I have never been brave enough to try a whole back run (have ridden bits if Wales) - I always thought they were full of un-rollable nasty massive drops and stuff...)

CJC105

Topcat - there isn't really a red in Bracknell thats actually a trail lots of bits and pieces there and some fairly tricky bits but not a red trail like at Afan etc. Trails whilst they may have tricky bits are often easier than just heading out into the country as you know you'll be able to ride whats around every corner, thats certainly not the case in my experience of somwhere like the peaks.

Anonymous

miss notax wrote:

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Take for example this fantastic example of a load of people messing up a tiny drop in llandegla - on the black run.

That's a black? :shock:

(I have never been brave enough to try a whole back run (have ridden bits if Wales) - I always thought they were full of un-rollable nasty massive drops and stuff...)

It is part of a black, yes. But that's entirely my point, it shouldn't be that grade.

The Northern Monkey

miss notax wrote:

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Take for example this fantastic example of a load of people messing up a tiny drop in llandegla - on the black run.

That's a black? :shock:

(I have never been brave enough to try a whole back run (have ridden bits if Wales) - I always thought they were full of un-rollable nasty massive drops and stuff...)

The black at Llandegla isn't very technical, but there are some fairly big + consecutive(but easy rolling) jumps in there. It would be very easy to hit these with too much speed and have a nasty off into the surrounding trees.

There is also the high boardwalk (which imo should be a black option - not just part of the trail).

miss notax

Agreed!!

x-isle

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Take for example this fantastic example of a load of people messing up a tiny drop in llandegla - on the black run.

I'm loving the guy at just over one minute in.

He sets himself up almost perfectly and then bails it!

Anonymous

bigbenj_08 wrote:

miss notax wrote:

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Take for example this fantastic example of a load of people messing up a tiny drop in llandegla - on the black run.

That's a black? :shock:

(I have never been brave enough to try a whole back run (have ridden bits if Wales) - I always thought they were full of un-rollable nasty massive drops and stuff...)

The black at Llandegla isn't very technical, but there are some fairly big + consecutive(but easy rolling) jumps in there. It would be very easy to hit these with too much speed and have a nasty off into the surrounding trees.

There is also the high boardwalk (which imo should be a black option - not just part of the trail).

Like I said, features that belong ont he red. The jumps aren't large, and they're all rollable.
There's only one "high" boardwalk section, but it's as wide as hell, and it's on the black.
The low, bumpy boarwalk on the red is more technical.

The Northern Monkey

yeehaamcgee wrote:

bigbenj_08 wrote:

miss notax wrote:

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Take for example this fantastic example of a load of people messing up a tiny drop in llandegla - on the black run.

That's a black? :shock:

(I have never been brave enough to try a whole back run (have ridden bits if Wales) - I always thought they were full of un-rollable nasty massive drops and stuff...)

The black at Llandegla isn't very technical, but there are some fairly big + consecutive(but easy rolling) jumps in there. It would be very easy to hit these with too much speed and have a nasty off into the surrounding trees.

There is also the high boardwalk (which imo should be a black option - not just part of the trail).

Like I said, features that belong ont he red. The jumps aren't large, and they're all rollable.
There's only one "high" boardwalk section, but it's as wide as hell, and it's on the black.
The low, bumpy boarwalk on the red is more technical.

I fcuking hate that bumpy boardwalk! its soooo draggy!
I do agree that Llandegla is a fairly easy red btw. The riding up at Whinlatter is a fair bit more technical (on the north face anyways) than anything at Llandegla.

Northwind

peter413 wrote:

It turns out that they deliberatly up-grade effectively the Glentress tracks because of its popularity. Red is the most popular grade as people think it will be easy enough to be great fun for begginers to 'have a go on'. Obviously, you try doing that at Innerleithen, well, it isn't going to end well is it.

Yup. Likewise nevis range get away with their ludicrously dark red because it's in the middle of nowhere then right up a mountain and anyone riding it's put in some effort, if you put that trail somewhere accessible that 50000 noobs can get to and called it a red it'd be, well, manslaughter

Kiblams

From what i can remember, the blacks at Llandegla are mainly climbs and the dirt jumps... Wouldn't consider any of the downhills black.

As has been said; the new Cannock trail is far more technical.

peter413 wrote:

Obviously, you try doing that at Innerleithen, well, it isn't going to end well is it.

Really? I must have missed the technical bits of the Innerleithen red... Only saw one drop off if memory serves :?

supersonic

Some rate trails black if they have massive technical climbs.

glauciaregina9

capoz77 wrote:

Anyone ridden wildboarclough where you descend from the cat and fiddle pub, gets more technical as it goes on, turning into a rock garden fest (of like putting front wheel in a tub of butter fame) and eventually come to the river bed descent with lots of large babies head sized rocks etc? (or the climb from Tegs Nose with the bridleway descent towards the forest chapel by the side of forest)

How does that compare technically to a red or black route?

never ridden at a trail centre so just wanted a bit of a skill check.

In my opinion, if you can get yourself around the Peak District, then you have no reason to be phased by trail centre Red & Black routes ...