Massively offtopic: 'future financial dependants'
Comments
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DonDaddyD wrote:rjsterry wrote:
I take it you think Mrs DDD is less career driven or is happy to park her career for a few years? Of course it'll affect your career, but the point is that you may find raising children as if not more rewarding than your career.
To draw comparisons:
Mrs DDD has spent over 10 years building a career in Law, to my understanding in her circle, in Law there are many, she is respected and considered brilliant. I've got incredible levels of respect for her and how she achieved.
I have been working full time for 4 years. I've learned a lot about myself in these years and want to explore what I can really achieve.
I want to achieve professionally for various personal reasons. It wouldn't make me a better man or Father, but I would feel pride when looking in the mirror (not that I don't right now, I do) and would be able to provide more comfortably for my family.
I also want a Honda Civic, then a Mercedes, a four bedroom house with a garage and a big kitchen for Ms DDD, a 42-46inch TV and at least two holidays abroad. I also want to take my kids to Disney Land when they're 10. Amongst other things.
Sorry, missed the bit where you said that Mrs DDD did want to stop work, but I think this makes things easier: you want to keep working she is ready to take a break from employment; you both seem to want children. I don't know your financial situation in detail, but from what you've said, it sounds like it would be more than feasible financially, although you might have to settle for a second hand Civic.
The other point I was trying to make was that while pursuing your career might not make you a better Dad, being a Dad might indirectly help your career.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
How many kids?
When did the wife go back to full time work?
How do you get by?
What was the impact having kids had on riding a bike and commuting by bike?
4- ages 10,8,5,2
Not for the foreseeable. Not even part time
By the skin of our teeth. My decent salary gets absolutely swallowed. Camping holidays. Nothing foreign. Endless fix-and-make-do. endless worrying about the next big repair bill on the car / house.
No long runs. No races. Commute 20 miles each way (takes 1hr whether cycling or driving, so I get to save £100 pm petrol by cycling pretty much every day).
Life seems "on hold". No toys since pre-kids. None for the foreseeable.Commute: Langster -Singlecross - Brompton S2-LX
Road: 95 Trek 5500 -Look 695 Aerolight eTap - Boardman TTe eTap
Offroad: Pace RC200 - Dawes Kickback 2 tandem - Tricross - Boardman CXR9.8 - Ridley x-fire0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:I also want a Honda Civic, then a Mercedes, a four bedroom house with a garage and a big kitchen for Ms DDD, a 42-46inch TV and at least two holidays abroad. I also want to take my kids to Disney Land when they're 10. Amongst other things.
What's the timeframe on this?
Not a realistic time frame. I don't want to put a timeframe on kids, might freak me out... I've promised myself a Honda (if all next years aspirational requirments are met - it'll also mean that I can afford it). The TV is a given and just a matter of time. The 4 bedroom house I don't expect to have for a while. It's an aspiration to keep working towards.Hang on, Mrs DDD's been in law for 10 years? And that's a 5ish year qualification with the bar and articles (I think) so she's, what, 33?
I may have misspoke when I said over 10years. She's 29 about 7 years qualified and worked in a legal secretary role for a law firm before that. I think.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:I also want a Honda Civic, then a Mercedes, a four bedroom house with a garage and a big kitchen for Ms DDD, a 42-46inch TV and at least two holidays abroad. I also want to take my kids to Disney Land when they're 10. Amongst other things.
What's the timeframe on this?
Not a realistic time frame. I don't want to put a timeframe on kids, might freak me out... I've promised myself a Honda (if all next years aspirational requirments are met - it'll also mean that I can afford it). The TV is a given and just a matter of time. The 4 bedroom house I don't expect to have for a while. It's an aspiration to keep working towards.Hang on, Mrs DDD's been in law for 10 years? And that's a 5ish year qualification with the bar and articles (I think) so she's, what, 33?
I may have misspoke when I said over 10years. She's 29 about 7 years qualified and worked in a legal secretary role for a law firm before that. I think.
Oh, god, that explains it - she's nearly 30. It's OK, leave it a couple of years and she'll calm down. :P
So the list was in total, throughout life? That's better. I'd prioritise the house over the telly and the cars though. If you want kids you need somewhere to put them!0 -
How many kids?
When did the wife go back to full time work?
How do you get by?
What was the impact having kids had on riding a bike and commuting by bike?
1 x 4 year old boy.
part time after 6 months. full time when he was 2
difficult to answer as I'm unfortunately not working at the mo - but at first, to be brutally honest, we adjusted badly to lack of income, and spent our savings and more!
my wife works shifts, so bike commuting is (was!) dependent on her work - but not impossible.
but i've a child seat on my bike, and going out on the bike with junior is some of the best quality time we spend together! Plus, given Sheffield's hills and the extra 18kg, good exercise!
Although I do want to get back into work - full time carer, whether planned or not is HARD - most importantly, I should say its worth it, as NOTHING, not career, not money, matches the sheer joy that your children can sometimes bring with a look, a touch, a laugh, a creation etc....0 -
rjsterry wrote:
Sorry, missed the bit where you said that Mrs DDD did want to stop work, but I think this makes things easier: you want to keep working she is ready to take a break from employment; you both seem to want children. I don't know your financial situation in detail, but from what you've said, it sounds like it would be more than feasible financially, although you might have to settle for a second hand Civic.
The other point I was trying to make was that while pursuing your career might not make you a better Dad, being a Dad might indirectly help your career.
I'd never buy a new car it makes no financial sense. I do want their newer shape though. When I first saw one I thought of Knight Rider and then remembered my childhood so now I have to have one.
I think you're right about being a Dad helping my career. To be honest the next job would benefit from the perception that I plan to stick around longer than 2 years.
(This is really helping me to get my thoughts straight).Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
ex-pat scot wrote:No toys since pre-kids. None for the foreseeable.
Apart from at least 3 of the fleet listed on your sig if my maths is correct. None of us would like to admit it, but beyond the first 2 or 3, they really are toys.
I'll get my coat.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Hold up.
How on earth does being a parent help your career?0 -
ps - disneyland is over rated!
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DonDaddyD wrote:... I also want a Honda Civic, then a Mercedes....
You work in marketing and aspire to a Honda or a Merc?
That's long term planning... you need to be over 60 to drive them! :-)
Cheers,
W.0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:Hold up.
How on earth does being a parent help your career?
Indirectly, granted, but I think it can. You learn a fair few transferable skills, which you might not already have - you pretty much have to be more organised, more sensible and more reliable. Also you are less likely to keep moving on every 2 years, especially if you are the only earner. I think there may be some management and conflict resolution skills in there too (if you have more than one). A lot of employers would value these traits and would be less likely to invest in someone with no ties or responsibilities.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:Hold up.
How on earth does being a parent help your career?
Makes you look responsible, reliable and gives the impression you are thinking of the longer term.
A company may be more inclined to invest in or take risks over (promotion) someone who they think will stick around long enough for them to reap the benefits.
Also, you'll be too busy at home to look for another job... especially if it means moving house, changing schools, losing your local support network etc.
Cheers,
W.0 -
Greg66 wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:So I ask:
How many kids?
When did the wife go back to full time work?
How do you get by?
What was the impact having kids had on riding a bike and commuting by bike?
Decisions made now will impact my ability to commute by bike in the future. So in someways, yes, this is relevant.
In order:
- Two
- Still waiting. No time soon though.
- Through gritted teeth
- It ruined what was, according to many (one) impartial (a lie) observers (me) one of the most promising triathlon careers that this country has ever seen. No effect on commuting by bike though.
It sort of made a difference to where we live. Sort of. We now live somewhere kid friendly that I can commute by bike from. Had it not been for my selfishness, we'd have gone further out and I'd be on a train.
+1. (Not the triathlon bit, though.) FCN 2-4.
"What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
"It stays down, Daddy."
"Exactly."0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:Hold up.
How on earth does being a parent help your career?
I'm getting to a point where employers are looking for you to settle in their company behind a desk managing people like me.
I know, it's the public sector don't think about it too much it'll annoy you, it did me. Just accept it.
Also:
I've promised myself a car either during 2011-2012. Also I may need a bigger car than a bright red 3 door Seat Ibiza. The Merc is a future pipe dream (when Ms DDD/if goes back to work)No claws, just a statement of fact.
Disney Land when the kid/s are about 10. So they can remember it.
4 Bedroom House, not sure. I would like to say when I'm 35, so in seven years time but you just can't be sure.
42-46inch TV... soon. If not 2010 then 2011.
If I can keep my salary or just improve it slightly I could pay the bills, mortgage and food give Ms DDD enough for her and the kid (she also gets superb maternity cover but that isn't a factor) and manage to keep something for myself. It's part of the reason why I want this professional marketing course and the Masters...Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
WGWarburton wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:... I also want a Honda Civic, then a Mercedes....
You work in marketing and aspire to a Honda or a Merc?
That's long term planning... you need to be over 60 to drive them! :-)
Cheers,
W.
I want to be cocooned in this more than I want my next breath!Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Sounds like you're pretty much there. If you want a 4-bed house within 5 years, you'd better get on the property ladder soon. One last thought - it's OK to be a bit scared of starting a family - all the best things are a bit scary.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Ah! Growing up is hard to do. Kiss goodbye to comics and time on the xbox
A rule of thumb for childcare costs is that it's the same as a second mortgage.
Shockingly there is no discount for twinsHow many kids?
When did the wife go back to full time work?
How do you get by?
What was the impact having kids had on riding a bike and commuting by bike?
4 kids - 7, 5 and 18mth old twins
Wife went back to work 3 mths after first child (as she had no maternity pay and I was a lowly trainee accountant), 6 mths after second child (maternity pay but still lowly accountant. Each time my mum provided free full time childcare.
The twins have been different as we moved away from where my mum lives to my wifes home town. Mrs TWH has taken a 3 year career break to look after the twins.
We survive on savings and by not spending any money on anything not 100% essential“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Hmmmmmm.
The sticking around I can see, but I'd be more concerned about the probability that someone with kids may be less inclined to work long hours, travel for work etc. and also may keep disappearing for sports days or not coming in because little Tarquin has a migraine.
Everyone's different though!0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:Hmmmmmm.
The sticking around I can see, but I'd be more concerned about the probability that someone with kids may be less inclined to work long hours, travel for work etc. and also may keep disappearing for sports days or not coming in because little Tarquin has a migraine.
Everyone's different though!
Strangely, in our world of "equality", I've come across this attitude aimed more at mothers than fathers......0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:Hmmmmmm.
The sticking around I can see, but I'd be more concerned about the probability that someone with kids may be less inclined to work long hours, travel for work etc. and also may keep disappearing for sports days or not coming in because little Tarquin has a migraine.
Everyone's different though!
Funny that
I my wife's job it's a song and dance if you need time off for childcare, however if the childless/childfree couples need time of for a city break or ski trip it's just fabulous darling“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
PBo wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:Hmmmmmm.
The sticking around I can see, but I'd be more concerned about the probability that someone with kids may be less inclined to work long hours, travel for work etc. and also may keep disappearing for sports days or not coming in because little Tarquin has a migraine.
Everyone's different though!
Strangely, in our world of "equality", I've come across this attitude aimed more at mothers than fathers......
Well, to be fair it is generally the mother who'd take on that role.TailWindHome wrote:Funny that
I my wife's job it's a song and dance if you need time off for childcare, however if the childless/childfree couples need time of for a city break or ski trip it's just fabulous darling
Is that anything to do with the couple taking it out of their annual leave?0 -
TailWindHome wrote:4 kids - 7, 5 and 18mth old twins
Ooooh, unlucky!
You roll the dice a third time and it comes up double "£££". That's gotta hurt.0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:Hmmmmmm.
The sticking around I can see, but I'd be more concerned about the probability that someone with kids may be less inclined to work long hours, travel for work etc. and also may keep disappearing for sports days or not coming in because little Tarquin has a migraine.
Everyone's different though!
I certainly make up any hours I miss - flexi time is only flexi in terms of when you work, not how much. I am less willing to work long hours, but then my boss has led by example on that one, and he and I are both unconvinced of the value of people working longer hours - after a certain point, your productivity drops off massively.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Big male / female divide on this I reckon, at least in my industry. For men, kids = stable, responsible, mature, committed. For women = work will never be their focus, all of the "issues" LiT has just listed. Completely unfair, but I guess its a bonus for guys my age as women start to drop off the career ladder like flies! An employment lawyer friend of mine recommends that married women with kids should remove their wedding ring before going for an interview, as it'll be assumed they are planning to get up the duff as soon as possible otherwise...0
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Lit wrote:TailWindHome wrote:Funny that
I my wife's job it's a song and dance if you need time off for childcare, however if the childless/childfree couples need time of for a city break or ski trip it's just fabulous darling
Is that anything to do with the couple taking it out of their annual leave?
You think that time off for childcare doesn't (or at least be unpaid)?
It's a question of perception, if she needs a Friday off for Sports Day the eyes roll and she hasn't her priorities straight, if the same Friday is to go to the airport then fine "aren't you so lucky ...blah..blah...blah"
Both come out of annual leave
ETA That post maybe comes across more argumentative than I mean it to be“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Greg66 wrote:TailWindHome wrote:4 kids - 7, 5 and 18mth old twins
Ooooh, unlucky!
You roll the dice a third time and it comes up double "£££". That's gotta hurt.
I was happy with my winnings and ready to retire my dice!“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
I have 2 kids, 4 years old, and 12 weeks old.
My wife will be going back to work at the end of this year, but part time. She can do 2-3 shifts a week, and make them mostly outside of my working hours. For the times when we have to work at the same time, well, that's what grandparents are for. Childcare costs more than we would gain from her working.
I'm broke, I'm always broke and I've always been broke. I hand over my entire wage every month and I ask for some back if I run out of petrol or I need a beer. Magically all the money gets used up every month and I honestly can't see it ever being any different now I have 2 daughters. I mean what bloody purpose do Lelly Kellies serve? Surely all the sparkly bits just get in the way of walking?
I blame my first daughter for making me get fat. I stopped smoking for her and promptly put on 4 stones in weight. However, it is only because I want to be able to play with my children properly that I have started cycling again, so I can say that they have both had a positive impact on my riding.
Just have kids and the more the better, they keep you sane.
p.s. I got rid of my little car and got a Daddy Wagon for carting everybody and thing about. Not glamorous, not fast, does the job.0 -
I have an 8 month old son and my wife went back to work for 3 days a week 2 months ago. She has her own business and can be fairly flexible but having had keyhole heart surgery back in Feb it was quite a stressful time. We're in a situation now where we nanny share 3 days a week which really helps but is scarily expensive.
Everything I earn pretty much goes into our joint account which then goes on household bills and the little one. My social life is next to non-existent and the washing machine is on 24/7 which means the house constantly looks liek a chinese laundry. I'm forever doign chores and clearing up. My only break from home life (which is great BTW and I wouldn't change it for a thing) is being able to get out on the bike by myself once in a while and do the odd triathlon (finding time to do training is nigh on impossible though) .
The trouble is she earns a lot more than me and we'd struggle to get by on my salary. She has made it clear though that she doesn't want to continue working after about 5 years from now (and we'll most likely have another child as well) which means I either change jobs and try and find something that pays infinitely more than now or I wait for a rich relative to pop their clogs and hope they remembered me in the will!
It all sounds like a nightmare and I'm not denying its hard work but the rewards far outweigh the cons. When I cycle home from work and my son smiles at me in recognition when I walk through the front door and then I get to bath him and put him to bed, it all somehow makes it all worth it.0 -
TailWindHome wrote:Lit wrote:TailWindHome wrote:Funny that
I my wife's job it's a song and dance if you need time off for childcare, however if the childless/childfree couples need time of for a city break or ski trip it's just fabulous darling
Is that anything to do with the couple taking it out of their annual leave?
You think that time off for childcare doesn't (or at least be unpaid)?
It's a question of perception, if she needs a Friday off for Sports Day the eyes roll and she hasn't her priorities straight, if the same Friday is to go to the airport then fine "aren't you so lucky ...blah..blah...blah"
Both come out of annual leave
ETA That post maybe comes across more argumentative than I mean it to be
No biggie... It was more a question than me spoiling for a fight... although this is generally the right room for an argument
My thinking was that, were I to go on a city break etc, I'd have planned it at least a couple of weeks in advance and put in the relevant leave, whereas I can imagine that childcare obligations may not be so easily foreseen, hence the frustration.0 -
TailWindHome wrote:Lit wrote:TailWindHome wrote:Funny that
I my wife's job it's a song and dance if you need time off for childcare, however if the childless/childfree couples need time of for a city break or ski trip it's just fabulous darling
Is that anything to do with the couple taking it out of their annual leave?
You think that time off for childcare doesn't (or at least be unpaid)?
It's a question of perception, if she needs a Friday off for Sports Day the eyes roll and she hasn't her priorities straight, if the same Friday is to go to the airport then fine "aren't you so lucky ...blah..blah...blah"
Both come out of annual leave
ETA That post maybe comes across more argumentative than I mean it to be
Not at all. I think it's an absolutely fair point. That whole attitude gets right on my wick (and did before I had a daughter as well). They'll be looking after you one way or another when you get old, directly or indirectly through taxes, so pipe the f*** down.
EDIT: Not you LiT, 'them'. Got a bit of a bee in my bonnet about that. A fair point about the unplanned nature of some child related absences, but so are sick days, and businesses seem to be able to cope with them. As I think TWH pointed out, employers are obliged to at least consider a request for flexi time.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0
