Massively offtopic: 'future financial dependants'

wgwarburton

fenboy369 wrote:

Be prepared to put your life on hold and not have anything you want for at least 18 years. Anything you get in that time is a bonus. Thats the advice my Dad gave me.

+1 Sound advice. Make sure your kit will fit you in 10 years, so you don't have to buy new stuff before you can to pick up your hobby in the few hours you've stolen. I have a problem in that my winter wetsuit no longer fits because my thighs are too big from cycling(!). I'd only use it once or twice a year... I can't justify replacing it (to myself).

So I ask:
How many kids?
When did the wife go back to full time work?
How do you get by?
What was the impact having kids had on riding a bike and commuting by bike?

1. Two, now 8 & almost7

2. Not yet- currently working part-time from home: income building up but negative ATM.

3. Dropped second car, foreign holidays, still struggling.

4. Initially, childcare arrangements precluded biking, now doing more to save money.

On the positive side- get your kids to enjoy your own hobbies and for a brief period you'll be able to share them. Like-a-bike at 3-ish, riding around 4-5, short trips together from 6 or so. Consider trailers, bike-seats, tag-a-longs etc. N.B. like-minded partner almost a necessity....

kelsen

rjsterry wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

MatHammond wrote:

One kid here, wife went back to work after around 10 months I think it was, 2 days a week. One thing your other half might want to bear in mind is that staying at home looking after a kid is no "cake walk", my wife actually sees the days at work as a "day off" in a lot of ways, although she wouldn't be happy working more than 2 days (maybe 3 at a push). Nurseries take kids practically from birth, although we weren't too comfortable with that idea. You're looking at at least £50 a day for nursery (depending where you are of course) - I'd guess in the region of £70 in Wimbledon?

I could keep a home and raise kids no problems. My Mum gave me chores when I was younger. I do the laundry now, dishes (in the dish washer) and dinner meh, cake walk.

Wimbledon nursery near me takes kids for £175.50 for 3 days. I was thinking of working at home one day a week and Ms DDD doing the same, but on another day, to save money. Five days a week at this nursery costs £292.50. I wouldn't want a nursery taking my kids before they could talk and walk.

My Gran is another option, she lives in Clapham... I also have another Gran living in Thorton Heath that may get proxy-parental duties.

Based on my 10 months experience, if you think you can work from home and look after the little one, you are kidding yourself at least fro the first few years. I've also watched my boss (who is about 3-4 years ahead of me in this) having the same problem. To start with they need almost constant attention - and they don't sleep as much as you'd think.

Totally agree. I have the option of working from home occasionally but almost never do because I know I wouldn't get anything done. Up until they start crawling you might be alright, but after that, every minute of your life is taken up with making sure they don't fall off the bed/sofa/coffee table, strangle themself with the curtain cords, poke their eyes out with a crayon/pen/Ben10 action figure, drink mouthwash/bleach/paint thinner, eat a button/coin/insect, etc

...and that's just in 10 minutes!

DonDaddyD

Clever Pun wrote:

If she's the major earner then it would make fiscal sense for you to look after the nipper(s) surely?

I am career driven.

I'm doing a professional Marketing qualification now but I want a Masters ASAP. If I wait to start the the Masters in say 5-7yrs (I'll be 35) time it may stunt my career path and may dash my career aspirations.

Right now I could do it financially but I'd feel more comfortable with at least another £500-£1,000 to maintain my lifestyle, do a masters and keep the family.

This isn't fair.

Does it make you appreciate your own parents more?

I couldn't do what my parents did. I've got impossible levels of respect for them they were only 20 and 21 when I arrived. I never went without. How they managed the things they did I'll never know.

Trev71

We have three (twins, 7 and a 4-year old)

Mrs Trev went back to work after 12 months, but tends to do part-time or temporary contract type stuff. We get help from the in-laws with school pick-ups/drop-offs a couple of days a week, otherwise childminder costs would get silly.

Our second car was sacrificed to save money, but I get to commute by bike, which is good as I don't get out on weekends on the bike anymore.

I would say that having children was the best thing that ever happened to me and I'm looking forward to when they're a bit older and we can go on bike rides together.

craker

DonDaddyD wrote:

Wimbledon nursery near me takes kids for £175.50 for 3 days. I was thinking of working at home one day a week and Ms DDD doing the same, but on another day, to save money. Five days a week at this nursery costs £292.50. I wouldn't want a nursery taking my kids before they could talk and walk.

You're not going to want just one though are you?

We've just had our 3rd. It's fecking mad at home. I got home on Tuesday after 15 mile commute, soaking wet and got handed a baby straightaway so mrs_si could cook tea. 1/2 hour before I towelled my hair down and had a recovery drink.

My eldest starts school in September = free childcare

Employers have to allow requests for flexible working for parents of children up to 6. In my case that means I'll be able to do a childcare run in the morning, get into work late, leave at normal time and make up the hours another day of the week.

So there are some upsides. And the children themselves are the focus of my money and freetime now, thank goodness for the bike commute to keep me sane.

camerone

DonDaddyD wrote:

Clever Pun wrote:

If she's the major earner then it would make fiscal sense for you to look after the nipper(s) surely?

I am career driven.

I'm doing a professional Marketing qualification now but I want a Masters ASAP. If I wait to start the the Masters in say 5-7yrs (I'll be 35) time it may stunt my career path and may dash my career aspirations.

Right now I could do it financially but I'd feel more comfortable with at least another £500-£1,000 to maintain my lifestyle, do a masters and keep the family.

This isn't fair.

Does it make you appreciate your own parents more?

if you really dont think its fair and your girlfriend really wants to stay at home might i respectfully suggest maybe its not the right relationship to have kids. one of you is going to harbour serious resentment and then its only a matter of time

DonDaddyD

camerone wrote:

if you really dont think its fair and your girlfriend really wants to stay at home might i respectfully suggest maybe its not the right relationship to have kids. one of you is going to harbour serious resentment and then its only a matter of time

It is fair, I just didn't and I mean never thought that I would have to pay for everything.

wgwarburton

DonDaddyD wrote:

....
...This isn't fair....

Here's a free one. Remember it, 'cos it'll come in handy when you do have kids yourself:

Who told you life would be fair? Whoever it was, they were lying!

Cheers,
W.

PS. It's amazingly hard to convince an eight-year-old that she should be happy that life isn't fair, because she does extremely well out of the injustice of it all!!

DonDaddyD

Realistically, mortgage and bills aside.

How much does childcosts actually costs a month?

Go on give it a number...

camerone

DonDaddyD wrote:

camerone wrote:

if you really dont think its fair and your girlfriend really wants to stay at home might i respectfully suggest maybe its not the right relationship to have kids. one of you is going to harbour serious resentment and then its only a matter of time

It is fair, I just didn't and I mean never thought that I would have to pay for everything.

its a shock to the bank account no doubt, but the paybacks when you are ready more than outweight the reduction in cash /spending ability. this comes from someone whose youngest is 5 months and still wakes 3 times a night so is in constant zombie mode]

also on the plus side those chores you share at home at the moment, no longer- tea on the table etc
just make sure the terminology used is 'housewife' and NOT 'stay at home mum' they are poles apart!

spen666

DonDaddyD wrote:

So, I was talking to my girlfriend recently about the possibility of starting family (in a few years) and it suddenly occured, well was made clear, that I would be the only one working and therefore the only one paying the bills, mortgage, food etc for several years.

No one told me that women stop working for up to five years and the man has to pay for everything! I mean sure when I think about it, it makes sense, but I'm male and I really didn't think about the wider implications having baby would have beyond simply having a baby.

I honestly just thought you had a baby, got maternity pay and then after 12months went back to work... I didn't think about who looks after the baby, picks them up from nusery etc. Now I'm learning that there could only be one household income for 3 - 5yrs and if you have more in quick succession this could be even longer!

They really should inform you about this 'future financial dependants' at school or something. I really do feel mislead.

Also I feel duped; Ms DDD is a lawyer I was under the impression that I was going to be 'kept' (to some degree). Now I'm being told that she doesn't want to work full time (or at all) once "we" have kids. I should have kept my salary secret is what I should have done.

So I ask:
How many kids?
When did the wife go back to full time work?
How do you get by?
What was the impact having kids had on riding a bike and commuting by bike?

Decisions made now will impact my ability to commute by bike in the future. So in someways, yes, this is relevant.

DDD some advice for you

If you go out in the rain you get wet
If you don't eat you will starve
If you get on a bus/ train you need a ticket
You need to put clothes on before going outside
Being hit by a motor vehicle can hurt a bit

Anything else bleeding obvious you want to be taught

gabriel959

camerone wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Clever Pun wrote:

If she's the major earner then it would make fiscal sense for you to look after the nipper(s) surely?

I am career driven.

I'm doing a professional Marketing qualification now but I want a Masters ASAP. If I wait to start the the Masters in say 5-7yrs (I'll be 35) time it may stunt my career path and may dash my career aspirations.

Right now I could do it financially but I'd feel more comfortable with at least another £500-£1,000 to maintain my lifestyle, do a masters and keep the family.

This isn't fair.

Does it make you appreciate your own parents more?

if you really dont think its fair and your girlfriend really wants to stay at home might i respectfully suggest maybe its not the right relationship to have kids. one of you is going to harbour serious resentment and then its only a matter of time

+1000 Don't do it to you - more importantly dont do it to them

lost_in_thought

So, how long will the marketing course + masters take?

I ask, because it seems like that might be how long the two of you have got to save enough cash to survive on your income alone for 5+years..... :twisted:

In other news, my cousin and his wife have a 4-year-old. In oz, if you work for the gov't (both do) you can choose who gets the maternity (longer) and the paternity (shorter) leave. She earns considerably more, so she had baby, took paternity, went back to work, whereas he took the maternity and is the main carer. He still only works part-time, and the little one is in nursery 4 days a week.

el_presidente

My boy is 1 next weekend, I don't care how much he costs in time & money, he is a BARGAIN.

daviesee

Waterproof / Breathable / Cheap - choose any 2 from 3

Babies / Money / Time - choose any 2 from 3

No. you can't have it all :roll:

SBezza

So I ask:
How many kids?
When did the wife go back to full time work?
How do you get by?
What was the impact having kids had on riding a bike and commuting by bike?


1 child aged 5
Wife went back to work part time after about 6 months, and full time not long after.
Wife had to work to get by, she knew this
Only starting riding when my lad was 3, but it hasn't had any real impact on me.

We are incredibly lucky that my wife's mother lives just around the corner from the school, home, and not far from where I work. Before the lad went to school, he was in pre school and nursery nearly everyday, this still worked out better for us moneywise than the wife staying at home.

Life does change with having kids, but for me it hasn't changed massively, the firs 3 years of his life I picked him up everyday from his nan's, but now with a change of job by my wife she does this, this allows me to commute by bike to work.

neiltb

how much does it cost a month?

How much have you got?

woodford2barbican

I am a smug parent. Love being a father to two girls, makes me smile every night on the way home knowing that I am going to see them.

How many kids?
2. Eldest is three and the other 15 months

When did the wife go back to full time work?
7 months after the first, 12 months after the second

How do you get by?
We are very lucky and have no financial worries. Both the wife and I earn good salaries, My wife's parents care for children thus saving us money & the worry of having to find childcare

What was the impact having kids had on riding a bike and commuting by bike?
All non commuting riding has stopped. Commuting continues though less so at the moment. I hope that by time kids are couple of years older the recreational riding will restart.

rjsterry

DonDaddyD wrote:

Clever Pun wrote:

If she's the major earner then it would make fiscal sense for you to look after the nipper(s) surely?

I am career driven.

I'm doing a professional Marketing qualification now but I want a Masters ASAP. If I wait to start the the Masters in say 5-7yrs (I'll be 35) time it may stunt my career path and may dash my career aspirations.

Right now I could do it financially but I'd feel more comfortable with at least another £500-£1,000 to maintain my lifestyle, do a masters and keep the family.

This isn't fair.

Does it make you appreciate your own parents more?

I couldn't do what my parents did. I've got impossible levels of respect for them they were only 20 and 21 when I arrived. I never went without. How they managed the things they did I'll never know.

I take it you think Mrs DDD is less career driven or is happy to park her career for a few years? Of course it'll affect your career, but the point is that you may find raising children as if not more rewarding than your career. Anyway, I thought you said you were thinking of starting a family in a few years; a Masters should only take you a year or two, so you could get that out of the way first if you had to.

Alternatively, does having the family first have to stunt your career? Sure, it'll be more of a challenge, but maybe having a family will be an asset to a potential employer - you're more likely to be sensible, responsible, organised, stick around than someone with no ties.

How is any of this unfair? And what's fair got to do with it anyway? We've found that our core lifestyle hasn't really changed that much despite a roughly 40% drop in our income, and if anything, has improved as we concentrate on the important things more. Not having cash to spend on stuff you don't need isn't much of a hardship at all.

I'm sure you could do what your parents did if you really wanted to.

rhext

Well, there is a choice: lots of people have a child, do the maternity leave and then go back to work. And if your wife is a lawyer, my guess is that she'd earn enough to make this worthwhile despite childcare costs. And the state does chip in a bit: you're not going to get rich on tax credits and child allowance but it does provide a contribution.

But the bottom line is that when you have kids you can pretty much kiss goodbye to personal disposable income. Fancy a new bike? Junior needs some new clothes! Want to upgrade your groupset? Time to book the family holiday, do you think we can afford to go to France this year? Unless you're particularly selfish or particularly rich, that's just the way it goes.

But, on the other hand, you're too busy to really notice it, and there are significant upsides too. I'd rather be out with my son on a £500 bike than out on my own on a £5,000 one!

To answer your questions:

4 kids.
She's not gone back yet.
By the skin of our teeth (we took the decision to move out of the South East: had we not done so, I suspect my wife would have gone back to paid work and we'd have had fewer kids.)
Impact on bike riding: if we go out at the weekend we go slowly and don't get many miles covered, but the family enjoys it and it's a nice cheap way to spend a day.
Impact on commuting: I save about £100 per month in diesel costs. I'm spend some of that on making sure that my bike is well maintained and that I have suitable clothing and safety equipment. I can't go OTT on flashy bike and Assos gear, but am not sure that matters if I'm comfortable and the pedals keep turning.

DonDaddyD

lost_in_thought wrote:

So, how long will the marketing course + masters take?

I ask, because it seems like that might be how long the two of you have got to save enough cash to survive on your income alone for 5+years..... :twisted:

Haven't you heard the Government takes teh same percentage of income tax from me as it does you. We can go to the same parties, sit in the same seats on the bus! No longer am I pushed to the back and made to sit with the Irish and Dog's. I'm one of you! Retract the claws....

Touché however...

In other news, my cousin and his wife have a 4-year-old. In oz, if you work for the gov't (both do) you can choose who gets the maternity (longer) and the paternity (shorter) leave. She earns considerably more, so she had baby, took paternity, went back to work, whereas he took the maternity and is the main carer. He still only works part-time, and the little one is in nursery 4 days a week.

I like that system.

rjsterry

DonDaddyD wrote:

camerone wrote:

if you really dont think its fair and your girlfriend really wants to stay at home might i respectfully suggest maybe its not the right relationship to have kids. one of you is going to harbour serious resentment and then its only a matter of time

It is fair, I just didn't and I mean never thought that I would have to pay for everything.

Like I said, that's what MTFU really means.

rjsterry

daviesee wrote:

Waterproof / Breathable / Cheap - choose any 2 from 3

Babies / Money / Time - choose any 2 from 3

No. you can't have it all :roll:

You'd think someone studying marketing would know this

lost_in_thought

DonDaddyD wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

So, how long will the marketing course + masters take?

I ask, because it seems like that might be how long the two of you have got to save enough cash to survive on your income alone for 5+years..... :twisted:

Haven't you heard the Government takes teh same percentage of income tax from me as it does you. We can go to the same parties, sit in the same seats on the bus! No longer am I pushed to the back and made to sit with the Irish and Dog's. I'm one of you! Retract the claws....

Touché however...

No claws, just a statement of fact.

Regardless of income brackets, losing 50% (or 60%, 80%, 30%, whatever) of what you're accustomed to as a couple for 5+ years is something you need to plan for, if you have the luxury of knowing it's coming.

Aidy

daviesee wrote:

Babies / Money / Time - choose any 2 from 3

No. you can't have it all :roll:

I don't have any of them!

DonDaddyD

rjsterry wrote:

I take it you think Mrs DDD is less career driven or is happy to park her career for a few years? Of course it'll affect your career, but the point is that you may find raising children as if not more rewarding than your career.

To draw comparisons:

Mrs DDD has spent over 10 years building a career in Law, to my understanding in her circle, in Law there are many, she is respected and considered brilliant. I've got incredible levels of respect for her and how she achieved.

I have been working full time for 4 years. I've learned a lot about myself in these years and want to explore what I can really achieve.

I want to achieve professionally for various personal reasons. It wouldn't make me a better man or Father, but I would feel pride when looking in the mirror (not that I don't right now, I do) and would be able to provide more comfortably for my family.

I also want a Honda Civic, then a Mercedes, a four bedroom house with a garage and a big kitchen for Ms DDD, a 42-46inch TV and at least two holidays abroad. I also want to take my kids to Disney Land when they're 10. Amongst other things.

lost_in_thought

DonDaddyD wrote:

I also want a Honda Civic, then a Mercedes, a four bedroom house with a garage and a big kitchen for Ms DDD, a 42-46inch TV and at least two holidays abroad. I also want to take my kids to Disney Land when they're 10. Amongst other things.

What's the timeframe on this?

And when do the kids happen?

EDIT:

Hang on, Mrs DDD's been in law for 10 years? And that's a 5ish year qualification with the bar and articles (I think) so she's, what, 33?

kelsen

DonDaddyD wrote:

I also want a Honda Civic, then a Mercedes, a four bedroom house with a garage and a big kitchen for Ms DDD, a 42-46inch TV and at least two holidays abroad. I also want to take my kids to Disney Land when they're 10. Amongst other things.

You forgot world peace, or is that included in 'other things'?

rhext

DonDaddyD wrote:

I also want a Honda Civic, then a Mercedes, a four bedroom house with a garage and a big kitchen for Ms DDD, a 42-46inch TV and at least two holidays abroad. I also want to take my kids to Disney Land when they're 10. Amongst other things.

Most people have to take a bit of a risk on this sort of thing: wait until you're rich enough to do it, you might find that it's too late to have the kids!

DonDaddyD

rhext wrote:

But the bottom line is that when you have kids you can pretty much kiss goodbye to personal disposable income. Fancy a new bike? Junior needs some new clothes! Want to upgrade your groupset?

Something must be wrong with me, I've been trying to figure out ways to maintain or keep a disposable income and keep the family.

No claws, just a statement of fact.

Regardless of income brackets, losing 50% (or 60%, 80%, 30%, whatever) of what you're accustomed to as a couple for 5+ years is something you need to plan for, if you have the luxury of knowing it's coming.

The smiley mislead me.

It's sound advice and you're right 5 years is something that needs to planned for. I'm planning big time about everything. I'm even trying to factor in luck...