Massively offtopic: 'future financial dependants'

TommyEss

Underscore wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Weaker sex, my a*se.

Anyone who calls women the weaker sex has never had to get some of the duvet back off one in the middle of the night!

_

This...! Thankfully she's Aussie, and so feels the cold a lot more than me, so it's a rare occurence.

DDD - Good luck with all your planning - I'll shout you a cigar if you find yourself a bit short.

lost_in_thought

rjsterry wrote:

Two different kinds of spoilt there, I'd say. Resorting to a chauffeur to retrieve a forgotten pencil case, does rather suggest that the person in question has no real sense of personal responsibility (for wasting other people's time in this instance)

I reckon this idea of 'spoilt' is rather a funny one.

If you buy a child everything it wants ever and more, then it's likely to get bratty when you or someone else eventually says no. To me, that's spoilt. Kids shouldn't have their every whim catered for, it's bad for them!

The chauffeur example, although surprising, doesn't really seem like an example of someone who's spoilt, it sounds like an example of a family who has a chauffeur that regularly runs menial errands. Whatever your opinion of that, it doesn't necessarily mean the pencil-case-losing person is spoilt.

rjsterry

I gave that example more as an illustration of the fact that the person didn't have to worry about little things like remembering to turn up to a tutorial with appropriate equipment, as someone would always clear up after them, in much the same way as NGale's example.

It's not the access to the luxury of a chauffeur, but the reliance on him to do basic personal tasks.

I do agree with your first point. One of my pet hates is the 'Oh, I can't say no to them' attitude.

jedster

Whatever your opinion of that, it doesn't necessarily mean the pencil-case-losing person is spoilt.

I disagree. Anyone who thinks that they should send a person on a errand to fetch a pencil case rather than just borrowing a pen off someone nearby has been allowed to detach themselves from reality and had a common sense bypass. "Spoilt" is an appropriate description.
It is not just a question of privilige (i.e. having a chaufeur) it is using the chaufer in an utterly pointless and wasteful fashion.

Bill Gates has enough money that he could afford to light cigars with $100 bills. Doing so would be ridiculous and spoilt not just a badge of affluence.

DonDaddyD

It irks me when people say "kids shouldn't ask for things". Someone said that to my brother once and his reply was "I'm 10! What am I supposed to do". Made me laugh that did. He clearly knew, early on, that no meant no and that if someone couldn't afford something then fine, it didn't stop him asking though, which was his point.

What's the point of saying no for the sake of saying no? Unless your intention is to be mean. You're not teaching them any life lesson. Making them save for it, giving them jobs aroudn the house is surely a better lesson.

If you have a well behaved kid, who does his school work, works hard and does his chores then why would you then say no if they've asked for something and:

i) The request is reasonable - I'm not talking about a computer console, but say a computer game.

ii) You can afford it.

iii) They've even worked hard to get it.

There are many ways to teach children the value of money and no meaning no, say if you cannot afford it without simply telling them no because you don't want to or think they shouldn't have it simply because.

Aidy

WGWarburton wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

WGWarburton wrote:

Hi,

DonDaddyD wrote:

.....With the exception of one term at University (September - December) I've always had a job.

Maybe you should consider taking a year out? .

...Sorry, backpacking really isn't for me. ....

You have a real talent for missing the point, DDD!

Cheers,
W.

I keep thinking about taking a "career break" and going touring for a suitably long period of time.

jedster

Basically DDD you are mixing some different situations there.

Clearly if children work or save towards something then you should let them spend their money. I might say "are you sure that's what you really want? Wouldn't you prefer to save your money for X" but ultimately you let them choose and they learn from it.

If kids think that stuff just appears when they ask for it then why save or get a part-time job? I think it gives them unrealistic ideas of how life works. I think it leads to the view that we "deserve" stuff, a big problem in our society I reckon. Leading up to this recession people bought stuff on credit because they thought the SHOULD have it, they DESERVED it becasue other people had it. They didn't think about whether they could really afford the debt.

It's a cliche but computer games genuinely don't "grow on trees" -kids should get that message early.

rjsterry

DonDaddyD wrote:

It irks me when people say "kids shouldn't ask for things". Someone said that to my brother once and his reply was "I'm 10! What am I supposed to do". Made me laugh that did. He clearly knew, early on, that no meant no and that if someone couldn't afford something then fine, it didn't stop him asking though, which was his point.

What's the point of saying no for the sake of saying no? Unless your intention is to be mean. You're not teaching them any life lesson. Making them save for it, giving them jobs aroudn the house is surely a better lesson.

If you have a well behaved kid, who does his school work, works hard and does his chores then why would you then say no if they've asked for something and:

i) The request is reasonable - I'm not talking about a computer console, but say a computer game.

ii) You can afford it.

iii) They've even worked hard to get it.

There are many ways to teach children the value of money and no meaning no, say if you cannot afford it without simply telling them no because you don't want to or think they shouldn't have it simply because.

I think we are arguing at cross purposes here (we're also heading into dangerous don't-tell-me-how-to-bring-up-my-kids territory). I think I pretty much agree with what you've said, and I'm certainly not saying that you should say 'No' for the sake of it.

Having said that, I can certainly remember wanting things because Jonny-down-the-road had one. My parents would use the 'Not this time. See if you still want it next time we go to the shops' trick and often I would have forgotten the 'must-have' item a couple of weeks later. I still use the same approach on myself, hence my very small stable of bikes, despite hanging around here imersed in n + 1 land.

TommyEss

There is some logic in that apparent fob off for the must have thing.

I for one, didn't have a playstation until I could afford to buy one myself (at age 19 - treated myself on my gap year!)

But instead of moaning about not having one, I went round to my mates', who did have them... So perhaps I ended up being that bit more sociable than I would have couped up on my own!?

Who knows - that's the mystery isn't it?! Nature/Nurture etc. etc.

NGale

You know this thread is putting me off kids even more, I think I'll stick to owning cats

DonDaddyD

I think we are arguing at cross purposes here (we're also heading into dangerous don't-tell-me-how-to-bring-up-my-kids territory). I think I pretty much agree with what you've said, and I'm certainly not saying that you should say 'No' for the sake of it.

Having said that, I can certainly remember wanting things because Jonny-down-the-road had one. My parents would use the 'Not this time. See if you still want it next time we go to the shops' trick and often I would have forgotten the 'must-have' item a couple of weeks later. I still use the same approach on myself, hence my very small stable of bikes, despite hanging around here imersed in n + 1 land.

I agree with you.

Its a fine balance, which must consider the temprement and personality of the child you are parenting.

Parenting techniques for my brother would never work with me and visa versa.

My brother can hound you down for something but understands that no means no. This is demonstrated by his natural ability to save money and find the cheapest deal for anything.

I was a completely different animal. I had to be taught many times over that no meant no (that summer without a bike - I'll never forget that one :x ). Then as soon as my Dad could I was taught why no meant no, hence the job in McDonalds.

MonkeyMonster

DonDaddyD wrote:

I know that there are other mechanisms for teaching children the value of things.

the cane
beartraps
chopping their hands off

list is quite endless really

rjsterry

NGale wrote:

You know this thread is putting me off kids even more, I think I'll stick to owning cats

Aww, they're way better than cats. They don't (generally) vomit dead mice onto the door mat.

lost_in_thought

Being a 'weird cat lady' when I'm in my '80s is among my greatest fears.

Other fears include drowning, heights and octopi.

DonDaddyD

MonkeyMonster wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

I know that there are other mechanisms for teaching children the value of things.

the cane
beartraps
chopping their hands off

list is quite endless really

"Go an get the belt"

Never felt it, I think, but when I was bad my Mum always made me get the belt. There is something really wrong with choosing the object that was supposed to punish you....

I'd be there for several minutes mulling over the impact dynamics of each belt:

"thin strap, no that's gonna cut straight through me. Oooo that wide one is nice, the wider surface area spreads the impact... but its thin that's gonna hurt... Oooo Piere Cardin, it's padded, yeah this one"

The best punishment I ever had was when I grounded to my room and my room was stripped bare of anything that was even slightly deemed entertaining...

DonDaddyD

lost_in_thought wrote:

Being a 'weird cat lady' when I'm in my '80s is among my greatest fears.

Other fears include drowning, heights and octopi.

You better find a man!

NGale

lost_in_thought wrote:

Being a 'weird cat lady' when I'm in my '80s is among my greatest fears.

Other fears include drowning, heights and octopi.

I have to admit it is a fear of mine, but I did give in and take in a kitten which a friend of mine need to re-home which no one else wanted. Turning out to be a right little sod and has already scratched Jake more than once

I am well on the way to becoming 'cat lady'

tailwindhome

Hehehehehehehehehehe


There's nothing funnier than people with no kids discussing how kids should be raised/ disciplined

Except I suppose being a grandparent watching your kids trying to raise theirs.

That must be fricking hilarious

lost_in_thought

DonDaddyD wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

Being a 'weird cat lady' when I'm in my '80s is among my greatest fears.

Other fears include drowning, heights and octopi.

You better find a man!

What makes you think I haven't?

Aidy

lost_in_thought wrote:

Being a 'weird cat lady' when I'm in my '80s is among my greatest fears.

Other fears include drowning, heights and octopi.

Yeah, I do tend to have vague similar fears (whatever the male equivalent is anyway).
Doesn't really help when all your friends start pairing off and getting married...

Aidy

DonDaddyD wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

Being a 'weird cat lady' when I'm in my '80s is among my greatest fears.

Other fears include drowning, heights and octopi.

You better find a man!

Now now, let's be open minded, she could be looking for a woman.

cee

DonDaddyD wrote:

<snip>
"Go an get the belt"
<snip>

"thin strap, no that's gonna cut straight through me. Oooo that wide one is nice, the wider surface area spreads the impact... but its thin that's gonna hurt... Oooo Piere Cardin, it's padded, yeah this one"

I quickly learned that at christmas time...soft soled slippers were the thing my mum needed...those ones with the solid, hard rubber soles hurt far too much...

rjsterry

Having a family doesn't necessarily preclude matcatladydom. My mum is starting to show worrying first signs. We always had cats when I was growing up (despite me and one of my brothers having an allergy to cats :? - a very sneezy childhood). All the time I lived at home, the cats just got plain Whiskas out of a tin, with maybe a sprinkling of Go-Kat, but I have recently noticed on return visits that the cats are now fed these fancy individual sachet jobbies, and have acquired a range of cat 'toys'. Most worrying. Just waiting for the newspapers to start piling up (although I'm quite bad at that myself).

DonDaddyD

Tailwindhome wrote:

Hehehehehehehehehehe


There's nothing funnier than people with no kids discussing how kids should be raised/ disciplined

Except I suppose being a grandparent watching your kids trying to raise theirs.

That must be fricking hilarious

So raising a child just cam to you the moment you held yours did it? :roll:

LiT wrote:

What makes you think I haven't?

OOOooooo Who? How long you been with him? What's he like? What's he look like? Is he the one? I can't believe you're getting married!!! If you have a boy name him Laurence!

NGale

rjsterry wrote:

Having a family doesn't necessarily preclude matcatladydom. My mum is starting to show worrying first signs. We always had cats when I was growing up (despite me and one of my brothers having an allergy to cats :? - a very sneezy childhood). All the time I lived at home, the cats just got plain Whiskas out of a tin, with maybe a sprinkling of Go-Kat, but I have recently noticed on return visits that the cats are now fed these fancy individual sachet jobbies, and have acquired a range of cat 'toys'. Most worrying. Just waiting for the newspapers to start piling up (although I'm quite bad at that myself).

I perfer dogs personally, but with our jobs a dog wasn't viable, also I couldn't see this cat go without a home, it would have ended up at the Cats Protection or the RSPCA. So a cat bed, injections, cat litter and various toys later, young Nelson has made himself at home and an enemy out of Jake

TommyEss

NGale wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Having a family doesn't necessarily preclude matcatladydom. My mum is starting to show worrying first signs. We always had cats when I was growing up (despite me and one of my brothers having an allergy to cats :? - a very sneezy childhood). All the time I lived at home, the cats just got plain Whiskas out of a tin, with maybe a sprinkling of Go-Kat, but I have recently noticed on return visits that the cats are now fed these fancy individual sachet jobbies, and have acquired a range of cat 'toys'. Most worrying. Just waiting for the newspapers to start piling up (although I'm quite bad at that myself).

I perfer dogs personally, but with our jobs a dog wasn't viable, also I couldn't see this cat go without a home, it would have ended up at the Cats Protection or the RSPCA. So a cat bed, injections, cat litter and various toys later, young Nelson has made himself at home and an enemy out of Jake

Get a retired racing greyhound - all the fun of a dog - all the sleep of a cat!! Walk them for 20 minutes in the morning and they'll sleep the rest of the day!

NGale

TommyEss wrote:

NGale wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Having a family doesn't necessarily preclude matcatladydom. My mum is starting to show worrying first signs. We always had cats when I was growing up (despite me and one of my brothers having an allergy to cats :? - a very sneezy childhood). All the time I lived at home, the cats just got plain Whiskas out of a tin, with maybe a sprinkling of Go-Kat, but I have recently noticed on return visits that the cats are now fed these fancy individual sachet jobbies, and have acquired a range of cat 'toys'. Most worrying. Just waiting for the newspapers to start piling up (although I'm quite bad at that myself).

I perfer dogs personally, but with our jobs a dog wasn't viable, also I couldn't see this cat go without a home, it would have ended up at the Cats Protection or the RSPCA. So a cat bed, injections, cat litter and various toys later, young Nelson has made himself at home and an enemy out of Jake

Get a retired racing greyhound - all the fun of a dog - all the sleep of a cat!! Walk them for 20 minutes in the morning and they'll sleep the rest of the day!

Did actually look at getting a greyhound or whippet (I love those dogs), but with me working shifts and Jake on standby for deployment it wouldn't be fair to leave any dog for hours on end while I'm at work. The cat can at least make it's own way through the newly fitted cat flap.

rjsterry

@NGale: Like the suitably nautical name.

@DDD: I think TWH's comment was making the point that you might think you'll know what you'll do with children, but when they're actually there in front of you, you might act differently. I'm fairly regularly re-assessing how I think we should bring up our little one. All thee above posts can be prefixed by 'this is what I think (so far)'.

TommyEss

NGale wrote:

TommyEss wrote:

NGale wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Having a family doesn't necessarily preclude matcatladydom. My mum is starting to show worrying first signs. We always had cats when I was growing up (despite me and one of my brothers having an allergy to cats :? - a very sneezy childhood). All the time I lived at home, the cats just got plain Whiskas out of a tin, with maybe a sprinkling of Go-Kat, but I have recently noticed on return visits that the cats are now fed these fancy individual sachet jobbies, and have acquired a range of cat 'toys'. Most worrying. Just waiting for the newspapers to start piling up (although I'm quite bad at that myself).

I perfer dogs personally, but with our jobs a dog wasn't viable, also I couldn't see this cat go without a home, it would have ended up at the Cats Protection or the RSPCA. So a cat bed, injections, cat litter and various toys later, young Nelson has made himself at home and an enemy out of Jake

Get a retired racing greyhound - all the fun of a dog - all the sleep of a cat!! Walk them for 20 minutes in the morning and they'll sleep the rest of the day!

Did actually look at getting a greyhound or whippet (I love those dogs), but with me working shifts and Jake on standby for deployment it wouldn't be fair to leave any dog for hours on end while I'm at work. The cat can at least make it's own way through the newly fitted cat flap.

You'd be surprised - ours have all been fine - they really do sleep nearly all day - as my mum discovered when she come home at lunch time to discover the dog bleary-eyed trying to get himself out of his basket!

NGale

rjsterry wrote:

@NGale: Like the suitably nautical name.

@DDD: I think TWH's comment was making the point that you might think you'll know what you'll do with children, but when they're actually there in front of you, you might act differently. I'm fairly regularly re-assessing how I think we should bring up our little one. All thee above posts can be prefixed by 'this is what I think (so far)'.

well kind of had to be, especially with the black patch he has over his right eye.