Giro stage 15 *spoiler*

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  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Cumulonibus - one hint:http://tinyurl.com
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    mididoctors wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    Evans seemed to be pushing too big a gear on some sections...think Basso spun an easier gear...cadence difference was evident when they were together and when Evans let go

    Question: how do you get up the Zoncalan?


    Answer: any bl00dy way you can

    Very apt for todays winner .
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    "Today's win is a very strong signal to my adversaries and my teammates, too." - Basso

    Apparently Tondo has been sick this week and on antibiotics.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Moomaloid
    Moomaloid Posts: 2,040
    I think Cadel, for me, is going to be the rider of the year. Now who would've thought it....
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    mididoctors wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    Who are the guys with the feathers in their hats? Always see em in the Giro mountain finishes... some kind of Alpine police dudes?
    alpini

    wki fu it

    eye talian mountain corps

    hmmm.. cadel http://www.cadelevans.com.au/cadelsdiary.aspx
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • top_bhoy
    top_bhoy Posts: 1,424
    Dave_1 wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    Who are the guys with the feathers in their hats? Always see em in the Giro mountain finishes... some kind of Alpine police dudes?
    alpini

    wki fu it

    eye talian mountain corps

    hmmm.. cadel http://www.cadelevans.com.au/cadelsdiary.aspx

    An honest assessment and critique of his performance and a gracious congratulations to Basso and Porte.
    Click here to view Top_Bhoys Pedal Force:
    Click here to view Top_Bhoys RC2:
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    Top_Bhoy wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    Who are the guys with the feathers in their hats? Always see em in the Giro mountain finishes... some kind of Alpine police dudes?
    alpini

    wki fu it

    eye talian mountain corps

    hmmm.. cadel http://www.cadelevans.com.au/cadelsdiary.aspx

    An honest assessment and critique of his performance and a gracious congratulations to Basso and Porte.

    Evans didn't have much choice but to stand for most of the climb given the heavy gear he pushed...am sure Plan de Corones will see a closer duel
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Still don't understand why Basso hardly ever climbs out of the saddle or hardly unzips his jersey. Not a criticism, just an observation.

    He has one super smooth pedal stroke.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Still don't understand why Basso hardly ever climbs out of the saddle or hardly unzips his jersey.
    He seems a very passive character, whether it's his banal twitter messages or his "attempt" excuse.

    Biomechanically I suspect its because he has long legs and knows how to ride according to power and heart rate, he knows that standing up on the pedals can waste energy and that it's better to keep it as smooth as possible. His ride yesterday was a demonstration of that, even his rivals were pedalling squares.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Basso's VAM 1790.

    Simoni's in 07 was 1850
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Kléber wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Still don't understand why Basso hardly ever climbs out of the saddle or hardly unzips his jersey.
    He seems a very passive character, whether it's his banal twitter messages or his "attempt" excuse.

    Biomechanically I suspect its because he has long legs and knows how to ride according to power and heart rate, he knows that standing up on the pedals can waste energy and that it's better to keep it as smooth as possible. His ride yesterday was a demonstration of that, even his rivals were pedalling squares.

    I doubt there's that much science to it.

    Some people prefer sitting down than standing up when climbing.

    One the seriously steep stuff, sometimes sitting down gives some much needed rear wheel traction. You might see similar on the Corones, where standing up might get you nowhere.
    _
  • towpath hacker
    towpath hacker Posts: 51
    Might depend on gearing I suppose - not seen footage of the ride - but saw mention somewhere that some riders were on 34t chainrings with 28/29 up back. Not sure if Basso was one of these, and Cuddles was grinding round a 39er

    I guess most'll be on compact for the Plan de Corones...
  • kieranb
    kieranb Posts: 1,674
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Kléber wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Still don't understand why Basso hardly ever climbs out of the saddle or hardly unzips his jersey.
    He seems a very passive character, whether it's his banal twitter messages or his "attempt" excuse.

    Biomechanically I suspect its because he has long legs and knows how to ride according to power and heart rate, he knows that standing up on the pedals can waste energy and that it's better to keep it as smooth as possible. His ride yesterday was a demonstration of that, even his rivals were pedalling squares.

    I doubt there's that much science to it.

    Some people prefer sitting down than standing up when climbing.

    One the seriously steep stuff, sometimes sitting down gives some much needed rear wheel traction. You might see similar on the Corones, where standing up might get you nowhere.

    A simple test to do on the turbo, by experimenting with sitting and standing, maintaining the same speed standing increases the HR and if you are near your limits that extra bit might push you into the red. Sitting will also be more aero, although not much of an advantage at that speed.
  • greeny12
    greeny12 Posts: 759
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Kléber wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Still don't understand why Basso hardly ever climbs out of the saddle or hardly unzips his jersey.
    He seems a very passive character, whether it's his banal twitter messages or his "attempt" excuse.

    Biomechanically I suspect its because he has long legs and knows how to ride according to power and heart rate, he knows that standing up on the pedals can waste energy and that it's better to keep it as smooth as possible. His ride yesterday was a demonstration of that, even his rivals were pedalling squares.

    I doubt there's that much science to it.

    Some people prefer sitting down than standing up when climbing.

    One the seriously steep stuff, sometimes sitting down gives some much needed rear wheel traction. You might see similar on the Corones, where standing up might get you nowhere.

    I'n not so sure Rick. While I would never dream of comparing myself to Ivan Basso as a rider, I am very tall with very long legs (38" inside leg) and I've always felt that extra 'leverage' helps me on climbs, something that I'd give away if I was "doing a Cadel".

    Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen a gutsier but untidier ride than Cuddles did on that hill yesterday. He was like a monkey wrestling an octopus for most of it!
    My cycle racing blog: http://cyclingapprentice.wordpress.com/

    If you live in or near Sussex, check this out:
    http://ontherivet.ning.com/
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    kieranb wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Kléber wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Still don't understand why Basso hardly ever climbs out of the saddle or hardly unzips his jersey.
    He seems a very passive character, whether it's his banal twitter messages or his "attempt" excuse.

    Biomechanically I suspect its because he has long legs and knows how to ride according to power and heart rate, he knows that standing up on the pedals can waste energy and that it's better to keep it as smooth as possible. His ride yesterday was a demonstration of that, even his rivals were pedalling squares.

    I doubt there's that much science to it.

    Some people prefer sitting down than standing up when climbing.

    One the seriously steep stuff, sometimes sitting down gives some much needed rear wheel traction. You might see similar on the Corones, where standing up might get you nowhere.

    A simple test to do on the turbo, by experimenting with sitting and standing, maintaining the same speed standing increases the HR and if you are near your limits that extra bit might push you into the red. Sitting will also be more aero, although not much of an advantage at that speed.

    You're right. Winners never stand up when climbing...

    ArmstrongAlped'Huez.jpg

    Epsecially not on the Zoncolan:

    fs011.jpg

    When I rode over TdF mountains, I found myself spending half the time out of the saddle and the other half in. That's just felt natural.

    It just depends what you prefer, from person to person. Sod all this 'heart rate' bollocks.
    _
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    iainf72 wrote:
    Basso's VAM 1790.

    Simoni's in 07 was 1850

    and Basso could thrash Simoni in 2006, so it's the opposite of what we it should be, Basso must be a lot cleaner
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • Cumulonimbus
    Cumulonimbus Posts: 1,730
    Looks a bit unsettled this week. Tomorrow should be generally dry but there will be a small risk of thunder later on. After that it looks a bit showery with the main risk in the afternoons when the heat has had the chance to build some showers. Saturday could see the worst of the conditons. We'll see.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    From my own experience of climbing I would always stay seated if possible. Getting out of the saddle gives that little bit of extra leverage and impetus from using more muscle groups and also takes the strain off the muscles doing most of the work but staying out of the saddle for any length of time places more of a strain on you. If you are able to pedal a low gear at the necessary speed and stay in the saddle then you are onto a winner.

    I don't think that photo proves a lot to be honest, it could be that someone was attacking or it could simply be that it is from a time (top photo) where riders had less gears available to them and didn't have the luxury to ride a smaller chainring as a result. It could also be that they were struggling with a particularly steep section.
  • Roscobob
    Roscobob Posts: 344
    Mooro wrote:
    Sky plus recording finished as basso and evans were 5 k to go....

    damn it (i said worse at the time!)

    I turned the air blue!
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Like I say, Basso is riding in a very controlled manner. Even his accelerations are smooth and precise. As for in or out of the saddle, you need more oxygen to the arms when out of the saddle so it is less efficient. Yes riders do get out of the saddle but that is when they need to force the pace. But for a rider on a long mountain pass, they will do 80-95% of it seated, some might even do more in the saddle all the way.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Bettini
    fulonbasso_600.jpg
    Contador is the Greatest
  • eh
    eh Posts: 4,854
    Basso has always tended to sit and spin, thats just his style. Nothing right or wrong, just what he feels happiest with. Compare that with Virenque who stood a lot, but both are successful riders.

    NB: Good rides by Dan Martin and Charly W.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    so what are we saying here?

    believable?


    definitely terrestrial? or just closer to earth?
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,549
    The figures being bandied around on the internet are in the believeable ball park, i.e. VAM, Watts produced, watts per kg.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    mididoctors wrote:
    so what are we saying here?

    believable?


    definitely terrestrial? or just closer to earth?

    Why not?

    It's more fun when you worry about what happens on the road, rather than what happens in their veins.
    _
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    so what are we saying here?

    believable?


    definitely terrestrial? or just closer to earth?

    Why not?

    It's more fun when you worry about what happens on the road, rather than what happens in their veins.

    I know but etc.....
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Le Commentateur
    Le Commentateur Posts: 4,099
    Kléber wrote:
    Like I say, Basso is riding in a very controlled manner. Even his accelerations are smooth and precise. As for in or out of the saddle, you need more oxygen to the arms when out of the saddle so it is less efficient. Yes riders do get out of the saddle but that is when they need to force the pace. But for a rider on a long mountain pass, they will do 80-95% of it seated, some might even do more in the saddle all the way.

    Yes, it was a perfect illustration of the superiority of ITS climbing over a longer distance. What's intriguing is that both riders are trained by the same guy.
    Un uomo solo al commando

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