Floyd -- he wrote us a letter...

iainf72

dennisn wrote:

Personally, I think if this thing goes where Landis is trying to push it that he will get torn apart and spit out by some really high end lawyers.

Where is he trying to push it then?

dennisn

iainf72 wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Personally, I think if this thing goes where Landis is trying to push it that he will get torn apart and spit out by some really high end lawyers.

Where is he trying to push it then?

I thought he was pushing for a cleanup of the sport, a clear conscience, and for revenge on whomever he considers "done him wrong". Isn't that the general idea?
All I know is that he seems to be p*ssing off some heavy hitters(right or wrong).

iainf72

dennisn wrote:

I thought he was pushing for a cleanup of the sport, a clear conscience, and for revenge on whomever he considers "done him wrong". Isn't that the general idea?
All I know is that he seems to be p*ssing off some heavy hitters(right or wrong).

I don't think he's trying to get revenge on anyone. After all, he says he feels no guilt about what he did he's just fed up lying about it.

He's mentioned some things - Those things, if they occurred, would be crimes in the US and quite serious ones at that. The federal authorities may pursue those but that will be their case, I doubt very much Landis expected it to turn into a criminal investigation.

dennisn

iainf72 wrote:

dennisn wrote:

I thought he was pushing for a cleanup of the sport, a clear conscience, and for revenge on whomever he considers "done him wrong". Isn't that the general idea?
All I know is that he seems to be p*ssing off some heavy hitters(right or wrong).

I don't think he's trying to get revenge on anyone. After all, he says he feels no guilt about what he did he's just fed up lying about it.

He's mentioned some things - Those things, if they occurred, would be crimes in the US and quite serious ones at that. The federal authorities may pursue those but that will be their case, I doubt very much Landis expected it to turn into a criminal investigation.

I only mentioned the revenge thing because it had been brought up in a previous post and the writer seemed sure that this was an issue with FL? Maybe, maybe not. Whoa, does that mean that someone on the Internet was WRONG? Now we really are in trouble.
Whether he expected "the fed's" to get involved or not, only he knows, but if they do jump on board I sure don't see his life getting "better" because of it. They aren't the type of people you want to have around you a lot. Even if they are on your side.

andyp

dennisn wrote:

Whether he expected "the fed's" to get involved or not, only he knows, but if they do jump on board I sure don't see his life getting "better" because of it. They aren't the type of people you want to have around you a lot. Even if they are on your side.

Speaking from experience Dennis?

I wish you'd actually read some of the linked articles, as you might then know that ifs about the Feds involvement, they are speaking to Landis.

emadden

dennisn wrote:

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

This thread is on target to be the longest ever... bigger than girls in lycra.

Keep going

I disagree. You guys are much more interested, in the long run, with butts and boobs
than you'll ever be with LA, FL, and for that matter any male cyclist.
Well, most of you.

We can be interested in both

dennisn

andyp wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Whether he expected "the fed's" to get involved or not, only he knows, but if they do jump on board I sure don't see his life getting "better" because of it. They aren't the type of people you want to have around you a lot. Even if they are on your side.

Speaking from experience Dennis?



I wish you'd actually read some of the linked articles, as you might then know that ifs about the Feds involvement, they are speaking to Landis.

.... experience?? Strangely enough yes, but very limited. Not anyone I want to see on a regular basis.

I have no doubt that "they" are speaking to FL. Whomever "they" might actually be. Who, in what branch of what???

rockmount

andyp wrote:

I wish you'd actually read some of the linked articles, as you might then know that ifs about the Feds involvement, they are speaking to Landis.

And ... what's your point ?

andyp

Typo - it should have said "there are no ifs".

rockmount

andyp wrote:

Typo - it should have said "there are no ifs".

Seriously though ... what are you saying, do you have a point ??

blazing_saddles

rockmount wrote:

andyp wrote:

Typo - it should have said "there are no ifs".

Seriously though ... what are you saying, do you have a point ??

He does, but as usual, you don't.

iainf72

Disappointed in Millar to be honest

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_15175682?

Something that bothers me - The concentrating on the alleged positive in the TdS. Flandis is just relaying something he was told, as far as I can figure out. He doesn't have first hand knowledge of whether it happened, but someone said it did. So you can't say he's lying about that. It may not be accurate, but if you were trying to convince someone it's ok to dope you may like them to think you'd got the governing body in your back pocket.

jim453

Can't be bothered reading any more of this.


The whole thing is a terribly depressing mess.


Everyone here knows what has gone on before. Does anyone seriously believe LA is clean and always has been? Or the majority of the peloton for that matter?


They've all talked themselves into a corner by proclaiming there total innocence so many times. They can't reasonably say anything else now without looking very publicly and shamefully like the liars they are.

eg.

"This is not Disneyland, or Hollywood. I'll give you an example: I've read that I flew up the hills and mountains of France. But you don't fly up a hill. You struggle slowly and painfully up a hill, and maybe, if you work very hard, you get to the top ahead of everybody else." — Lance Armstrong

I have sympathy for Landis for some reason. He's probably consumed with bitterness for being hung out to dry while significant others not only get away with it but are lauded as saints for superhuman efforts in all kinds of adversity.

Was a time when I was a total LA believer. I really bought into the inspirational story etc etc etc.

Very dissapointed now. Sigh.


Forget the first bit. I'll continue to read (and enjoy) all the posts from people who know much more than me.

Cycling's losing though. Badly.

Shame.

Richrd2205

iainf72 wrote:

Disappointed in Millar to be honest

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_15175682?

Something that bothers me - The concentrating on the alleged positive in the TdS. Flandis is just relaying something he was told, as far as I can figure out. He doesn't have first hand knowledge of whether it happened, but someone said it did. So you can't say he's lying about that. It may not be accurate, but if you were trying to convince someone it's ok to dope you may like them to think you'd got the governing body in your back pocket.

You've posted some really good links, Iain, but part of me wishes that you hadn't posted that one...
The middle bit of the Millar quotes makes sense, but the start & the end really undermine a lot of what he claims to say. He appears to be upset at FL undermining the Garmin "brand" rather than commenting on anything he is saying. It's not too different from the Radioshack "denial," & am really quite sad & disappointed to read it.

rockmount

Blazing Saddles wrote:

rockmount wrote:

andyp wrote:

Typo - it should have said "there are no ifs".

Seriously though ... what are you saying, do you have a point ??

He does, but as usual, you don't.

Well perhaps you could explain it ... or are you too busy choking on bile !!

DavMartinR

I the link that Ian posted it says Novitzky has spoken with several cycling figures in Southern California?

Is this where the USADA is based? If not does anybody know who that could be?

afx237vi

iainf72 wrote:

Disappointed in Millar to be honest

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_15175682?

Oh David, David... the "sober and married" bit is a cheap-shot. I was expecting him to call Floyd a "nutter" in the next paragraph.

Bakunin

Millar didn't say anything about Dave Z.

In an earlier interview, Millar called Valverde a tragedy of the system, but Landis gets no slack at all.

He complains that Landis just "wants to burn the house down." Is that really what Landis is doing here? He doesn't have the power to do that.

Does Millar's reaction tell us what people behind the scenes really think about these allegations? Lance isn't that worried, he's in Europe getting ready.

mididoctors

iainf72 wrote:

Disappointed in Millar to be honest

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_15175682?

Something that bothers me - The concentrating on the alleged positive in the TdS. Flandis is just relaying something he was told, as far as I can figure out. He doesn't have first hand knowledge of whether it happened, but someone said it did. So you can't say he's lying about that. It may not be accurate, but if you were trying to convince someone it's ok to dope you may like them to think you'd got the governing body in your back pocket.

that is hearsay even if it came out of LA's mouth to landis...isn't it?

the helicopter story is likely to get shot down

[rant]Millar is p!ssed off Garmin's been dragged in... tough I say even if you feel you have turned "the corner"


I dont buy the hurting innocent people thing too much mainly because the suppression of History places them all in jeopardy no matter what the source is..

if you create a squeaky clean team that includes ex dopers now on the straight and narrow the Innocents involved with that squad are exposed to danger from revelations

you placed everybody in a tough position by covering up the past and playing a game of "half truth and half confession"... every time there is an omission lie in "the story" no matter what the motive you have taken a risk... a calculated risk

LA placed the ENTIRE peloton in this position... Millar is doing the same thing despite being clean because he (and JV) want to firewall the story a point of their convenience which meant they got back into bed with the" LA JB trek Versus US mythos"

whether they think so or not.... even Millar says there is probably some truth to it and the IRony s taht the honesty portrayed by Milllar et al as the repentant one has backfired because you dont want to commit the whole way


yes Landis is doing for petty revenge and Yes i get why they are angry with him...tough..

its a situation they helped create and crucially help MAINTAIN... even more so because they place store in there own credibility which JB LA can USE for there own ends.. their(Garmins) supposed credibility is a currency others tap into...they are being used

if your going to be party to some new status quo (unwitting or not) which is "somewhat better" than the previous one then the person they should really be angry with is LA and JB for not paying Landis off!

Landis was LA's problem..if this omerta thing has any bloody mileage or worth in it then LA should have never of let it come to this and got the this utter tool landis a job somehow!

if the "Boss" cant arrange that then WTF is the point of carrying on with this charade

its not like it works anyway..thats what gets me its a rubbish system that is only fooling fools ... pulling the wool over the eyes of the; stupid ,naive and ignorant anit really a stable system...is it?

look at where we are all at now with preposterous state of affairs

Its JB and LA that got "you lot" into this mess so dont use up all your anger for Landis

Here's a suggestion of how you "pros" can handle this situation in house Omerta style...how about LA and JB fall on their swords for the benefit of everyone else...eh?

that would minimize the damage

[/rant]

Bakunin

I understand the rant, but we don't need the homophobia.

Anonymous

Bakunin wrote:

I understand the rant, but we don't need the homophobia.

+1.

iainf72

First lot of collateral damage

Bahati Racing is closing down according to rumours.

The internetz may have jumped the gun. OUCH and Landis off, team continues

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ouch-la ... ith-bahati

rapid_uphill

Anything Millar has to say is not worth listening too. talk about kettle, pot, black.
If anyone sounds bitter it would be Millar, accusing Landis of being drunk, mental and wotever. Theres no need for the cheap shots.

iainf72

Slipstreams management statement

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/05/ ... ion_118885


We expect anyone in our organization who is contacted by any cycling, anti-doping, or government authority will be open and honest with that authority. In that context, we expect nothing short of 100% truthfulness – whatever that truth is – to the questions they are asked. As long as they express the truth about the past to the appropriate parties, they will continue to have a place in our organization and we will support them for living up to the promise we gave the world when we founded Slipstream Sports

To me, this reads like some of them have already been offered a deal of some sort. The "continue to have a place in our organization" piece smacks of it.

No_Ta_Doctor

Superb rant mididoctors. I couldn't have screamed it, frothing at the mouth, better myself. Totally agree. EDIT: will echo the sentiments above re homophobia.

Landis may well be the biggest p*** to ever sit on a saddle (can think of at least one other contender) but the anger against him is entirely misplaced. Doping is a cancer in cycling and so far it's mainly been addressed by a bit of cosmetic surgery. Landis is all masked up with a scalpel in hand, it's what cycling has needed for ages. Cycling can't just move on to a clean future until it's properly dealt with its past - some of which is alarmingly still present...

BikingBernie

iainf72 wrote:

Slipstreams management statement

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/05/ ... ion_118885

To me, this reads like some of them have already been offered a deal of some sort. The "continue to have a place in our organization" piece smacks of it.

It is a positive response though, isn't it? As they say, whilst you can't change the past it is quite possible to speak the truth now, and committing to their riders helps to ensure that they will feel that they can speak the truth, which is exactly what is needed.

No_Ta_Doctor

iainf72 wrote:

Slipstreams management statement

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/05/ ... ion_118885


We expect anyone in our organization who is contacted by any cycling, anti-doping, or government authority will be open and honest with that authority. In that context, we expect nothing short of 100% truthfulness – whatever that truth is – to the questions they are asked. As long as they express the truth about the past to the appropriate parties, they will continue to have a place in our organization and we will support them for living up to the promise we gave the world when we founded Slipstream Sports

To me, this reads like some of them have already been offered a deal of some sort. The "continue to have a place in our organization" piece smacks of it.

That's actually excellent news. The price for breaking omerta has traditionally been the complete loss of your present and any future career in cycling. For a team to come out and say "don't worry about it, your future is safe" is huge. It's vastly different to the "we have full confidence our riders are clean, have always been clean, and will obviously cooperate fully as they have nothing to hide" line that's pretty much standard fare elsewhere. I hope it's genuine and sincere, because it's the sort of thing we need to see more of. It's enough to make me think I might even start watching cycling again....

snakeeater

I still think Kevin Livingstone quit his relationship with LA due to what he knew and didnt want to spit in the soup so he joined telecom only to find out they were all doing the same. So he quit cycling.

IanLD

Agree that the Garmin statement is good, but I would still think that a rider who now declares he did dope in the past will find it difficult at contract renewal time.

A way round this would be to guarantee them a place in the following year's squad if they provide some information that does assist the enquiries (assuming they are now clean).

disgruntledgoat

I'm quite heartened by that Garmin response.