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Come home Vino, all is forgiven...

BakuninBakunin Posts: 868
edited May 2010 in Pro race
Interesting quotes from Vino:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/04/ ... %99_113088


“I condemn doping and I am working hard to prove that my victories are clean,” Vinokourov said Sunday.

“I paid two years and now I want to show I can win without doping.”

“After 2007, I was stopped two years for doping, two years that were very hard for me. I am here without doping and to show that I can win big races. I have worked hard and people can have confidence in me. I also have my experience. I have worked very hard to return to good condition. Today is a beautiful revenge for me.”

“After my ban, I realized I could not work with Ferrari any more. I have not worked with any special trainer since then. I have more than 10 years experience, so I train alone and sometimes get advice from our team trainer,” he said.



Is he admitting his cycling transgressions here? Will he now join the Gang of Admired Repentant Dopers (Millar, Sella, Basso, Sinkewitz)?

What a day -- a good race and a public confession.
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  • BikingBernieBikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    “After my ban, I realized I could not work with Ferrari any more..."
    I wonder what his issue with Ferrari is?
  • BakuninBakunin Posts: 868
    Is this the anatomy of a cycling conversion? Praise the Lord, and you can keep the EPO...I don't need it.

    David Millar better move over, here comes Vino!


    When asked if he condemned doping today, he was nearly incredulous:

    "Why would I not? Obviously, we must fight doping. Some still play with fire, but we must work to achieve something. That is why I want to show what I do now. As for 2007? I do not want to return to it. I served my two year suspension..."

    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/3930/ ... eturn.aspx
  • Richrd2205Richrd2205 Posts: 1,267
    I guess my issue with this is the following:
    “I condemn doping and I am working hard to prove that my victories are clean,” what exactly is he doing to prove this? Have I missed something?
    He's riding in the same way he was before his ban & says just what a PR advisor would tell him to. I'm not sure the interview on its own tells us anything at all. Time will tell whether this interview represents what he now feels or whether it's PR
  • pedro118118pedro118118 Posts: 1,102
    I must say, I almost felt a little sorry for Vino as he crossed the line to a chorus of boos and downturned thumbs. Almost.

    He doesn't come across as being genuinely sorry. Sorry he got caught, for sure, but he seems to think that was a chapter of his racing career that went wrong and now he's trying to write a new one.

    I've said on this forum before, charm and spin goes a long way. That's why the likes of Ricco and Vino are vilified and the likes of Millar is now some uber-popular anti-doping champion. Anyone can spill their guts to the cameras, but perhaps some rider feel that many others are still cheating and getting away with it.
  • phil sphil s Posts: 1,128
    Whatever Vino is saying it seems to have curried favour with Prudhomme

    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/3928/Prudhomme-says-no-problems-with-Vinokourov-in-the-Tour-de-France.aspx
    -- Dirk Hofman Motorhomes --
  • andypandyp Posts: 8,596
    Richrd2205 wrote:
    I guess my issue with this is the following:
    “I condemn doping and I am working hard to prove that my victories are clean,” what exactly is he doing to prove this? Have I missed something?
    He's riding in the same way he was before his ban & says just what a PR advisor would tell him to. I'm not sure the interview on its own tells us anything at all. Time will tell whether this interview represents what he now feels or whether it's PR

    Agreed. It's odd that he felt compelled to make this statement just after his win yesterday. Why hasn't he been telling everyone this since his return last year?

    It smacks of PR to me.
  • I like vino. I feel sorry for him he has to play this silly little game of crymoar in front of the camera so people don't boo him.

    Do these people boo other known dopers? :roll: Just a sad bandwagon.
    The British Empire never died, it just moved to the Velodrome
  • BikingBernieBikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    Let's face it. Vino's 'real' crime was getting caught. There are plenty of other riders who have based an entire career on doping, some guided by Vino's old 'trainer' Ferrari, who people would defend to last, even though they are just as guilty.

    That said. given the result I am glad that I was too busy yesterday to watch the race...
  • pedro118118pedro118118 Posts: 1,102
    Let's face it. Vino's 'real' crime was getting caught. There are plenty of other riders who have based an entire career on doping, some guided by Vino's old 'trainer' Ferrari, who people would defend to last, even though they are just as guilty.

    That said. given the result I am glad that I was too busy yesterday to watch the race...

    Frankly you didn't miss much.
    Apart from Gilbert's (ill-fated) late charge to bridge to Kolobnev/Vino, which blew Valv.Piti and Cuddles away; and the comical amount of "PHiL" painted on the road all the way up La Redoute!
  • Tom ButcherTom Butcher Posts: 7,137
    He's served his time and he's entitled to come back. I can't see that there is much difference between Vino and Basso except that Vino served a longer ban - Basso seemed to get his backdated to his CSC days despite having signed for Discovery after that.

    Yea Basso has played the post ban PR better - maybe that's not Vino's personality - and when he does say something along those lines he gets criticised because it smacks of PR. If he's found to have doped again he'll get a deserved life ban - until then he's no different to Basso, Millar et al in terms of his doping past.

    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • stagehopperstagehopper Posts: 1,593
    I've said on this forum before, charm and spin goes a long way. That's why the likes of Ricco and Vino are vilified and the likes of Millar is now some uber-popular anti-doping champion. Anyone can spill their guts to the cameras, but perhaps some rider feel that many others are still cheating and getting away with it.

    If you were media-friendly before getting caught for doping it's much easier to be "forgiven" as instinctively your PR will be better in your post-suspension career.
  • All just words.

    If he is as strong as before, as strong as when he doped there are only 2 conclusions a rational person can draw

    1. The doping did not work
    2. The doping *still* works

    Personally I think the performance of an athlete is the best doping test: if it is improbably strong then they're probably cheating.

    Believe what you want but Vino's victory tarnishes L-B-L and cycling further and his words deepen the damage by undermining those who say the same things from the middle of the pack.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,009 Lives Here
    andyp wrote:
    Richrd2205 wrote:
    I guess my issue with this is the following:
    “I condemn doping and I am working hard to prove that my victories are clean,” what exactly is he doing to prove this? Have I missed something?
    He's riding in the same way he was before his ban & says just what a PR advisor would tell him to. I'm not sure the interview on its own tells us anything at all. Time will tell whether this interview represents what he now feels or whether it's PR

    Agreed. It's odd that he felt compelled to make this statement just after his win yesterday. Why hasn't he been telling everyone this since his return last year?

    It smacks of PR to me.

    I doubt anyone would listen to him before he won Liege.
  • DaveyLDaveyL Posts: 5,167
    All just words.

    If he is as strong as before, as strong as when he doped there are only 2 conclusions a rational person can draw

    1. The doping did not work
    2. The doping *still* works

    Personally I think the performance of an athlete is the best doping test: if it is improbably strong then they're probably cheating.

    Believe what you want but Vino's victory tarnishes L-B-L and cycling further and his words deepen the damage by undermining those who say the same things from the middle of the pack.

    It tarnishes L-B-L??? Have you seen the list of previous winners?
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • sherersherer Posts: 2,448
    love his style and great to see riders attack and animate races. Who else would come back to their first race since the ban in the Vino-4-ever jersey he wore.

    Not sure how to read his comments on Ferrari is he saying he used Ferrari to cheat before or just that he can't use him because of his suspect past.
  • Monty DogMonty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Probably because the PR people at Astana don't pump out volumes of bull$hit in English!
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • Meds1962Meds1962 Posts: 391
    All just words.


    Personally I think the performance of an athlete is the best doping test: if it is improbably strong then they're probably cheating.

    I understand what you mean, the likes of Ricco easily dropping people on the 08 Tour etc, but it's too subjective ie. would you say Cancellara's performances are improbably strong or that he is just a superb athlete in peak form?
    O na bawn i fel LA
  • pedro118118pedro118118 Posts: 1,102
    Vino has never been the most charismatic - makes Ivan Drago look like Bruce Forsyth. Even in his T-Mobile days, he was a man of few (interesting words). That isn't going to change post-ban - it is sort of like the cringe-inducing smile on Gorton Brown's face - it just isn't right.

    Like it or not - the rules provide for a comeback following suspension. He's served his ban - just like Ricco, Basso, Scarponi, Millar etc.

    Whether or not he assisted the Authorities during the investigation (into doping) or not, he took his ban on the chin (and didn't do a Landis through the courts) and has done his time.

    Them's the rules.

    Doesn't mean I have to like him though. Then again, I never did really...
  • warrior4lifewarrior4life Posts: 1,127
    sherer wrote:
    love his style and great to see riders attack and animate races. Who else would come back to their first race since the ban in the Vino-4-ever jersey he wore.

    Not sure how to read his comments on Ferrari is he saying he used Ferrari to cheat before or just that he can't use him because of his suspect past.

    +1
  • SpaceJunkSpaceJunk Posts: 1,157

    Whether or not he assisted the Authorities during the investigation (into doping) or not, he took his ban on the chin (and didn't do a Landis through the courts) and has done his time.

    Them's the rules.

    Doesn't mean I have to like him though. Then again, I never did really...

    Actually he was quite happy to go to the courts (CAS) to make sure he didn't have to pay out his entire 2007 salary to the UCI for failing a dope test, as per the charter he signed.
  • sherersherer Posts: 2,448
    has anyone paid their 2 years salary as per the charter ? AFAIK none of them have yet.

    You can't blood dope on your own but the UCI never looked into that and as we know there are quite a few teams that have questionable pasts who are still allowed in the PT
  • dennisndennisn Posts: 10,542
    sherer wrote:
    has anyone paid their 2 years salary as per the charter ? AFAIK none of them have yet.

    You can't blood dope on your own but the UCI never looked into that and as we know there are quite a few teams that have questionable pasts who are still allowed in the PT

    Questionable is not the same thing as guilty. Just because YOU THINK I'm a killer, doper, whatever, doesn't mean I am one.
  • afx237viafx237vi Posts: 12,630
    dennisn wrote:
    sherer wrote:
    has anyone paid their 2 years salary as per the charter ? AFAIK none of them have yet.

    You can't blood dope on your own but the UCI never looked into that and as we know there are quite a few teams that have questionable pasts who are still allowed in the PT

    Questionable is not the same thing as guilty. Just because YOU THINK I'm a killer, doper, whatever, doesn't mean I am one.

    Isn't that how juries work?
  • dennisndennisn Posts: 10,542
    afx237vi wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    sherer wrote:
    has anyone paid their 2 years salary as per the charter ? AFAIK none of them have yet.

    You can't blood dope on your own but the UCI never looked into that and as we know there are quite a few teams that have questionable pasts who are still allowed in the PT

    Questionable is not the same thing as guilty. Just because YOU THINK I'm a killer, doper, whatever, doesn't mean I am one.

    Isn't that how juries work?

    Absolutely. Key word "juries".
  • afx237viafx237vi Posts: 12,630
    dennisn wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    Questionable is not the same thing as guilty. Just because YOU THINK I'm a killer, doper, whatever, doesn't mean I am one.

    Isn't that how juries work?

    Absolutely. Key word "juries".

    Bunch of people sit in a room together, argue amongst themselves, then make their mind up. Bunch of people sit on the internet (not literally), argue amongst themselves, then make their mind up. Apart from the stakes being a little higher in a jury room, I don't see much difference.
  • DunkeldogDunkeldog Posts: 138
    What we as an internet community feel has a limited resonance, I think more importantly is how the peloton welcomes back these reformed dopers and it seemed to me Contador had no worries being seen heartily congratulating Vino yesterday.
  • dennisndennisn Posts: 10,542
    afx237vi wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    Questionable is not the same thing as guilty. Just because YOU THINK I'm a killer, doper, whatever, doesn't mean I am one.

    Isn't that how juries work?

    Absolutely. Key word "juries".

    Bunch of people sit in a room together, argue amongst themselves, then make their mind up. Bunch of people sit on the internet (not literally), argue amongst themselves, then make their mind up. Apart from the stakes being a little higher in a jury room, I don't see much difference.

    In a jury room all twelve people must agree. On this forum, even finding two or three to
    think alike is a major challenge. One thing I did learn while being on a jury was that the only decision you have to make is whether he / she BROKE the law. Not whether the law is a just or unjust law. Not whether you feel sympathy for them or not. Did they break the law - period? End of jury deliberations.
  • BakuninBakunin Posts: 868
    Dunkeldog wrote:
    What we as an internet community feel has a limited resonance, I think more importantly is how the peloton welcomes back these reformed dopers and it seemed to me Contador had no worries being seen heartily congratulating Vino yesterday.

    Gilbert said the following:

    He also paid tribute to the winner, Vinokourov, who, like Gilbert, lives in Monaco. "It's the first or second victory [this season] for Vinokourov. He has a lot of class. I've seen him during the holidays and he didn't look bad. He was good."

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gilbert ... e-in-liege
  • Dave_1Dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    dennisn wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    Questionable is not the same thing as guilty. Just because YOU THINK I'm a killer, doper, whatever, doesn't mean I am one.

    Isn't that how juries work?

    Absolutely. Key word "juries".

    Bunch of people sit in a room together, argue amongst themselves, then make their mind up. Bunch of people sit on the internet (not literally), argue amongst themselves, then make their mind up. Apart from the stakes being a little higher in a jury room, I don't see much difference.

    In a jury room all twelve people must agree. On this forum, even finding two or three to
    think alike is a major challenge. One thing I did learn while being on a jury was that the only decision you have to make is whether he / she BROKE the law. Not whether the law is a just or unjust law. Not whether you feel sympathy for them or not. Did they break the law - period? End of jury deliberations.

    I disagree Dennis...there are 10 to 15 people on here who are pretty much singing from the same hymn sheet on the Lance topic...AFX, Andyp, Blaze, Iainf, Kleber,..all of them being the conductors of such Armstrong threads come July. There are clearly defined groups on the pro race forum who agree on most things.
  • andypandyp Posts: 8,596
    Which reminds me, we're due a meeting of the anti-lance brigade. :wink:
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