Come home Vino, all is forgiven...
Comments
-
iainf72 wrote:Looks at say, Basso and Ricco or Rasmussen. Why did Ivan get a decent gig and the other 2 not. Too high a risk? Their attitudes? Or did they not even give a sense they'd "changed"?
I would say that Ivan is the darling of Italy, the same way Sasha is a national treasure in Kazakhstan.0 -
iainf72 wrote:Blazing Saddles wrote:Then Vino is lucky, as is Millar, who just got inside the deadline and Basso, who was only thinking about it.
Different circumstances, but all 3 are fortunate.
2 of them did things to demonstrate they'd changed. And they're both fairly likeable characters. The other kept mucking around all through his suspension.
They're all different cases
Looks at say, Basso and Ricco or Rasmussen. Why did Ivan get a decent gig and the other 2 not. Too high a risk? Their attitudes? Or did they not even give a sense they'd "changed"?
They are bound to be under extra scrutiny after a doping thing. Add that to the fact that "some people just don't know how to act right", to quote an old saying.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:http://cyclocosm.com/2010/04/how-the-race-was-won-liege-bastogne-liege-2010/
Cyclocosm on what he feels the press should be reporting.
Thanks for the link Rick. You posted as I was having my rant.
I feel less like a lone voice in the wilderness
0 -
SecretSqirrel wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:http://cyclocosm.com/2010/04/how-the-race-was-won-liege-bastogne-liege-2010/
Cyclocosm on what he feels the press should be reporting.
Thanks for the link Rick. You posted as I was having my rant.
I feel less like a lone voice in the wilderness
It's a very good blog.0 -
But iain, surely what you're vilifying Vino for - carrying on as he did before - is exactly what made him so popular i.e. his do or die attacking style? Personally I'd like to have seen Kolobnev get something but then Katusha are just a bit dodgy aren't they?
For once I agree with dennis - served his time, end of. Vino is an aggressive rider - what's he supposed to do, ride meekly at the back of the peloton beating his breast chanting 'me culpa'?0 -
Simple solution:
Get all the worms out of the woodwork by allowing an amnesty, then all riders have to publicise their bio passport, offer DNA, regular testing obviously etc, then anyone caught doping in future, banned for life end of story !!0 -
iainf72 wrote:Blazing Saddles wrote:Then Vino is lucky, as is Millar, who just got inside the deadline and Basso, who was only thinking about it.
Different circumstances, but all 3 are fortunate.
2 of them did things to demonstrate they'd changed. And they're both fairly likeable characters. The other kept mucking around all through his suspension.
They're all different cases
Looks at say, Basso and Ricco or Rasmussen. Why did Ivan get a decent gig and the other 2 not. Too high a risk? Their attitudes? Or did they not even give a sense they'd "changed"?
Iain -- how would you assess the retired Bernhard Kohl, Sella, and Sinkwitz? Are they "good" bad guys or "bad" bad guys?
I think Millar, Basso, Vino, and the rest should never be able to ride again on the Pro Tour level; they should do two year ban and then earn whatever money they can on the Professional Continental level (or lower). It is the UCI who should set terms, not an agreement amongst Pro Tour teams.0 -
Bakunin wrote:
Iain -- how would you assess the retired Bernhard Kohl, Sella, and Sinkwitz? Are they "good" bad guys or "bad" bad guys?
Kohl is ok - I reckon he knows that sans dopage he could never perform at the top level so just left. Sella provided some useful information and now rides like a leaking sack of poop, so he's "changed" They're both self serving though
Stinky - Dunno. I think it was Millar who said he had a pretty serious reputation as a serial doper for years which is why no one wants to touch him.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
well if its any consolation, Vino has been banned from the forum.
Ave sense of humour failure Calves0 -
iainf72 wrote:Bakunin wrote:
Iain -- how would you assess the retired Bernhard Kohl, Sella, and Sinkwitz? Are they "good" bad guys or "bad" bad guys?
Kohl is ok - I reckon he knows that sans dopage he could never perform at the top level so just left. Sella provided some useful information and now rides like a leaking sack of poop, so he's "changed" They're both self serving though
Stinky - Dunno. I think it was Millar who said he had a pretty serious reputation as a serial doper for years which is why no one wants to touch him.
so did Ricco though he was a known doper as a kid and boasted about it then and with the stories about his ex gf I can't see that changing it is ingrained into his way of thinking.
The UCI did have a rule that once you got a 2 year ban it was then 2 years at Continental level but so far that only seems to have happened with Heras not sure why he was hung out to dry when others have returned0 -
micron wrote:But iain, surely what you're vilifying Vino for - carrying on as he did before - is exactly what made him so popular i.e. his do or die attacking style? Personally I'd like to have seen Kolobnev get something but then Katusha are just a bit dodgy aren't they?
For once I agree with dennis - served his time, end of. Vino is an aggressive rider - what's he supposed to do, ride meekly at the back of the peloton beating his breast chanting 'me culpa'?
What makes Katusha dodgy? Other than being Russian of course.
You watch to many James Bond re-runsIt's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
Timoid. wrote:micron wrote:But iain, surely what you're vilifying Vino for - carrying on as he did before - is exactly what made him so popular i.e. his do or die attacking style? Personally I'd like to have seen Kolobnev get something but then Katusha are just a bit dodgy aren't they?
For once I agree with dennis - served his time, end of. Vino is an aggressive rider - what's he supposed to do, ride meekly at the back of the peloton beating his breast chanting 'me culpa'?
What makes Katusha dodgy? Other than being Russian of course.
You watch to many James Bond re-runs
Well Kolobnev is dodgy, that's for sure.
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes ... idep_8/Tes
Valverde named in his second "operation". (see other thread)
The whole LBL podium are "suspicious", yet Vino gets singled out for the treatment.
(I haven't heard Piti saying sorry recently, either!)"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Timoid. wrote:micron wrote:But iain, surely what you're vilifying Vino for - carrying on as he did before - is exactly what made him so popular i.e. his do or die attacking style? Personally I'd like to have seen Kolobnev get something but then Katusha are just a bit dodgy aren't they?
For once I agree with dennis - served his time, end of. Vino is an aggressive rider - what's he supposed to do, ride meekly at the back of the peloton beating his breast chanting 'me culpa'?
What makes Katusha dodgy? Other than being Russian of course.
You watch to many James Bond re-runs
Pfannberger and Colom?0 -
Pfannenburger and Colom can count against a lot of other teams. Do you think Colom was clean at IB or Astana? or was Pfannberger clean at Corti's Barloworld?
Katusha is no worse than most pro teams. There is wierd perception that cos they're Russian, they're bad.
By your logic BMC are dodgier than Lampre.
Only FdJ, BT, Cofiis (probably) and Garmin can hold their heads up. The rest are all the same. Except for Lampre and Footon who are worse.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
Timoid. wrote:Pfannenburger and Colom can count against a lot of other teams. Do you think Colom was clean at IB or Astana? or was Pfannberger clean at Corti's Barloworld?
Katusha is no worse than most pro teams. There is wierd perception that cos they're Russian, they're bad.
By your logic BMC are dodgier than Lampre.
Only FdJ, BT, Cofiis (probably) and Garmin can hold their heads up. The rest are all the same. Except for Lampre and Footon who are worse.
It doesn't matter when Colom and Pfannberger started doping - the fact is they were both doing it while they employed by Katusha, which must say something about the way Katusha operates.
Talking of weird perceptions though, are BMC not automatically lumped in with the "good" teams because they're a) Anglophone and b) owned by Andy Rihs, who most people agree is A Nice Chap. They may not be as bad as Lampre or Footon yet, but at what point do we start asking the question?0 -
Robbie's take on it:i have to say, I agree with Vino http://bit.ly/9BUH6j he cheated, served his ban, came back remorseful + humble. congratulate him for L-B-LContador is the Greatest0
-
Bradley's take on it............"After Liege there was this thing with Vinokourov. But the guy has made a return to bike racing and he's allowed to race under the rules of cycling. As long as that's the case and he's in the team which complies with the blood passport, we have to get off his back and give him the chance to race. There's a lot of hypocrites in this sport. It's quite sad the sport sometimes gets dragged down by bringing up the past. You have to assume everyone is clean until they test positive."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-savours-pink-jersey-moment0 -
Is that's Brad's way of saying "unless you fail a test you're not doping?"Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0
-
iainf72 wrote:Is that's Brad's way of saying "unless you fail a test you're not doping?"
I think that is the new mantra, either that or our Brad is really mellowing with age.
What about this bit?......"We believe in what we do and stick with it 100 per cent, but we don’t go out there and accuse everyone else because they don't follow our philosophy. We do what we do and we don't care what anyone else does. We not one for walking round preaching about not taking drugs. We're not fighting to be 100 per cent clean. It's just the way we do it and the way I prefer to compete."
:shock: What have they doing to him at sky. That's one chimp that has been well and truely exorcised.0 -
I read that interview with my eyes rolling. I hope that what he means is that we're not fighting for the whole peleton to be clean/we're marketing ourselves differently from Garmin & Team HTC, which would make sense and be congruent with all the pre-launch hype & Brad's continued goes at those testing positive & that he just got his words wrong in interview situation, however, how it reads will be rolled out time after time after time if he does well in either the Giro or the Tour. Quite surprising to read the whole interview given Brad's history!SecretSqirrel wrote:iainf72 wrote:Is that's Brad's way of saying "unless you fail a test you're not doping?"
I think that is the new mantra, either that or our Brad is really mellowing with age.
What about this bit?......"We believe in what we do and stick with it 100 per cent, but we don’t go out there and accuse everyone else because they don't follow our philosophy. We do what we do and we don't care what anyone else does. We not one for walking round preaching about not taking drugs. We're not fighting to be 100 per cent clean. It's just the way we do it and the way I prefer to compete."
:shock: What have they doing to him at sky. That's one chimp that has been well and truely exorcised.0 -
It could be the PR dept telling him not to upset any more teams in the peleton since they've started to realise that they may need some favours at some point.iainf72 wrote:Is that's Brad's way of saying "unless you fail a test you're not doping?"
I'm very unclear if the interview is badly executed spin or a sea change in opinion. It really doesn't read well either way...0 -
noone told Brad's wife the new line on Vino...cath wiggins wrote:right,now you can f**g rain,just on Vino tho0
-
Timoid. wrote:micron wrote:But iain, surely what you're vilifying Vino for - carrying on as he did before - is exactly what made him so popular i.e. his do or die attacking style? Personally I'd like to have seen Kolobnev get something but then Katusha are just a bit dodgy aren't they?
For once I agree with dennis - served his time, end of. Vino is an aggressive rider - what's he supposed to do, ride meekly at the back of the peloton beating his breast chanting 'me culpa'?
What makes Katusha dodgy? Other than being Russian of course.
You watch to many James Bond re-runs
Tell you what, there's a Katusha on its way around your house whilst you mull that question over.
Some forms of stupidity are way beyond even doping.___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
Richrd2205 wrote:
I read that interview with my eyes rolling. I hope that what he means is that we're not fighting for the whole peloton to be clean/we're marketing ourselves differently from Garmin & Team HTC, which would make sense and be congruent with all the pre-launch hype & Brad's continued goes at those testing positive & that he just got his words wrong in interview situation, however, how it reads will be rolled out time after time after time if he does well in either the Giro or the Tour. Quite surprising to read the whole interview given Brad's history!SecretSqirrel wrote:iainf72 wrote:Is that's Brad's way of saying "unless you fail a test you're not doping?"
I think that is the new mantra, either that or our Brad is really mellowing with age.
What about this bit?......"We believe in what we do and stick with it 100 per cent, but we don’t go out there and accuse everyone else because they don't follow our philosophy. We do what we do and we don't care what anyone else does. We not one for walking round preaching about not taking drugs. We're not fighting to be 100 per cent clean. It's just the way we do it and the way I prefer to compete."
:shock: What have they doing to him at sky. That's one chimp that has been well and truely exorcised.
I would presume he means that they are not marketing themselves as an anti-doping team, the way Garmin Slipstream were perceived to be when they started (note that Vaughters also said a few years ago that he hoped that cycling got to the point where they - Garmin - weren't identified as being solely an anti-doping team, but just another team, which had a wacky kit, some cool equipment and tried some crazy tactics from time to time).
Anyone who questions BC's commitment to clean sport may also question why it took them so long to get into road racing...
This policy certainly didn't stop Wiggo tweeting a comedy pic about Pelizotti recently...Le Blaireau (1)0 -
Given the circumstances, what should Brad have said? He can't call for a retrospective change in the rules regarding the length of his ban, can he?0
-
Spoken like a real champion, Wiggins Wonder what Tyler Phinney has to say? 0
-
DaveyL wrote:
I would presume he means that they are not marketing themselves as an anti-doping team, the way Garmin Slipstream were perceived to be when they started (note that Vaughters also said a few years ago that he hoped that cycling got to the point where they - Garmin - weren't identified as being solely an anti-doping team, but just another team, which had a wacky kit, some cool equipment and tried some crazy tactics from time to time).
Anyone who questions BC's commitment to clean sport may also question why it took them so long to get into road racing...
This policy certainly didn't stop Wiggo tweeting a comedy pic about Pelizotti recently...
OK, that's a better thought out post than mine. & prob better argued.
Still, Wiggo might have picked words better. I have hideous visions of that quote coming up again & again if he does well in July as "proof" of something...0 -
If it is this difficult for us to interpret what Wiggins is trying to say, Vinokourov doesn't have a hope :roll:0
