Can I make one forum change suggestion.

DonDaddyD

Yes Smeg, you are right.

DonDaddyD

:roll:

Anyway. Basically all I'm saying is that since the decision was taken to seperate road riding and commuting. And given that commuting is the fastest growing area of cycling I would argue that there is plausible ground for a commuting focused campaign section to go within the commuting section.

This could include all accidents, casualties, collisions and daily mail-esque reports on cycling. Including our own, like "Reclaim the ASL" (Though I haven't created it yet).

Things like I had a near miss or I saw Pendleton on my commute could remain in this section for general discussions.

But it seemse that others disagree so I'll leave the discussion open for further debate.

spen666

DonDaddyD wrote:

:roll:

Anyway. Basically all I'm saying is that since the decision was taken to seperate road riding and commuting. And given that commuting is the fastest growing area of cycling I would argue that there is plausible ground for a commuting focused campaign section to go within the commuting section.

This could include all accidents, casualties, collisions and daily mail-esque reports on cycling. Including our own, like "Reclaim the ASL" (Though I haven't created it yet).

Things like I had a near miss or I saw Pendleton on my commute could remain in this section for general discussions.

But it seemse that others disagree so I'll leave the discussion open for further debate.

All you are doing is dividing up the road group and reducing the exposure it will get and reducing the weight of any campaign.

Don't split things for the sake of it. Campaign in the camopaign section.

you've already moved a lot of cake stop posts into commuting, why bring campaign into commuting. All you are doing is dividing things up and reducing the number of people that will see the posts and as a result harming the campaign for safer roads etc.

Division is not helpful. We need to keep everyone together, not split commuters from leuisure cyclists

pomtarr

http://www.lfgss.com have a separate sub-forum called "Rider Down" which is exactly what the OP described. Seems to work OK over there - people are generally respectful, threads have a standard name format [Date][Rider Down][Location] and it doesn't pull focus from other campaign issues. IMO there's no reason why it wouldn't work here too.

OldSkoolKona

Now DDD, you've upset Spen, you should know not to do that. Now get back in your Box and behave ;-)

Seriously though, the Commuting section has become what it is through natural progression, through the people who have come on here to post and through the people who, having used it to get some tips on taking their bike to work for the first time, have taken cycling up more seriously. Which can only be a good thing :-)

OldSkoolKona

I would add that the reason I don't post in Campaign is that it has a bit of a image problem, and it has built a perception that campaigning is something 'other people' do, usually gathering dressed in sandals and socks drinking warm beer to look over some cycle lane proposal.

This shouldn't be the case, and there is a lot of energy here in Commuting that can be used to move things and change that perception. A lot of letters have been written, complaints raised, etc etc through the conversations had here. If by doing that I've destroyed the site, then I apologise and I'll get back in my box too :oops:

davmaggs

I have to chuck in a bit of support for Spen's point. There were places on the forum for the new monikor of OT or for campaigning and they've probably withered as people post them in general commuting.

It does seem that people want 'hits' on the topics that they post so they put campaign issues or OT in high traffic parts of the site like commuting. Another tactic is to use cryptic titles in posts so that people open them only to find it isn't something of interest or a question they can help with.

And related to DDDs point about threads deteriorating; if people post campaigns or items they feel very personally in a general area, which by its nature is for debating then they should expect debate. If you only want supporting comments and don't want disagreements, then post in the approproate area where like minds can gather.

It seems there is a school of thought that if you point out a flaw, give an alternative point of view, or ask for evidence of a campaigner/passionate poster then this is somehow aggressive or heartless or perhaps worst of all you agree with the other side in whatever the campaign post is about.

deptfordmarmoset

pomtarr wrote:

http://www.lfgss.com have a separate sub-forum called "Rider Down" which is exactly what the OP described. Seems to work OK over there - people are generally respectful, threads have a standard name format [Date][Rider Down][Location] and it doesn't pull focus from other campaign issues. IMO there's no reason why it wouldn't work here too.

When I posted news of the death of Stella Chandler onto a commuting thread last December, I put it onto an already existing thread, ''What is it with women cyclists?' (http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=adrianna) because the circumstances fitted exactly into the women/HGV theme. There was absolutely zero response from this ''community.'' I was shocked enough not to add more information because there was no demonstrated interest and instead registered on lfgss to post up information where there was indeed respectful space and consideration given. I personally was very grateful that lfgss was there.

I don't know why nobody responded to the death of this woman on here. Compassion fatigue? She was retired so not technically a commuter? (Though I met her sister when the police carried out a reconstruction of the accident and she explained that she'd been up to visit one of the people in her former care.) She didn't come from the right part of London? I really have no idea. It could even be because the thread had previously degenerated into flippancy - the OP of this thread was last seen joking on that thread because someone had used a rude word.

I invite you to have a look at the thread, pages 9 and 10, and decide whether this is a fit and proper place capable of showing respect.

iain_j

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

pomtarr wrote:

http://www.lfgss.com have a separate sub-forum called "Rider Down" which is exactly what the OP described. Seems to work OK over there - people are generally respectful, threads have a standard name format [Date][Rider Down][Location] and it doesn't pull focus from other campaign issues. IMO there's no reason why it wouldn't work here too.

When I posted news of the death of Stella Chandler onto a commuting thread last December, I put it onto an already existing thread, ''What is it with women cyclists?' (http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=adrianna) because the circumstances fitted exactly into the women/HGV theme. There was absolutely zero response from this ''community.'' I was shocked enough not to add more information because there was no demonstrated interest and instead registered on lfgss to post up information where there was indeed respectful space and consideration given. I personally was very grateful that lfgss was there.

I don't know why nobody responded to the death of this woman on here. Compassion fatigue? She was retired so not technically a commuter? (Though I met her sister when the police carried out a reconstruction of the accident and she explained that she'd been up to visit one of the people in her former care.) She didn't come from the right part of London? I really have no idea. It could even be because the thread had previously degenerated into flippancy - the OP of this thread was last seen joking on that thread because someone had used a rude word.

I invite you to have a look at the thread, pages 9 and 10, and decide whether this is a fit and proper place capable of showing respect.

Maybe cos that was in a thread which had dried up some months before, and had dried up with some childish humour. Maybe because of that, not many people opened it up when it resurfaced.

I think the separate "Rider Down" section would be a good idea. Or, at the very least, just start the subject with "Rider down". That would differentiate it from the general discussion/banter threads in here.

deptfordmarmoset

Maybe, iain, but I bumped it back up to the top and....nothing.... I felt it was the appropriate thread because it fitted exactly into the profile of London's rash of women/HGV fatalities last year. Why did renewing an appropriate thread fail? I still haven't understood why.

DonDaddyD

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

Maybe, iain, but I bumped it back up to the top and....nothing.... I felt it was the appropriate thread because it fitted exactly into the profile of London's rash of women/HGV fatalities last year. Why did renewing an appropriate thread fail? I still haven't understood why.

Old friends, especially ones that degenerate are often overlooked for new ones. Also people scan read threads with lots of posts.

Trust me on this as a Man who has experience with a number of forums.

If you had started a new thread it would have got a response.

deptfordmarmoset

DonDaddyD wrote:

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

Maybe, iain, but I bumped it back up to the top and....nothing.... I felt it was the appropriate thread because it fitted exactly into the profile of London's rash of women/HGV fatalities last year. Why did renewing an appropriate thread fail? I still haven't understood why.

Old friends, especially ones that degenerate are often overlooked for new ones. Also people scan read threads with lots of posts.

Trust me on this as a Man who has experience with a number of forums.

If you had started a new thread it would have got a response.

Me, I've never used more than one thread? Or more than one forum? Do I not have experience? I do believe I'm older than you. Do threads degenerate or do people trivialise them so that a new thread becomes necessary to generate interest?

I think that if what I considered to have been an appropriate thread generated zero interest, then there really was no sincere interest. That thread, with the seriousness of the subject, the subsequent puerility, and the silence that followed tells its own story. As I said, lfgss had no difficulty treating the news about Stella with respect. Go over to their ''cyclist down'' pages and see, if you don't believe me.

BTW, thanks for not quoting me as ''deptfordsomething'' this time - that casual disrespect last time you addressed a post of mine really annoyed me.

Porgy

speaking personally - I just didn;t see the bumped threads or I would have taken an interest. It's too easy to miss stuff on a forum like this.

_Brun_

I'd vote for D^3 to be a moderator on the condition that his first action is to delete all his previous posts, and his second (and final) one is to ban himself.

DonDaddyD

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

Maybe, iain, but I bumped it back up to the top and....nothing.... I felt it was the appropriate thread because it fitted exactly into the profile of London's rash of women/HGV fatalities last year. Why did renewing an appropriate thread fail? I still haven't understood why.

Old friends, especially ones that degenerate are often overlooked for new ones. Also people scan read threads with lots of posts.

Trust me on this as a Man who has experience with a number of forums.

If you had started a new thread it would have got a response.

Me, I've never used more than one thread? Or more than one forum? Do I not have experience? I do believe I'm older than you. Do threads degenerate or do people trivialise them so that a new thread becomes necessary to generate interest?

I think that if what I considered to have been an appropriate thread generated zero interest, then there really was no sincere interest. That thread, with the seriousness of the subject, the subsequent puerility, and the silence that followed tells its own story. As I said, lfgss had no difficulty treating the news about Stella with respect. Go over to their ''cyclist down'' pages and see, if you don't believe me.

BTW, thanks for not quoting me as ''deptfordsomething'' this time - that casual disrespect last time you addressed a post of mine really annoyed me.

OK firstly I must typo myself. 'Old friends' was supposed to read 'Old threads'.

Now to begin.

I don't know how much experience you have or how many forums you've participated in. Nor do I really care. I was just sharing/explaining my experience as a means of offering an explanation as to why your post was ignored.

Fact is this, I've seen a number of rider down threads get a lot of responses on here. The thread you posted in may have degenerated or it may have grown old and lost the boards interest. Irrespective of any new posts it could be that people simply just stopped opening it. Maybe people simply didn't read your post. Or did read it but didn't feel it necessary to respond. I don't know it could be any number of reasons and/or possible combinations of reasons.

But before you dismiss that to reinforce your own personal view, again. Consider this:

When I started a thread about a collision I had seen it not only got responses from this board it generated external interest as Bikeradar was contacted by the police who wanted to get in touch with me about the THREAD I STARTED. Apparently the invstigating officer did a google search and my carefully placed THREAD title came up in google. I was able to give a further witness statement.

The power of thread starting.

Oh I'm sorry, your older than me, you must be right. I shall bury my head and quiver. :roll:

BTW, thanks for not quoting me as ''deptfordsomething'' this time - that casual disrespect last time you addressed a post of mine really annoyed me.

I'm sorry is your real name deptfordmarmoset? Really!?

Get over yourself.

It's a online user name FFS. How seriously do you need to take yourself in order to think something like refering to you as 'deptfordsomething' is 'casual disrespect'. How old are you again?

Given your attitude I think I'll be ignoring your posts from now on.

---

I'm done with this thread for a while.

Moderators, my suggestion is as follows:

Rider down section and either a commuting campaign forum or give campaigns its own section split into road, MTB and commuting campaign forums.

Porgy

DonDaddyD wrote:

OK firstly I must typo myself. 'Old friends' was supposed to read 'Old threads'.

That's not a typo - that's a Freudian slip.

tailwindhome

Maybe it was the thread title?

soy_sauce

a forum is better than a thread for this and totally agree with DDD regarding the following:

especially ones that degenerate are often overlooked for new ones. Also people scan read threads with lots of posts.

mainly because i do that all the time. :roll:

but then, do we really need a new forum/section specific for that? im not too sure. :?

spen666

DonDaddyD wrote:

...

OK firstly I must typo myself. 'Old friends' was supposed to read 'Old threads'.

Now to begin.

I don't know how much experience you have or how many forums you've participated in. Nor do I really care. I was just sharing/explaining my experience as a means of offering an explanation as to why your post was ignored.

Well why raise or comment the issue of experience if you don't care?

Fact is this, I've seen a number of rider down threads get a lot of responses on here. The thread you posted in may have degenerated or it may have grown old and lost the boards interest. Irrespective of any new posts it could be that people simply just stopped opening it. Maybe people simply didn't read your post. Or did read it but didn't feel it necessary to respond. I don't know it could be any number of reasons and/or possible combinations of reasons.

But before you dismiss that to reinforce your own personal view, again. Consider this:

When I started a thread about a collision I had seen it not only got responses from this board it generated external interest as Bikeradar was contacted by the police who wanted to get in touch with me about the THREAD I STARTED. Apparently the invstigating officer did a google search and my carefully placed THREAD title came up in google. I was able to give a further witness statement.

The power of thread starting.

Oh I'm sorry, your older than me, you must be right. I shall bury my head and quiver. :roll:

BTW, thanks for not quoting me as ''deptfordsomething'' this time - that casual disrespect last time you addressed a post of mine really annoyed me.

I'm sorry is your real name deptfordmarmoset? Really!?

Get over yourself.

It's a online user name FFS. How seriously do you need to take yourself in order to think something like refering to you as 'deptfordsomething' is 'casual disrespect'. How old are you again?

Given your attitude I think I'll be ignoring your posts from now on.

---

I'm done with this thread for a while.

Moderators, my suggestion is as follows:

Rider down section and either a commuting campaign forum or give campaigns its own section split into road, MTB and commuting campaign forums.

Why split and therefore lessen the impact of campaign.

We are all cyclists. We have more voice if we campaign as one not as little cliques.
I f you want to split campaign down, why not do it the whole hog and have a section for each colour bike, with sub groups for type of gearing, and why not tyre width as well.

Lets not keep adding boards and splitting things.

Campaign if for all cycling campaign issues.

Rider down section=- great its just going to make the casual observer think cycling is more dangerous than it is when they read lots of postsz in one place re injuries suffered.

If you are so keen to be a wuitness- then you can contact your lcal police station, report what you have seen and they will pass details onto the met police traffic unit, or contact the traffic unit yourself

DonDaddyD

You know I'm glad this place is regarded as a cake stop as with less confrontational threads some of you disgruntled lot have f'd off back in your caves.

Well why raise or comment the issue of experience if you don't care?

Turn of phrase, I was just trying to provide an explanation. Given the level of scrutiny, I won't bother next time.

Why split and therefore lessen the impact of campaign.

We are all cyclists. We have more voice if we campaign as one not as little cliques.
I f you want to split campaign down, why not do it the whole hog and have a section for each colour bike, with sub groups for type of gearing, and why not tyre width as well.

Lets not keep adding boards and splitting things.

Campaign if for all cycling campaign issues.

Rider down section=- great its just going to make the casual observer think cycling is more dangerous than it is when they read lots of postsz in one place re injuries suffered.

I think things would be easier if you just accepted that I disagree with you.

I have already accepted that you disagree with me.

If you are so keen to be a wuitness- then you can contact your lcal police station, report what you have seen and they will pass details onto the met police traffic unit, or contact the traffic unit yourself

I provided a witness statement at the scene of the incident. My example demonstrates that the thread was one more means of being contacted.

spen666

DonDaddyD wrote:

...

If you are so keen to be a wuitness- then you can contact your lcal police station, report what you have seen and they will pass details onto the met police traffic unit, or contact the traffic unit yourself

I provided a witness statement at the scene of the incident. My example demonstrates that the thread was one more means of being contacted.

As I say, if you want to be a witness, then why not contact the police- report what you have seen to the Met Police traffic unit.

By posting on here, you may well be prejudicing any evidence you can give.

DonDaddyD

spen666 wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

...

If you are so keen to be a wuitness- then you can contact your lcal police station, report what you have seen and they will pass details onto the met police traffic unit, or contact the traffic unit yourself

I provided a witness statement at the scene of the incident. My example demonstrates that the thread was one more means of being contacted.

As I say, if you want to be a witness, then why not contact the police- report what you have seen to the Met Police traffic unit.

By posting on here, you may well be prejudicing any evidence you can give.

I disagree with you. Why? Because it didn't and I was told it wouldn't.

shouldbeinbed

and breathe.


Campaign does tend to be quite commute issue specific anyway so I do think it would be duplicating/diluting by putting a commuting bit on here.

however is a link to it from the other sections beyond the technical capabilities of the site?

I don't see why it only has to have one door into it.

OldSkoolKona

shouldbeinbed wrote:

and breathe.

Most sensible thing said today on this thread :?

rjsterry

shouldbeinbed wrote:

and breathe.


Campaign does tend to be quite commute issue specific anyway so I do think it would be duplicating/diluting by putting a commuting bit on here.

however is a link to it from the other sections beyond the technical capabilities of the site?

I don't see why it only has to have one door into it.

Finally, an actual point of view! What was it I said on page 1 about degenerating arguments? DDD made a suggestion, Spen666 and a few others didn't think it was a good one, others did, some weren't sure. Endlessly re-quoting each other and pointing out typos and inaccuracies hasn't really moved us past that 50-odd posts later.

supersonic

I can add a sticky to the top of the General section straight through to the road Campaign.

Porgy

rjsterry wrote:

Finally, an actual point of view! What was it I said on page 1 about degenerating arguments? DDD made a suggestion, Spen666 and a few others didn't think it was a good one; others did; some weren't sure. Endlessly re-quoting each other and pointing out typos and inaccuracies hasn't really moved us past that 50-odd posts later.

i think you meant to use a semi colon there rather than a comma.

tailwindhome

supersonic wrote:

I can add a sticky to the top of the General section straight through to the road Campaign.

You've caused enough trouble

rjsterry

Porgy wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Finally, an actual point of view! What was it I said on page 1 about degenerating arguments? DDD made a suggestion, Spen666 and a few others didn't think it was a good one; others did; some weren't sure. Endlessly re-quoting each other and pointing out typos and inaccuracies hasn't really moved us past that 50-odd posts later.

I think you meant to use a semi colon there rather than a comma.

EDIT: BTW I think that should be a capital I.

Porgy

rjsterry wrote:

EDIT: BTW, I think that should be a capital I.

You missed a comma.