Kids - convince me they're worth it

DonDaddyD

bails87 wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Clever Pun wrote:

el_presidente wrote:

It''s not always difficult to get preggers DDD. Not wishing to boast but let's just say I hit a home run on my first at-bat...

gutted

I haven't tried to get my girlfriend pregnant so I wouldn't know how difficult or easy it is.

Want me to have a pop at it and let you know?

Swapsies?

Bassjunkieuk

jedster wrote:

From observing my friends, the nightmare years last for about 5 or 6 years

I reckon that's very pessimistic. It gets much easier after 6 months and then much easier again after 2 years. There is a point where they begin not to demand constant attention and that seems to be in the 2-3 year area. Obviously if you keep producing babies you'll be in that 2 year window a long time!

As mine are about 18-22 months apart I've been living in that "window" for the last 8 years and will probably be stretching it out to around a decade, roll on when I'm 30 :-D

DonDaddyD

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

What a perfect excuse to post this

What with DDD's constant comments about how fertile I must be for heading towards no.6!

You probably didn't masturbate as a teenager. All that backlog when you finally did it you got your girlfriend so pregnant her body now just naturally produces babies without any further aid from yourself.

verloren

Il Principe wrote:

verloren wrote:

Comparing it to something you've already had experience of, why did you get married? It's a lot cheaper to get nookie from some slapper down the pub, or from a range of 'retail outlets', and chances are it would be more obliging too. Companionship can be dealt with at the pub/footie/sunday ride. A cleaner doesn't cost much, especially when it's just you to clean up after. And you don't have to justify yourself to anybody.

So, why did you get married? Because you 'love' her? How could love compare to the ideal life I just described? It's only an emotion, after all.

I'm not married... in fact not convinced by marriage either.

Even easier then - why are you hanging around with this woman at all? Really, why bother? You're only going to interact with her as another human being, and you can do that with one of your mates with a lot less hassle.

lost_in_thought

I don't know, IP, it's tricky.

My mum heartily believes (and has drummed it into me and my brother from a young age) that once you have kids you no longer come first, they do. Until when? Until they're in their 30s, or moved out and with someone, apparently. Whichever comes sooner.

That's a big deal, it'd be a big change for me, and for you. In my opinion you need to really want them, don't do it for the sake of it, don't do it because you think you ought to, and definitely don't be pushed into it by a broody GF.

I know a good amount of people who've had the latter happen to them and in more than half those cases it's meant the end of the relationship. Oh and maintenance payments.

As far as the age thing goes, well, my mum was 32 and my dad 48 when I was born, my mum doesn't seem old, my dad, well, I don't know! So there's time. EDIT: 33 and 49 when my bro came along.

I think you'll know when you're ready, when you suddenly want to create a tiny facsimile of the two of you.

Matt.K

Interesting reading.

I've got my first due in March and can't wait for it.
I was already aware of most of the downsides, but I know it'll be worth it.
It's already so rewarding to be able to lay there on a night and see / feel the baby wriggling around inside the missus and I'm really looking forward to when it's born and I can do so much to help it and to teach it everything.

I've always known that I'd want kids, so I've never really been scared of it. It was the wife's idea to start trying but I didn't put up much resistance.

Roastie

Il Principe wrote:

Roastie wrote:

If you feel the need to procreate, you should. If you don't, you shouldn't.

Personally I like the idea of having kids at some point, but not sure if we will. Perhaps it is selfishness, maybe that I don't see the point. Or maybe that I'm just not wired that way. Sure, the instinct is there to want to sow the seed, but in my heart I don't think it is for me.

The problem is that it's not really a decision that's left to just you is it? I do suspect that some people have children simply because they 'feel' like they should, or their other half really wants them, just like I'm sure that many people marry whoever they're with when they hit their 30's, cos that's kinda what you do. All this stuff about 'the one' is a nonsense, I was with the same girl for nearly 5 years, had we met each other 5 years later I suspect we'd have ended up getting married - it seems to come down to timing.

Meh I'm feeling rather cynical today, cynical and nervous as I only have 3 more nights of bachelordom left. :shock:

It depends I guess. My missus and I are on much the same wavelength in terms of having kids, so maybe I am lucky in that I feel I do have a say in it.

I agree with you 100% that some people have kids becasue it is the done thing, or because one partner wants to, or family pressures or whatever. I have one friend who, when talking frrankly, admits that he still doesn't feel 100% happy with having a kid adn feels guilty because he still doesn't feel all that "this is teh best thing ever" that people with kids always go on about. Then again, another mate of mine started early and now has a bus-load - but he has wanted spawn since we were nippers ourselves (scary, I know.

I think that too often people do exactly what you say, going through the motions of what is expected rather than really thinking about what they want. I'm not convinced that this is neccesarily the best way.

greg66_tri_v2.0

lost_in_thought wrote:

I think you'll know when you're ready

But I reckon blokes rarely have that epiphany moment after which they feel ready. Women much more so.

Greg T

DonDaddyD wrote:

I'm 27, younger than you. I would 'seed' my girlfriend in an instant, if we had a big enough place.

That is some serious Gymnastic impregnation you are talking about here.

Do you need a run off area / warm up zone / scaffolding type affair?

I should let you know the pole vault method has been withdrawn from the approved list after that nasty shunting accident last year.

DonDaddyD

OK to put perspective on the fact that there is no right answer.

I'm older than LiT's.

My Father is younger now than LiT's father when he had her. My Dad is 47, now.

I enjoy having young parents, I got to watch them (and there siblings) grow up while I was growing up and this has given me a unique perspective (and position) within my family. It has played a part in why I'm quite care free and eternally young at heart. It is also why I'm close to the vast majority of my cousins, aunts, uncles, Grandparents etc.

However, it wasn't easy having young parents. It also meant that I grew up while they were trying to establish themselves professionally and financially. This carrying its own implications of time they were able to dedicate to me. Still I never wanted for anything (and I mean anything) but they can clearly give my brother (who is 12yrs my junior) more financially (he got a laptop this Christmas, I got half the money towards my Garmin, yes I'm nearly 30 but still its the principle).

I do think that being able to relate to your parents is important. I enjoy teasing my brother and Father about their phones. The fact that they 'get it' and aren't out of touch is important. My Dad loves regularly outdriving me in his BMW as I hopeless give chase in my Seat. We all have size 8 feet, I cannot tell you the amount of where are my shoes arguments we've had. It is annoying. But also fun.

On the subject of time, buggy's, vomit, destroying things you earn. You'll look back and laugh in time. On the arguments, if you are close to your kids, when they're older they'll tell you you were right all along and then you can say, I told you so. Well that's what my father did with me - loves to prove a point and win an argument that one... Glad I didn't inherit that.

lost_in_thought

Greg66 wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

I think you'll know when you're ready

But I reckon blokes rarely have that epiphany moment after which they feel ready. Women much more so.

Quite feasibly!

Male friends who have kids and are happy about it have all said they realised they were envisaging them and their partners with children, or that the idea of it didn't scare them, rather excited them, or made them happy.

Probably not an epiphany, more a slow realisation.

el_presidente

lost_in_thought wrote:

My mum heartily believes (and has drummed it into me and my brother from a young age) that once you have kids you no longer come first, they do. Until when? Until they're in their 30s, or moved out and with someone, apparently. Whichever comes sooner.

That's a big deal, it'd be a big change for me, and for you. In my opinion you need to really want them, don't do it for the sake of it, don't do it because you think you ought to, and definitely don't be pushed into it by a broody GF.

this is true in one way - the kids do come first. But it's not really that big a deal, it doesn't stop you being you or doing the things you want to - it may mean you need to compromise or be more patient but most things are feasible.

Underscore

No, no no! You're all missing the point. While all the points in IP's first post are very true (and, with a daughter from my first marriage and 3 sons under 4, I can attest to that), you're all missing the main up-side: You get to buy more bikes (for them, but hey...) and, instead of getting an earful, you're suddenly the caring father!

Joking aside, IP your points are all valid and I would be hard pressed to make what would seem like a compelling case for having kids... but they're great and worth the sacrifice - I just can't sum up why particularly.

And, yes, I realise that is probably not very helpful...

_

Stevo_666

Il Principe wrote:

So people, are they worth the hassle of:

Vomiting on you and your belongings, at home, in the shops, in the car, the cinema etc.
Pissing/crapping the bed/floor/car etc
Destroying your home, sticking toast in the Bluray player, putting their hands through framed photos, traipsing dirt everywhere
The massive lack of sleep
The spending entire weekends ferrying them about
The constant worry
The enormous expense
The ingratitude
The arguments
The inability to just 'pop out' without taking a buggy and enough wipes/nappies/clothes/food to survive a nuclear holocaust
The lost cycling time
The lack of nookie :shock:
The nightmare of finding/applying for/getting into decent schools
The inevitable experiments with drugs & alcohol
The fear that they will go completely off the rails/need to be supported until you die
No more sunday's spent watching footie and drinking wine
No more 'me' time basically until they've left home.

IP, I had a very similar list when I was in your position and at the time it was very hard to see the positives, even having friends at that time who had gone for it relatively early in life. Sometimes you have to imagine ahead say 20 years and think do I want to be 50 or whatever and have no kids? By which time there's often no way of putting it right. Problem is even if blokes can do their 'part' until quite late in life, in reality a lot of us are restricted in terms of the time period of our lives when we realistically can have them unless there is a big age gap between you and your other half. And who wants to play footie with your kids when your arthritis is playing up?

I tried to look ahead like that and the good points came along sure enough (all of which have already been mentioned) and while I still miss the space/freedom type aspects, it's a price worth paying.

30 is not that old and can take the point that you want to have a decent 'innings' before you settle down However, if you want your shot at the nearest thing you'll get to immortality then don't miss out on account of a question of timing. Goes without saying really, just make sure you're doing it with the right person !

fossyant

Some good advice here....

My two are 9 and 6, so coming out of the 'hard work' period and we now have a bit more time to ourselves (i.e. easier to do 'me' time in shifts).....

We rarely get offers of babysitting, so don't get out on our own much - usually 'birthdays'

The nappy bill will wipe out the Castelli kit budget though.....never mind any bling for the bike for a bit.... :shock:

PedalPedant

Perhaps a better poll would have been "Who regrets having kids?". I'd wager not many people lie on their death bed wishing they'd had fewer children.

PP

Stevo_666

fossyant wrote:

The nappy bill will wipe out the Castelli kit budget though.....never mind any bling for the bike for a bit.... :shock:

I'd argue that unless you have lots of sprogs and need a big house and/or go for private education, kids can actually save you money :shock: - I can't begin to estimate how much cash I've saved from having less long haul hols, fast cars, expensive nights out/weekends away etc. But it seems like more than what we've spent on 'junior' in the last 8 eight years...

greg66_tri_v2.0

PedalPedant wrote:

Perhaps a better poll would have been "Who regrets having kids?". I'd wager not many people lie on their death bed wishing they'd had fewer children.

PP

[bad taste]

Women who die in childbirth?

[/bad taste]

Runoutofgears

II Principe, IMO, Kids are wonderful, it’s the act of bringing them up is draining.

As a fine upstanding member of society, (I assume you are), you have a moral duty to have off spring, (at some time),which you will bring up to have the same values. Not everyone does and they probably will anyway, so we need to have some balance.

Ducks real low! :shock:

d21dga

Greg T wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

I'm 27, younger than you. I would 'seed' my girlfriend in an instant, if we had a big enough place.

That is some serious Gymnastic impregnation you are talking about here.

Do you need a run off area / warm up zone / scaffolding type affair?

I should let you know the pole vault method has been withdrawn from the approved list after that nasty shunting accident last year.

I'm getting funny looks in the office

CiB

Greg66 wrote:

PedalPedant wrote:

Perhaps a better poll would have been "Who regrets having kids?". I'd wager not many people lie on their death bed wishing they'd had fewer children.

PP

[bad taste]

Women who die in childbirth?

[/bad taste]

Ooh. Red card.

Clever Pun

CiB wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

PedalPedant wrote:

Perhaps a better poll would have been "Who regrets having kids?". I'd wager not many people lie on their death bed wishing they'd had fewer children.

PP

[bad taste]

Women who die in childbirth?

[/bad taste]

Ooh. Red card.

Actually dead people cant feel regret... it's the bloke who's left who would struggle to come to terms with it?

Sewinman

Stevo 666 wrote:

fossyant wrote:

The nappy bill will wipe out the Castelli kit budget though.....never mind any bling for the bike for a bit.... :shock:

I'd argue that unless you have lots of sprogs and need a big house and/or go for private education, kids can actually save you money :shock: - I can't begin to estimate how much cash I've saved from having less long haul hols, fast cars, expensive nights out/weekends away etc. But it seems like more than what we've spent on 'junior' in the last 8 eight years...

You could develop a band of street children/urchins who roam the streets pick pocketing and robbing - then collect their booty at the end of each day like a modern day Fagin. Could be quite fruitful.

There is one massive advantage of having kids that I would love - moulding them in my image, but adding ruthlessness, megalomania and a tyrannical streak. Then sitting back and enjoying my time as the father of an all powerful world leader.

lost_in_thought

el_presidente wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

My mum heartily believes (and has drummed it into me and my brother from a young age) that once you have kids you no longer come first, they do. Until when? Until they're in their 30s, or moved out and with someone, apparently. Whichever comes sooner.

That's a big deal, it'd be a big change for me, and for you. In my opinion you need to really want them, don't do it for the sake of it, don't do it because you think you ought to, and definitely don't be pushed into it by a broody GF.

this is true in one way - the kids do come first. But it's not really that big a deal, it doesn't stop you being you or doing the things you want to - it may mean you need to compromise or be more patient but most things are feasible.

I agree, you can do most things with kids and a bit of work, it certainly didn't stop my parents. It's more a change of mentality - for me, I've been my main priority for the past 27 years, and I'm not prepared to change that just yet.

My sister, as an example, sees her kids as a burden, resents them and says as much. My mum doesn't think she ever stopped putting herself first, and I'm inclined to agree.

lost_in_thought

Sewinman wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

fossyant wrote:

The nappy bill will wipe out the Castelli kit budget though.....never mind any bling for the bike for a bit.... :shock:

I'd argue that unless you have lots of sprogs and need a big house and/or go for private education, kids can actually save you money :shock: - I can't begin to estimate how much cash I've saved from having less long haul hols, fast cars, expensive nights out/weekends away etc. But it seems like more than what we've spent on 'junior' in the last 8 eight years...

You could develop a band of street children/urchins who roam the streets pick pocketing and robbing - then collect their booty at the end of each day like a modern day Fagin. Could be quite fruitful.

There is one massive advantage of having kids that I would love - moulding them in my image, but adding ruthlessness, megalomania and a tyrannical streak. Then sitting back and enjoying my time as the father of an all powerful world leader.

Another fun game is borrowing other people's and teaching them the wrong words for things. Hilarity ensues.

amnezia

First thing my kids will learn is how to clean and maintain a bike. if you can't afford a support team you can always breed one.

el_presidente

lost_in_thought wrote:

el_presidente wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

My mum heartily believes (and has drummed it into me and my brother from a young age) that once you have kids you no longer come first, they do. Until when? Until they're in their 30s, or moved out and with someone, apparently. Whichever comes sooner.

That's a big deal, it'd be a big change for me, and for you. In my opinion you need to really want them, don't do it for the sake of it, don't do it because you think you ought to, and definitely don't be pushed into it by a broody GF.

this is true in one way - the kids do come first. But it's not really that big a deal, it doesn't stop you being you or doing the things you want to - it may mean you need to compromise or be more patient but most things are feasible.

I agree, you can do most things with kids and a bit of work, it certainly didn't stop my parents. It's more a change of mentality - for me, I've been my main priority for the past 27 years, and I'm not prepared to change that just yet.

My sister, as an example, sees her kids as a burden, resents them and says as much. My mum doesn't think she ever stopped putting herself first, and I'm inclined to agree.

crikey, poor kids. Having to put someone else first for a change is no bad thing at all imho (although I don't think I would have fancied it at 27)

Bassjunkieuk

amnezia wrote:

First thing my kids will learn is how to clean and maintain a bike. if you can't afford a support team you can always breed one.

Damn, I've been rumbled!

woodford2barbican

Entirely personal decision so my advice actually means nothing. I suspect that you really know what you want regarding something so fundamental.

But for me it is a privilege. Not much better than 2 toddlers to keep your life interesting and amusing.

DonDaddyD

There is also a part of me that doesn't understand the issue.

In this day and age, there is enough technology to temporarily or permanently prevent people from having a baby

Raising a child can't be that hard. If you are a decent person, unselfish, good moral compass, well balanced, does not perceive yourself as infallable, respect yourself and has the ability to admit mistake learn and grown. Then all you need to do is install your values over the course of more than a decade into a person who is willing to learn from you. What could be so hard. It took my parents about 5mins to programme me.

I was a difficult child, things worked out alright for me. I managed to learn values from varying classes, societies and cultures and I'm smart enough and well grounded to know that none of those are more valid than each other. I learned to accept people for their difference and to learn what those difference are. All this I learned from experience and from my parents.

If you want kids have them, changing your life for them shouldn't be a sacrifice.