Let it go Lance

micron

Well what do you expect BS? Roll (and Parkin) write for Versus, formerly known as OLN aka the Only Lance Network.

Armstrong's attempts to rewrite history (and have it rewritten for him) would be worthy of Goebbels - but I'm reminded of the old truism that history is written by the winners, and that is something Armstrong has ceased to be.

Gazzetta67

Well just to ignite the Lance v Contador My Dads Bigger than Your Dad Debate.

About halfway through this Documentary you will See the REAL lance and if anyone gets in his way he spits the Dummy out. check the Link - Dutch but English Interview

http://nos.nl/video/126911-studio-sport ... trong.html

moray_gub

micron wrote:

Well what do you expect BS? Roll (and Parkin) write for Versus, formerly known as OLN aka the Only Lance Network.

Armstrong's attempts to rewrite history (and have it rewritten for him) would be worthy of Goebbels - but I'm reminded of the old truism that history is written by the winners, and that is something Armstrong has ceased to be.

Your hatred of Lance has reached ridiculous levels when you are comparing his verbals to that of Goebbels. As Dennis siad some of the anti Lance bunch are becoming really anal this is proof of that.

moray_gub

andyp wrote:

Bob Roll is MG and I claim my five pounds.

Bob Roll wrote:

The division within Team Astana never became apparent during the Tour and Contador was supported by the strongest team in the Tour. It was not until after the Tour de France that the simmerring animosity that Contador felt for his teammates came to light. It was no surprise there after that Alberto Contador was not included in the RadioShack roster.

"It was not until after the Tour de France that the simmerring animosity that Contador felt for his teammates came to light"

well he got that bit right.

Monty Dog

The Bob Roll article so much of the 'head up the ar$e journalistic school of sycophancy' Phil Ligget is clearly in for some competition. As for the comments about Bruyneel being the best manager, he means Lance's glove puppet combined with the Saiz school of preparation.

micron

Ah MG, I thought you'd show predictable outrage of the 'how dare you compare St Lance to a Nazi' variety OK, I admit, the choice of Goebbels was deliberately meant to get your goat but the point remains - both he and Armstrong are arch propagandists (I could just as well have compared him to Micheal Moore as an example of someone who spins the facts to suit themselves) and a core element of the Second Coming has been the desire to rewrite the past - I believe one of the reasons given was that he didn't want his kids thinking their dad was a doper. Seems he has some more than willing helpers - and that's without mentioning the Lance Licker Twins Liggett & Sherwenn.

Thing is MG, t's not so much disliking Armstrong so much as enjoying getting you going - but you really should read a post in its entirety before jumping to conclusions you know

Gazzetta67

http://nos.nl/video/126911-studio-sport ... trong.html

Moray watch this documentary - Armstrong shows his TRUE how dare you Contador attitude.....He comes across as quite petty and childish does Armstrong.

He states that Contador seen him as a threat and did not go out his way to talk to him ??
come on who is the best here at munipulating the situation.Armstrong is very clever in "Twisting" a story....like i said before can you imagine some upstart coming in to the US Postal team and upsetting the apple cart. Then armstrong saying that he was here to win the Tour De France also.....Contador even asked bruyneel for Assurances that he would be sole team leader ??? Armstrong playing it clever - Johan has a decision to make That would have never have happened 5 years ago if Contador pushed the break along like he did in stage 4 this year. - But this only proves how Armstrong uses the media to get his Petty,Arrogant,Childish, Am not playing unless i WIN attitude accross.

moray_gub

Gazzetta67 wrote:

http://nos.nl/video/126911-studio-sport-document-lance-armstrong.html

Moray watch this documentary - Armstrong shows his TRUE how dare you Contador attitude.....He comes across as quite petty and childish does Armstrong.

He states that Contador seen him as a threat and did not go out his way to talk to him ??
come on who is the best here at munipulating the situation.Armstrong is very clever in "Twisting" a story....like i said before can you imagine some upstart coming in to the US Postal team and upsetting the apple cart. Then armstrong saying that he was here to win the Tour De France also.....Contador even asked bruyneel for Assurances that he would be sole team leader ??? Armstrong playing it clever - Johan has a decision to make That would have never have happened 5 years ago if Contador pushed the break along like he did in stage 4 this year. - But this only proves how Armstrong uses the media to get his Petty,Arrogant,Childish, Am not playing unless i WIN attitude accross.

As someone else pointed out earlier it doesnt matter what Lance says the ALB spin it to suit themselves anyway . There are two sides to every story but the ALB just see only one side and all Lances comments are taken to mean what the ALB want them to mean .So he is winner with attitude big deal history is littered with winners with attitude Hinault for one so accept it and move on.

moray_gub

micron wrote:

Ah MG, I thought you'd show predictable outrage of the 'how dare you compare St Lance to a Nazi' variety OK, I admit, the choice of Goebbels was deliberately meant to get your goat but the point remains - both he and Armstrong are arch propagandists (I could just as well have compared him to Micheal Moore as an example of someone who spins the facts to suit themselves) and a core element of the Second Coming has been the desire to rewrite the past - I believe one of the reasons given was that he didn't want his kids thinking their dad was a doper. Seems he has some more than willing helpers - and that's without mentioning the Lance Licker Twins Liggett & Sherwenn.

Thing is MG, t's not so much disliking Armstrong so much as enjoying getting you going - but you really should read a post in its entirety before jumping to conclusions you know

Im intrigued as to how he is rewriting history, the fact remains he won 7 Tours after a comeback from cancer end of. Nothing changes that all the spin and unfounded accusation the ALB can come up with cant change that fact. Deal with it and move on............

moray_gub

Gazzetta67 wrote:

Johan has a decision to make That would have never have happened 5 years ago if Contador pushed the break along like he did in stage 4 this year. - But this s.

If you are refering to Stage 3 other riders blamed the King of Spain who let the gap go becuase he couldnt or didnt want to hold the wheel in front.

iainf72

Moray Gub wrote:

[quo

If you are refering to Stage 3 other riders blamed the King of Spain who let the gap go becuase he couldnt or didnt want to hold the wheel in front.

You mean when Paulinho let the gap open, accoring to Rojas?

moray_gub

iainf72 wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

[quo

If you are refering to Stage 3 other riders blamed the King of Spain who let the gap go becuase he couldnt or didnt want to hold the wheel in front.

You mean when Paulinho let the gap open, accoring to Rojas?

Apparently Contador was in front of Paulinho when the break happened couldnt close and neither could Paulihno .


Of course Bertie says it wasnt him but then he would wouldnt he.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... -tour.html

blazing_saddles

Sort of like when Lance couldn't close on Arcalis, then?

conceptual_primate

Moray Gub wrote:

micron wrote:

Ah MG, I thought you'd show predictable outrage of the 'how dare you compare St Lance to a Nazi' variety OK, I admit, the choice of Goebbels was deliberately meant to get your goat but the point remains - both he and Armstrong are arch propagandists (I could just as well have compared him to Micheal Moore as an example of someone who spins the facts to suit themselves) and a core element of the Second Coming has been the desire to rewrite the past - I believe one of the reasons given was that he didn't want his kids thinking their dad was a doper. Seems he has some more than willing helpers - and that's without mentioning the Lance Licker Twins Liggett & Sherwenn.

Thing is MG, t's not so much disliking Armstrong so much as enjoying getting you going - but you really should read a post in its entirety before jumping to conclusions you know

Im intrigued as to how he is rewriting history, the fact remains he won 7 Tours after a comeback from cancer end of. Nothing changes that all the spin and unfounded accusation the ALB can come up with cant change that fact. Deal with it and move on............

As I read it, I'm not sure that's really the point micron was getting at. Is the debate is more about Armstrong & Contador's conduct/performances in the press, rather than what Armstrong/Contador have achieved verbatim; rewriting history is more about changing the circumstances and perceptions surrounding events rather than the outcome of the events itself.

You mention the ALB, but i think there is equally a PLB on this forum (as you'd expect) and then the rest fall in between. In my time reading these forums (admittedly only the last 4 months or so) it seems to me anyone who makes any point (rational or otherwise) that portrays LA in a bad light are immediately branded part of the ALB.

In this case, whislt myself being neither overtly pro- or anti- LA it is hard to agrue that the level of sniping hasn't been largely (without being exclusively) one-sided.

blazing_saddles

Welcome to the ALB.

iainf72

Moray Gub wrote:

Apparently Contador was in front of Paulinho when the break happened couldnt close and neither could Paulihno .

Rojas said Paulihino was in front of Contador and behind Zubeldia. He let the gap open and Contador tried to close it.

But it's all he said / she said. I didn't observe it so I can't be sure.

gabriel959

iainf72 wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

Apparently Contador was in front of Paulinho when the break happened couldnt close and neither could Paulihno .

Rojas said Paulihino was in front of Contador and behind Zubeldia. He let the gap open and Contador tried to close it.

But it's all he said / she said. I didn't observe it so I can't be sure.

Rojas surely a "he" if you are referring to Caisse's cyclist.

moray_gub

conceptual_primate wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

micron wrote:

Ah MG, I thought you'd show predictable outrage of the 'how dare you compare St Lance to a Nazi' variety OK, I admit, the choice of Goebbels was deliberately meant to get your goat but the point remains - both he and Armstrong are arch propagandists (I could just as well have compared him to Micheal Moore as an example of someone who spins the facts to suit themselves) and a core element of the Second Coming has been the desire to rewrite the past - I believe one of the reasons given was that he didn't want his kids thinking their dad was a doper. Seems he has some more than willing helpers - and that's without mentioning the Lance Licker Twins Liggett & Sherwenn.

Thing is MG, t's not so much disliking Armstrong so much as enjoying getting you going - but you really should read a post in its entirety before jumping to conclusions you know

Im intrigued as to how he is rewriting history, the fact remains he won 7 Tours after a comeback from cancer end of. Nothing changes that all the spin and unfounded accusation the ALB can come up with cant change that fact. Deal with it and move on............

As I read it, I'm not sure that's really the point micron was getting at. Is the debate is more about Armstrong & Contador's conduct/performances in the press, rather than what Armstrong/Contador have achieved verbatim; rewriting history is more about changing the circumstances and perceptions surrounding events rather than the outcome of the events itself.

You mention the ALB, but i think there is equally a PLB on this forum (as you'd expect) and then the rest fall in between. In my time reading these forums (admittedly only the last 4 months or so) it seems to me anyone who makes any point (rational or otherwise) that portrays LA in a bad light are immediately branded part of the ALB.

In this case, whislt myself being neither overtly pro- or anti- LA it is hard to agrue that the level of sniping hasn't been largely (without being exclusively) one-sided.

Actually i disagree it tends to be the PLB who see both sides its the ALB who are often narrow minded when it comes to Lance and twist his every uttering/action into a negativity even if they are anything but, witness the reaction to his going for a cycle in Glasgow recently. My point all along here is that both of these gentleman have sniped at each other but the ALB only see LA as being the perpetrator in all of this The debate started off about each others conduct in the press but like most debates it has moved on to other issues and the rewriting of history is another ludicrous accusation. Everybody spins things they want to you do it i do it the girl next door does it but when Lance does he becomes some sort of hate figure responsible for all of pro cyclings problems.

moray_gub

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Sort of like when Lance couldn't close on Arcalis, then?

Arcalis ,Verbier,Colombiere ..................whats your point caller ?

dougzz

@Moray Gub
Do you have a life outside monitoring this thread?

Doug Proudly ALB

moray_gub

dougzz wrote:

@Moray Gub
Do you have a life outside monitoring this thread?

Doug Proudly ALB

what else is there to do in jail

ultimobici

LA has on several occasions attempted to amend the accounts of certain incidents.

The most blatent being his revision of the Simeoni break incident.

At the time he was happy to state his reasons for his actions that day -

Today the Domina Vacanze team rider's attempts to get into the six-man breakaway were kept immediately in check, as though Armstrong was intent on trailing him wherever he went even though Simeoni is not a threat in the general classification.

And the message from Armstrong seemed clear: 'Me and the peloton don't like what you've said about Ferrari, and we won't let you forget it'.

Race leaders rarely need to chase down such attacks, and although stranger things have happened in cycling it still shed Armstrong in a curious light.

Simeoni, for one, wasn't happy: ''Armstrong today showed everyone the kind of champion he is,'' said the Italian, who has never implicated Armstrong in any evidence he has given about Ferrari.

''If he was truly a big champion, he wouldn't have to preoccupy himself with modest riders like me.''

When questioned, Armstrong later insisted: ''I was protecting the interests of the peloton. The other riders were very thankful,'' he said before hinting at his real motives.

''All he (Simeoni) wants to do is destroy cycling, destroy the sport that pays him.

''I can't say how many riders said thank you very much.

''They understand that it is their job, and they don't want somebody from within destroy it,'' added Armstrong, who took his petulance a stage further by poking fun at the journalist from L'Equipe newspaper who had interviewed Simeoni two weeks ago.

Fastforward to 2009 and it's a different story -

However when it comes to the events of the 18th stage of the 2004 Tour de France, Armstrong said that the Italian’s version of what took place is simply not true.

“First off, I did not chase Simeoni down,” Armstrong said. “I was simply following his wheel. That is the truth of the matter. I never bridged across to Simeoni. He was in front of me, people were attacking, he accelerated, and I stayed on the wheel. We have footage of the race that will back that up. There was never more than bike length between us. There was no gap closed. There’s a big difference between following wheels and closing a gap.”

Armstrong said he’d naturally expected the peloton to follow, and was surprised to see that the pair had opened a gap when they reached the day’s breakaway a few kilometers later.

“I was completely shocked when I turned around and there was no one on my wheel,” Armstrong said. “I was fully expecting to see the rest of the group, because I was in the [yellow] jersey. But Simeoni pulled for two minutes, and I followed his wheel. That’s racing. He really was a minor story that day. I knew T-Mobile would have to work, and that was good for us, to make your biggest adversaries work to chase down a break. It was two minutes at the biggest gap, and that meant they would have to work hard to chase us down.”

And what about the infamous images of Armstrong flashing Simeoni the international “zip the lips” gesture? Armstrong said that had nothing to do with Simeoni’s comments about Armstrong’s relationship with Ferrari, and everything to do with the Italian rider’s loud protests in the breakaway group.

“People will say that was all about the omerta, the code of silence,” Armstrong said. “That’s nonsense. It’s because Simeoni was yelling at everybody, about everything. We joined the breakaway, and everyone was working except him. He was sitting on. I was working with guys in the group. He would not pull, but he was yelling about everything.”

As for Simeoni’s claims that once he and Armstrong returned to the peloton his colleagues berated him with insults, telling him he had “dirtied the name of the peloton and spoiled the plate that I had eaten from all of my life,” Armstrong said simply, “That wasn’t my intention. I was racing my bike. I can’t apologize for racing my bike.”

Sounds like rewriting history to me.

moray_gub

ultimobici wrote:

Labout everything.”

As for Simeoni’s claims that once he and Armstrong returned to the peloton his colleagues berated him with insults, telling him he had “dirtied the name of the peloton and spoiled the plate that I had eaten from all of my life,” Armstrong said simply, “That wasn’t my intention. I was racing my bike. I can’t apologize for racing my bike.”

Sounds like rewriting history to me.[/quote]

Lance and Simeoni were away in break ...........fact .......cant be rewritten
The reason for this break are open to intepretation as this is not really a historical fact and as such its one mans interpretation of it irrespective of whether he is feeding you a line regarding it.

sampras38

RichN95 wrote:

maltiv wrote:

That Contador kid really think's he is something, ey? Keeping his old friends from childhood, staying with his girlfriend who he's been dating since he was 15 and so on. What a jackass!

I'd say anyone who stays with the same girl from the age of 15 is a complete jackass.

He looks about 15 so they probably suit each other quite well...;-)

ultimobici

Moray Gub wrote:

Lance and Simeoni were away in break ...........fact .......cant be rewritten
The reason for this break are open to intepretation as this is not really a historical fact and as such its one mans interpretation of it irrespective of whether he is feeding you a line regarding it.

He portrayed his actions and their motivations one way in 2004 and an entirely different way in 2009. Either he was lying in 2004 or he was trying to change his tune in 2009.

Gazzetta67

At the end of the day Big Tex is still a power crazy egocentric my way or nobody`s way person. anybody who lowers themselves to call a grand champion a Wan**r i am referring to him calling Bernard Hinault that. and as for me being bothered about what Moraygobshyte says - i think it`s him who`s bothered by what other people say about Armstrong - are you his brown tongue slave, I find this quite amusing of your undying love for a guy who would prob not Pi*s on you if you were on fire !!!

moray_gub

ultimobici wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

Lance and Simeoni were away in break ...........fact .......cant be rewritten
The reason for this break are open to intepretation as this is not really a historical fact and as such its one mans interpretation of it irrespective of whether he is feeding you a line regarding it.

He portrayed his actions and their motivations one way in 2004 and an entirely different way in 2009. Either he was lying in 2004 or he was trying to change his tune in 2009.

The only historical fact here is he was away in break with Simeoni and others in 2004 giving a different interpretation of why is not really rewriting history. Maybe he is reacting to Simeonis recent statements who really cares to be honest we all know whey he chased him down we dont need him to tell us. I mean look at bertie 13 days after saying he would love to have LA in his team he then intimates he may have to leave..................there is no one among us who doesnt spin things the way they want to ....................even you.

moray_gub

Gazzetta67 wrote:

At the end of the day Big Tex is still a power crazy egocentric my way or nobody`s way person. anybody who lowers themselves to call a grand champion a Wan**r i am referring to him calling Bernard Hinault that. and as for me being bothered about what Moraygobshyte says - !!!

What makes Hinault being above being called a wanker or Lance or Bertie or anyone for that matter ? does winning bike races make you some sort of moral super being that is above normal human frailties ? oh and btw if you ask few riders who rode against BH they would probably call him that as well, he was respected but not too popular.

Gazzetta67 wrote:

and as for me being bothered about what Moraygobshyte says - !!!

Yea sure thats why you continue to post and insult ............coz youre not bothered

blazing_saddles

Moray Gub wrote:

Actually i disagree it tends to be the PLB who see both sides its the ALB who are often narrow minded when it comes to Lance.

Especially when the other side involves a French press and conspiracy theories.

Gazzetta67

I continue to post cos it`s a FREE country + it wynds you up and you bite back - You are biting back arnt you ????