Let it go Lance

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Comments

  • jimmythecuckoo
    jimmythecuckoo Posts: 4,718
    Having been off the forum a while it is refreshing to see this is the only Lance thread on the first page :)
    http://fendrieneu.home.blog
    My blog and pod...
    Beers of Belgium Cycling Club UK
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    PBo wrote:
    Paul, I know you are right, but I must get my rebuttal in first. Then I'll step away from the debate.
    Moray Gub wrote:
    PBo wrote:
    Now, it is "laughable in the extreme" that you of all people should post this.

    However, you do make me cross - not for having "the audacity to think differently", but for the double standard you demonstrate with your bullying tone to those you disagree with, and your refusal sometimes to acknowledge clear evidence against you. (I pulled you up in the R2R DVD thread like this. Your response? To call me "fannybaws" and then disappear from the thread despite some people still challenging you to actually consider the evidence).

    It was clear that you had finally admitted to yourself you'd lost this debate the moment you instigated the "but I liked bertie first" defence.....

    Now, do us all a favour, put down your spade and stop digging - you do know that you'll never tunnel all the way to Australia in time to watch Lance in the TDU don't you? :)

    Ok lets take this nice and slow for you as there is a fair amount of inaccuracies going on here I called you fannybaws after you called me a c ock
    now, - this difference is subtle - I said that blindly denying clear evidence made you look like a c0ck. back then i didn't think you were one.

    however, i waded in because i think you are a bully. here are some of your condascending/arrogant quotes to others before i posted. to me, taking this attitude to your fellow posters is abuse too.

    "Ok lets take this slowly two points to note here "
    "can you be a sport and point him out for me ..........theres a good lad "
    "..simple economics..............target market............its not rocket science .........cash...........cash....cash........."
    "good to see you dont let anti american feelings and lets be frank an irrational dislike cloud your judgement."

    doesn't look to me like you are a man who likes others holding different opinions.
    nor does it look like internet debate means the square root of feck all - if it did, then I think you'd have bailed on this thread a while ago, instead of replying to some of the barbs thrown at you. I'm not saying you SHOULD walk away, just that if it means so little, then why bother.....?

    and i posted about 6 times in that thread after not exactly consistent with dissapearing but hey whats a wee lie here and there eh !
    actually, you are right on this one - i just had your final quote - along the lines of "I refer you to my previous post" in the back of my mind.
    oh, wait do you see what i did there - i admitted i was wrong and changed my opinion based on the evidence.
    Now if a poster makes you cross then maybe you need to let it go a little
    but i quite enjoy the debate/banter on internet forums. i don't like bullying - it spoils it, so why should i let it go unchallenged?
    if its doing that to you and as for you pulling anybody up now you are taking the p iss . As for liking Bertie first the point needs to be made that many adoring him know didnt have time for him him before, i dont include you in that as this time last year he could have been Bertie Bassett for all you knew about him. Anyway I disagree with you on certain things it happens its no big deal but it seems it something you cant handle very well without resorting to personal abuse along with your wee lap dog Gazza, you will notice i only indulge in this as a retort to the likes of you like i did in the Roubaix thread. Its turning into a habit with you ...........you get into a debate dont like the way it goes and bang out comes the personal abuse scattergun. Fine if thas your thing but dont try to portay others as doing it to you when generally its you who initiates it all.

    still sounding a bit angry there for mr no big deal/square root of feck all.
    to be factually accurate, i gave you personal abuse in my first posts, not after the debate went some way i didn't like. In fact, in both debates, you've been pretty much fighting a solo losing battle.

    right, walking away now.



    Right lets see if i have got this one right it goes like this............you say i look like a c ock but you dont really mean it as an insult its just a general observation yea good get out clause that one. I will need to remember that if i give someone abuse and put it down to a general observation it doesnt count as abuse. As for my comments being construead as bullying well thats nonsensical indeed it may be indicative of the world we live in today where non positive comments are looked upon as being bullying. I am sure if you asked the posters those comments were directed at they woudlny say it was bullying, difference of opinion sure sarcastic sure but bullying come off it get real ffs. As for it being an internet debate yes thats all it is and means feck all other than a way of spending some time there is no need to for you to give it any more importance thatn that.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    At last! Definite proof that Contador started it all. Moray is vindicated.
    No hidden agendas, here. Sheep, prepare to vomit.
    http://www.versus.com/nw/article/view/8 ... parkin.tpl
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    At last! Definite proof that Contador started it all. Moray is vindicated.
    No hidden agendas, here. Sheep, prepare to vomit.
    http://www.versus.com/nw/article/view/8 ... parkin.tpl

    "Perhaps Alberto should pay attention to something that I, and undoubtedly Johan Bruyneel also, heard as a young bike racing hopeful in Belgium.

    “Shut your mouth. Open your eyes and pay attention."

    Is dog in a hat full of this sort of sh1t?
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • le_patron
    le_patron Posts: 494
    I only read it the once I admit, but I genuinely don't understand that article, and I enjoyed Dog in a Hat. Armstrong is very clever ? I think we know that. Contador is no Einstein, think we know that too. What's all that 'bodies' stuff ??

    It also ignores the impact that accompanied LA joining Astana in the first place as a non-paid rider, splitting team loyalties and creating divisions that LA would never have stood for as designated leader in the USP/Disco days.
  • lucybears
    lucybears Posts: 366
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    At last! Definite proof that Contador started it all. Moray is vindicated.
    No hidden agendas, here. Sheep, prepare to vomit.
    http://www.versus.com/nw/article/view/8 ... parkin.tpl

    er...Definite proof that Contador started it ?

    where ?

    and if the man can't even get the number of Contadors grand tour victories right, what else might he be wrong about?
    interview.cyclingfever.com
  • ultimobici
    ultimobici Posts: 44
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    At last! Definite proof that Contador started it all. Moray is vindicated.
    No hidden agendas, here. Sheep, prepare to vomit.
    http://www.versus.com/nw/article/view/8 ... parkin.tpl
    Sorry, you lost me there. Joe Parkin's opinion piece is proof that Contador started it?

    On that basis, Paul Kimmage should be vindicated too then.
  • thomasmc
    thomasmc Posts: 814
    lucybears wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    At last! Definite proof that Contador started it all. Moray is vindicated.
    No hidden agendas, here. Sheep, prepare to vomit.
    http://www.versus.com/nw/article/view/8 ... parkin.tpl

    er...Definite proof that Contador started it ?

    where ?

    and if the man can't even get the number of Contadors grand tour victories right, what else might he be wrong about?

    I have a feeling Blaze may be a bit tongue in cheek with this link (at least I hope he is)
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    lucybears wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    At last! Definite proof that Contador started it all. Moray is vindicated.
    No hidden agendas, here. Sheep, prepare to vomit.
    http://www.versus.com/nw/article/view/8 ... parkin.tpl

    er...Definite proof that Contador started it ?

    where ?

    and if the man can't even get the number of Contadors grand tour victories right, what else might he be wrong about?

    Contatdor did start it two days after the TDF finished but here Blaze is being toungue in cheek there but it seems to have went right over your head .
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    At last! Definite proof that Contador started it all. Moray is vindicated.
    No hidden agendas, here. Sheep, prepare to vomit.
    http://www.versus.com/nw/article/view/8 ... parkin.tpl

    BTW i cant think why i would ever need to be vindicated.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    At last! Definite proof that Contador started it all. Moray is vindicated.
    No hidden agendas, here. Sheep, prepare to vomit.
    http://www.versus.com/nw/article/view/8 ... parkin.tpl

    Despite his 5 grand tour victories, Contador has weaknesses in his armor that leave many of the great champions who preceded him absolutely dumbfounded. Alberto Contador possesses such phenomenal physical abilities when it comes to making a bicycle go fast that, when compared to most of his competition, make him seem like an Indy Car racing against a bunch of worn out minivans.

    Is it me, or does that paragraph make absolutely no sense?
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Moray Gub wrote:
    lucybears wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    At last! Definite proof that Contador started it all. Moray is vindicated.
    No hidden agendas, here. Sheep, prepare to vomit.
    http://www.versus.com/nw/article/view/8 ... parkin.tpl

    er...Definite proof that Contador started it ?

    where ?

    and if the man can't even get the number of Contadors grand tour victories right, what else might he be wrong about?

    Contatdor did start it two days after the TDF finished but here Blaze is being toungue in cheek there but it seems to have went right over your head .

    Got any links to back that up?

    Still waiting for you to give me an example of when I made unfounded doping allegations against riders, too.
  • lucybears
    lucybears Posts: 366
    Moray Gub wrote:
    Contatdor did start it two days after the TDF finished but here Blaze is being toungue in cheek there but it seems to have went right over your head
    Moray Gub wrote:
    Becuase i follow cycling all year round not just when tthe Tour comes around so i am perefctly capable of remembering what he said and when he said it,

    A classic example of "perefctly capable of remembering,"
    Contatdor did start it two days after the TDF

    So, if Contador started it, the TDF must have taken place before Armstrongs comments such as, "Contador has a lot to learn" were made back in March.
    interview.cyclingfever.com
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    Sorry Lucy. Yes, the others know me well enough and are a right.
    Tongue tucked well and truly into the cheek, lit match in hand.

    What I thought interesting is what we have, in terms of the sum of AC's sniping, is this:

    "Well, my relationship with Lance is zero. My relationship with him is zero. I think that independently of what his character is, he is still a great champion. He has won seven Tours and played a big part in this one, too. But it's different to speak at a personal level. I have never really admired him that much, or will ever, but of course as a cyclist, he is a great champion."

    Now, all I can read into that is, like many here, he doesn't like Lance's character, but rates him highly, as a cyclist.

    Parkin neither seems to rate Contador's character, or champion's quality, simply referring to him as an athlete.

    Did not said Mr Parkin attack Paul Kimmage in his book?

    As Lucy says, 2 days after the Tour, not March, or at the dinner table, during the race itself.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • lucybears
    lucybears Posts: 366
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Sorry Lucy. Yes, the others know me well enough and are a right.
    Tongue tucked well and truly into the cheek, lit match in hand..

    :wink: needed a bit more bait to catch the fish....
    interview.cyclingfever.com
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    afx237vi wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    lucybears wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    At last! Definite proof that Contador started it all. Moray is vindicated.
    No hidden agendas, here. Sheep, prepare to vomit.
    http://www.versus.com/nw/article/view/8 ... parkin.tpl

    er...Definite proof that Contador started it ?

    where ?

    and if the man can't even get the number of Contadors grand tour victories right, what else might he be wrong about?

    Contatdor did start it two days after the TDF finished but here Blaze is being toungue in cheek there but it seems to have went right over your head .

    Got any links to back that up?

    Still waiting for you to give me an example of when I made unfounded doping allegations against riders, too.

    You dont remebr Bertie shooting off two days after the Toutrwhen he made his personal comments about Lance. On the other issue Your post about Sean Yates was removed due to the unfounded allegations contained within it. The site mods were not best pleased with you iirc
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    lucybears wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    Contatdor did start it two days after the TDF finished but here Blaze is being toungue in cheek there but it seems to have went right over your head
    Moray Gub wrote:
    Becuase i follow cycling all year round not just when tthe Tour comes around so i am perefctly capable of remembering what he said and when he said it,

    A classic example of "perefctly capable of remembering,"
    Contatdor did start it two days after the TDF

    So, if Contador started it, the TDF must have taken place before Armstrongs comments such as, "Contador has a lot to learn" were made back in March.

    But saying he had a lot to learn was not a snipe more like a pertinent observation at the time and he lost a prestigious stage race as a result. It works both ways you see after all posters in here are saying Bertie personal comments after the Tour were not sniping...........yea yea i know ridiculous but still you know what they are like in here.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Moray Gub wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    Contatdor did start it two days after the TDF finished but here Blaze is being toungue in cheek there but it seems to have went right over your head .

    Got any links to back that up?

    Still waiting for you to give me an example of when I made unfounded doping allegations against riders, too.

    You dont remebr Bertie shooting off two days after the Toutrwhen he made his personal comments about Lance. On the other issue Your post about Sean Yates was removed due to the unfounded allegations contained within it. The site mods were not best pleased with you iirc

    1. That's it? Contador saying he thinks Lance is a great champion, but doesn't like him as a person. One comment all year.

    2. That had nothing to do with doping, despite what you may believe.
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Sorry Lucy. Yes, the others know me well enough and are a right.
    Tongue tucked well and truly into the cheek, lit match in hand.

    What I thought interesting is what we have, in terms of the sum of AC's sniping, is this:

    "Well, my relationship with Lance is zero. My relationship with him is zero. I think that independently of what his character is, he is still a great champion. He has won seven Tours and played a big part in this one, too. But it's different to speak at a personal level. I have never really admired him that much, or will ever, but of course as a cyclist, he is a great champion."

    Now, all I can read into that is, like many here, he doesn't like Lance's character, but rates him highly, as a cyclist.

    Parkin neither seems to rate Contador's character, or champion's quality, simply referring to him as an athlete.

    Did not said Mr Parkin attack Paul Kimmage in his book?

    As Lucy says, 2 days after the Tour, not March, or at the dinner table, during the race itself.

    Isnt it strange when Bertie makes comments about Lance's character its fine and dandy and correct but when Lance makes comments about Berties character he is a bully etc etc...............a lot of posters in here when it comes to LA are guilty of double standards as i pointed out at the very start of this thread.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    afx237vi wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    Contatdor did start it two days after the TDF finished but here Blaze is being toungue in cheek there but it seems to have went right over your head .

    Got any links to back that up?

    Still waiting for you to give me an example of when I made unfounded doping allegations against riders, too.

    You dont remebr Bertie shooting off two days after the Toutrwhen he made his personal comments about Lance. On the other issue Your post about Sean Yates was removed due to the unfounded allegations contained within it. The site mods were not best pleased with you iirc

    1. That's it? Contador saying he thinks Lance is a great champion, but doesn't like him as a person. One comment all year.

    The first comment of many regarding LA,the team the hotel the wheels etc etc

    2 So in thread regarding Sean Yates being employed by Sky and the negativity regarding it becuase of an alleged doping infraction which subsequently was shown to be incorrect you made a comment in that thread regarding Sean Yates and the post was removed becuase of what it contained and you now deny it was about doping...........ffs come off it.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Moray Gub wrote:
    2 So in thread regarding Sean Yates being employed by Sky and the negativity regarding it becuase of an alleged doping infraction which subsequently was shown to be incorrect you made a comment in that thread regarding Sean Yates and the post was removed becuase of what it contained and you now deny it was about doping...........ffs come off it.

    Yes, I deny it was about doping, and nor did it concern Sean Yates. Have you got a better example where you actually know what you're talking about, rather than making random and uninformed guesses?
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    afx237vi wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    2 So in thread regarding Sean Yates being employed by Sky and the negativity regarding it becuase of an alleged doping infraction which subsequently was shown to be incorrect you made a comment in that thread regarding Sean Yates and the post was removed becuase of what it contained and you now deny it was about doping...........ffs come off it.

    Yes, I deny it was about doping, and nor did it concern Sean Yates. Have you got a better example where you actually know what you're talking about, rather than making random and uninformed guesses?

    It did concern Yates ,listen you know it was about doping and so do i you got pulled for it so lets leave it at that.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Moray Gub wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    2 So in thread regarding Sean Yates being employed by Sky and the negativity regarding it becuase of an alleged doping infraction which subsequently was shown to be incorrect you made a comment in that thread regarding Sean Yates and the post was removed becuase of what it contained and you now deny it was about doping...........ffs come off it.

    Yes, I deny it was about doping, and nor did it concern Sean Yates. Have you got a better example where you actually know what you're talking about, rather than making random and uninformed guesses?

    Listen you know it was about doping and so do i you got pulled for it i lets leave it at that.

    Why? You're wrong. It's a bit ironic that you accuse me of making unfounded claims of doping, when you're making some unfounded claims of your own right here. If you can tell me what I said about Yates, I'd love to hear it.
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    afx237vi wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    2 So in thread regarding Sean Yates being employed by Sky and the negativity regarding it becuase of an alleged doping infraction which subsequently was shown to be incorrect you made a comment in that thread regarding Sean Yates and the post was removed becuase of what it contained and you now deny it was about doping...........ffs come off it.

    Yes, I deny it was about doping, and nor did it concern Sean Yates. Have you got a better example where you actually know what you're talking about, rather than making random and uninformed guesses?

    Listen you know it was about doping and so do i you got pulled for it i lets leave it at that.

    Why? You're wrong. It's a bit ironic that you accuse me of making unfounded claims of doping, when you're making some unfounded claims of your own right here. If you can tell me what I said about Yates, I'd love to hear it.

    I suppose it easy to say it wasnt about doping or Sean Yates becuase the post no longer exists. But it was in the Yates thread and it was about a doping infraction and you did what you often do you dived in with both feet. Problem was the mods were not having it so you got your erse skelped and your post was removed. Do you deny this ?
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    Moray Gub wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    2 So in thread regarding Sean Yates being employed by Sky and the negativity regarding it becuase of an alleged doping infraction which subsequently was shown to be incorrect you made a comment in that thread regarding Sean Yates and the post was removed becuase of what it contained and you now deny it was about doping...........ffs come off it.

    Yes, I deny it was about doping, and nor did it concern Sean Yates. Have you got a better example where you actually know what you're talking about, rather than making random and uninformed guesses?

    Listen you know it was about doping and so do i you got pulled for it i lets leave it at that.

    Why? You're wrong. It's a bit ironic that you accuse me of making unfounded claims of doping, when you're making some unfounded claims of your own right here. If you can tell me what I said about Yates, I'd love to hear it.

    I suppose it easy to say it wasnt about doping or Sean Yates becuase the post no longer exists. But it was in the Yates thread and it was about a doping infraction and you did what you often do you dived in with both feet. Problem was the mods were not having it so you got your erse skelped and your post was removed. Do you deny this ?

    If this relates to a PM conversation i had with afx regarding his deleted post I can categorically state it was NOT about Yates (or about doping) but rather another DS.
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    calvjones wrote:


    If this relates to a PM conversation i had with afx regarding his deleted post I can categorically state it was NOT about Yates (or about doping) but rather another DS.

    How handy.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    Moray Gub wrote:
    calvjones wrote:


    If this relates to a PM conversation i had with afx regarding his deleted post I can categorically state it was NOT about Yates (or about doping) but rather another DS.[/

    How handy.

    sorry Moray, are you calling me a liar?
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    calvjones wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    calvjones wrote:


    If this relates to a PM conversation i had with afx regarding his deleted post I can categorically state it was NOT about Yates (or about doping) but rather another DS.[/

    How handy.

    sorry Moray, are you calling me a liar?


    What you and he discussed in a pm is between you and him and i couldnt really give a monkeys what it was about, all i know is he made a comment about Sean Yates and it had to be deleted . As for calling you a liar if i had wanted to do that i would have done so if you think i have then so be it. Dont really care either way.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    But I have just told you that if its the same deleted post we're talking about, it was nothing to do with Yates. So if thet's the case, either I'm lying (for no discernible reason I can fathom) or you are.. wait for it... the W word,,,



    You forgot the 'so THERE. NAH!' at the end by the way. :wink:
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    Moray Gub wrote:
    But saying he had a lot to learn was not a snipe more like a pertinent observation at the time and he lost a prestigious stage race as a result. It works both ways you see after all posters in here are saying Bertie personal comments after the Tour were not sniping...........yea yea i know ridiculous but still you know what they are like in here.

    When is a pertinent observation, not a personal comment?
    Lance criticised, incorrectly as it turned out, Berto's tactical maturity.
    To me, it's both, at best. At worst, it's a barb.

    Contador's remark simply states that the two aren't on friendly terms.
    In specific terms, it almost equates to no comment.
    Very, very restrained, given the obvious tension at the Tour.
    Personal? Surely, but also an observation.

    Of course, the other thing is this.
    If Lance is replying to this comment, why wait 5 months to do so and in this fashion?

    Sorry to interrupt the forum's own personal war of words. :wink:
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

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