Evans: That's your Lotto

redddraggon

Perhaps Cadel is going to have a go at the Giro in 2010? Perhaps he doesn't see the point in the Tour with Contador around?

Richrd2205

It appears that BMC have managed this a lot better than Sky.
Y'know, I like BC & Dave Brailsford & all, but Team Sky are quite not-very-good-at-all-even-when-you-try-to-pretend-they-might-be.
BMC have managed to sign names that are both big & move them towards specific goals. Credit to them for that.
Sky have signed some OK domestiques & some might-be-good-in-5-years riders. BMC have the same level of domestiques & promise, but a degree of proven talent.
Looking at the two approaches, it's hard to even debate which is the better approach.
Hindsight might tell me different but.

& good for Cadel & hope he gets some support this next year

jerry3571

Someone mentioned a couple of pages ago that Evans and Prudomme were on good terms and being a stalker; I have the evidence-



-Jerry

Ps- I remember the other guy being Prudomme (the other handshaker on the right) but it doesn't look 100% like him though :?

SpaceJunk

Not sure if you guys have seen this before or not:

http://www.cadelevans.com.au/theShop.aspx

Art Vandelay

For BMC, as a manufacturer of high-end bicycles, this surprise signing is a huge step forward. “We want to increase BMC awareness, popularity and sales worldwide. By signing Cadel Evans, we have laid the groundwork to promote the brand not only in Australia but around the world. We have now put our cards on the table and hope to be on the start line in the 2010 Tour de France,” according to Andy Rihs. “The current World Champion, Cadel Evans, as a BMC Racing Team member, will be giving his input into the advancements of our high-end product range which is an enormous opportunity for the company since for the best riders, only the best equipment is good enough,” stated Mike Hürlimann, BMC CEO. “Having a rider like Cadel under contract will be a huge motivation for us. We will enthusiastically aspire to stay true to our traditionally cutting edge innovations and work daily to make the BMC brand as good as it can be. ”

www.bmcracingteam.com

Sold by Evans and now ridden by Evans!
http://www.evanscycles.com/news-and-events/bmc-bikes-arrive-at-evans-cycles

Arkibal

STAND ON MY DOG AND I'LL CUT YOUR HEAD OFF!


http://www.bikeradar.com/blogs/article/ ... orld-17691

Le Commentateur

If they signed him he'd be the only guy on Sky with a proven record in grand tours and that's worth a whole bunch.

Another way of looking at that would be to ask how much use the rest of the Sky team would have been to him in a grand tour.

top_bhoy

Le Commentateur wrote:

If they signed him he'd be the only guy on Sky with a proven record in grand tours and that's worth a whole bunch.

Another way of looking at that would be to ask how much use the rest of the Sky team would have been to him in a grand tour.

...........probably a great deal more use than those 'team mates' found in his Lotto team days

Edit: To be fair to the Lotto riders...for a few tours they did find that they were primarily in support of Robbie McEwan with Evans a secondary thought.

Ash_

afx237vi wrote:

Where did BMC get the money to sign all these big riders? Hincapie, Evans, Ballan, Kroon, Burghardt... no new sponsors and virtually no fanfare about the team wanting to get bigger. It just happened. Last year their biggest name was... er... Alex Moos!

Yeah, but they've gone about things the 'right' way. Instead of just splashing the cash on some 'names' they've done all the necessary networking last year. DS Lelangue is a former ASO employee and by riding events like the Tour of Qatar and Paris-Roubaix (both ASO events), they've put themselves in a good position to get a Tour wildcard invite.

I think they'll have a better 2010 as a team than Sky will (although individual Sky riders will win more events) - if that makes sense.

Although I did buy a BMC frame yesterday, so I might be a little biased...

blazing_saddles

I bet Vacansoleil and Skil are really pleased by BMC's signing and shift of onus. :roll:
Cash for queue jumping.

As for their squad.
They are a decent classics outfit.

andyp

Richrd2205 wrote:

It appears that BMC have managed this a lot better than Sky.
Y'know, I like BC & Dave Brailsford & all, but Team Sky are quite not-very-good-at-all-even-when-you-try-to-pretend-they-might-be.
BMC have managed to sign names that are both big & move them towards specific goals. Credit to them for that.
Sky have signed some OK domestiques & some might-be-good-in-5-years riders. BMC have the same level of domestiques & promise, but a degree of proven talent.
Looking at the two approaches, it's hard to even debate which is the better approach.
Hindsight might tell me different but.

& good for Cadel & hope he gets some support this next year

Evans currently has no mountain domestiques in the BMC line up so he's going to be left isolated again in the mountains. Their team is classics heavy.

Sky have recruited a few old heads like Flecha, Arvesen and Barry, plus young talent that they hope will blossom in their team, like Lovkvist, Froome and Gerrans. Finally they have EBH, who is without doubt the brightest prospect in the sport, i.e. he can win on cobbles, hilly courses, in bunch sprints and time trials. As someone else has said in this thread, it would be a reasonable wager to bet that EBH wins more races himself than the entire BMC team.

I think your assessment is way off, but we'll see next season.

greeny12

I agree with you Andy. The Sky-knockers are forgetting that Brailsford simply doesn't do short term.

And anyone who thinks EBH is a "might be good in 5 years" kind of rider doesn't have much credibility in my eyes either...

SpaceJunk

I've just got back from a Cadel Evans' meet & greet session (he has a book out).

It was really interesting actually. There were about 300 or so of us, and we were granted a 60 min open forum to ask as many questions as we could.

Evans did concede that the BMC roster is full, and he is still short of climbing domestiques. However, he and the team see this as a 3 year project, (to win the Tour of course).

BMC approached Evans (several months ago), and the two parties have been working on a deal ever since. When asked, Cadel said that no other team had made any formal approaches - some did put the feelers out though.

I used to find Evans quirky and prickly (if you can use those adjectives). Tonight he came across as intelligent, very articulate, and above all things funny. He is a very intriguing character.

My wife was dragged along with me tonight (she started reading the book). It's interesting - Cadel was a only child, knew hardly anyone his own age (whilst a child), and never participated in team sports.

You wonder how much of his personality has been influenced due to these factors.

cal_stewart

just as well, he might as well of ridden the last couple of GT's on his own. Still he can't get any worst support from BMC than Lotto! Still i think MONEY

cal_stewart

just as well, he might as well of ridden the last couple of GT's on his own. Still he can't get any worst support from BMC than Lotto! Still i think MONEY!

Plus that pic on the deal report makes him look like a dwarf

SpaceJunk

Cal_Stewart wrote:

just as well, he might as well of ridden the last couple of GT's on his own. Still he can't get any worst support from BMC than Lotto! Still i think MONEY

Evans has stated he is not getting paid anymore riding for BMC than he was @ Silence. Since BMC have come out and said they want to market their bikes to the Australian Market, Evans may have some cut in a distribution agreement?

FJS

Cal_Stewart wrote:

just as well, he might as well of ridden the last couple of GT's on his own. Still he can't get any worst support from BMC than Lotto! Still i think MONEY

Please. The support he will get at BMC in the high mountains is far, far worse. The idea that Evans' failures to win the Tour de France have been down solely to his lack of support at Lotto is a myth anyway.

This year Jurgen van den Broeck would have been an excellent mountain domestique, with Lloyd and Wegelius as very decent back-up. After the TTT Evans was still in a good position to get on the podium, if he would have had the form he had in the Dauphine and Vuelta. He was never realistically going to challenge Contador for the win anyway.

In 2008 Evans lost the Tour on Alpe d'Huez; at the bottom of the climb he still had Popovich and Van Summeren with him. When Sastre attacked there was a really small select group of chasers, where other favorites like Menchov and Valverde didn't have any support anymore aither. Evans simply could not follow Sastre's attack. With Popovych, Cioni, Van Summeren and Aerts he ahd decent support in the mountains.

In 2007 not being able to follow Contador and Rasmussen in the Pyrenees and losing to Contador due to Lotto team support? Of course not.

Yes, he hasn't had the advantages of multiple-GC-contender teams like SaxoBank and Astana, but the idea that he has had the worst support possible at Lotto is simply not true.

And his move to BMC confirms that. If he was so concerned over his lack of support surely BMC would not be the place to go to.

At Lotto he would have Van den Broeck, Moreno, Lloyd, and De Greef.
At BMC? I really can't see anyone for the high mountains, nobody even close to the climbing skills of Van den Broeck or Moreno.

jim one

FJS I think you are bigging up Silence a bit to much. Yes Cadel did not have the legs, but in 2007 if Rasmussen had not been on the start line then Cadel would have won as Contador would have had to solo away and Evans could follow several of his attacks. Think the Galibier stage where Evans could follow the inital Contador attack. Then the Aubisque when Evans was dropped he would then ride his way back upto Contador and Rasmussen until the last 3km.

2008 Cadel did not go with Sastre because he was 90+seconds behind Cadel while Frank Schleck was in the yellow. If Evans went after Sastre then Schleck would have then gone, and vice versa knowing Evans would crack with repeated accelerations.

This year it seemed JVB was intent on getting in the break every day to bag a stage win. Above all Evans is a diesel who needs a strong team to control the pace, taking out all the small accelerations.

Ash_

FJS wrote:

With Popovych, Cioni, Van Summeren and Aerts he had decent support in the mountains.

Things weren't exactly harmonious in the 2008 Lotto squad though, were they?

Just because those guys were on the roster and in the TDF team, doesn't mean they were giving their all for Evans, Popovych quite blatantly at times.

However, to what extent Evans was guilty over this for being a bit of a loner is also worth considering.

Just goes to show that cycling is a team sport.

Still, Evans need not worry about lack of support at BMC. If he fails to make his mark next year there won't be any in-depth analysis of where he or the team have gone wrong, sports journalists will just trot out the tried-and-trusted 'curse of the rainbow jersey' stories to explain away any failures.

blazing_saddles

With full roster and a Giro nod, they had better hope that the TDF invite isn't in the post, until 2011.
Ballan, Kroon and he may have to stick to stage assaults, because they don't have the ammo for contending a GC.

iainf72

Couldn't you argue that suits Evans.

He could say now "yeah, the team isn't strong enough yet", takes the focus off him and lets him do a ride. He won't win but he'll be able to get a good position. Is his position for 2010 any different than with Lotto, aside from he won't have to compete with a local boy from his own team for top position.

Will anyone be beating Contador or Schleckette? Nope.

Here's a question : If Evans had ridden for CSC, how many grand tours would he have won by now?

FJS

jim one wrote:

FJS I think you are bigging up Silence a bit to much. Yes Cadel did not have the legs, but in 2007 if Rasmussen had not been on the start line then Cadel would have won as Contador would have had to solo away and Evans could follow several of his attacks.

I'm sorry, but I think you're bigging Evans up. Evans could not follow Contador (and Rasmussen) at all on the Plateau de Beille and on the Peyresourde. On the Aubisque he could only ride back because Contador cracked after trying to drop Rasmussen unsuccessfully. If a amazingly strong Rasmussen would not have been there it is likley Contador would not have cracked and taken time on Evans again on the Aubisque.

jim one wrote:

2008 Cadel did not go with Sastre because he was 90+seconds behind Cadel while Frank Schleck was in the yellow. If Evans went after Sastre then Schleck would have then gone, and vice versa knowing Evans would crack with repeated accelerations.

Come on, Evans was only 8 seconds behind Frank Schleck - everyone knew Evans would easily take that and a couple of minutes more in the last TT. Sastre was much more dangerous. It is true that CSC had tha advantage of being able to play with three top GC contenders, and create a small group with all domestiques of all teams dropped but still 3 CSCs. But that has nothing to do with a particular weakness of Lotto domestiques. As I said, none of the other favorites had any domestiques left either.

frenchfighter

Schleckette. That is good, I like it. Suits him too.

And on the Schlecks, here is what Frank had to say.......

“Andy and I have agreed already that in 2010, he will win the Amstel Gold Race, and I am sure I will take Liège -Bastogne-Liège.”

jim one

FJS wrote:

jim one wrote:

FJS I think you are bigging up Silence a bit to much. Yes Cadel did not have the legs, but in 2007 if Rasmussen had not been on the start line then Cadel would have won as Contador would have had to solo away and Evans could follow several of his attacks.

I'm sorry, but I think you're bigging Evans up. Evans could not follow Contador (and Rasmussen) at all on the Plateau de Beille and on the Peyresourde. On the Aubisque he could only ride back because Contador cracked after trying to drop Rasmussen unsuccessfully. If a amazingly strong Rasmussen would not have been there it is likley Contador would not have cracked and taken time on Evans again on the Aubisque.

jim one wrote:

2008 Cadel did not go with Sastre because he was 90+seconds behind Cadel while Frank Schleck was in the yellow. If Evans went after Sastre then Schleck would have then gone, and vice versa knowing Evans would crack with repeated accelerations.

Come on, Evans was only 8 seconds behind Frank Schleck - everyone knew Evans would easily take that and a couple of minutes more in the last TT. Sastre was much more dangerous. It is true that CSC had tha advantage of being able to play with three top GC contenders, and create a small group with all domestiques of all teams dropped but still 3 CSCs. But that has nothing to do with a particular weakness of Lotto domestiques. As I said, none of the other favorites had any domestiques left either.

On the Perysourde Evans did not follow and I would put that down to him knowing he could not follow the other 2. PdB however if you rewatch it, you will see it takes about 4 or 5 accelerations between Contador and Rasmussen before he cracks. If there was only Contador he had to hang onto I believe he would have lasted longer. Then it would have been Sastre, Soler and Evans taking turns on the pace against just Contador into the headwind they had near the top. 3 against 1 I would have expected the time gap to be less.

Of course all the domestiques had dropped off by this point; but everyone was looking at Evans to set the pace which the Schleck brothers then kept disrupting and ruining the rhythm Evans was setting. Evans lost his team mates on the previous climb, although they got back on, but he had no one shiedling him from the wind/getting bottles or food for him earlier in the stage which means wasting physical and mental energy. Popo quite frankly was useless.

Sastre was the best climber of 2008 I will not deny that but I think Cadel did the best riding within his capabilities to try and limit the loss. You only have to see the end of the stage where they all try and jump away from him to show what would have happened much sooner if he had gone all out chasing down every attack.

FJS

jim one wrote:

If there was only Contador he had to hang onto I believe he would have lasted longer.
Sastre was the best climber of 2008 I will not deny that but I think Cadel did the best riding within his capabilities to try and limit the loss. You only have to see the end of the stage where they all try and jump away from him to show what would have happened much sooner if he had gone all out chasing down every attack.

What would have happened in 2007 if Rasmussen would not have been there is speculation, but I maintain that it is more likely that Contador would have taken more time on Evans without a battle with Rasmussen to wear him out - it would ahve been a different race with attacks at different moments; you can't just brush out Rasmussen and suggest the race would have unfolded in the same way. Anyway, it has nothing to do with the team support Evans got.
I think we both agree on 2008 that Sastre was greatly helped by being in the CSC team with three GC contenders; something Evans did not have. But that is not the norm for GC favorites anyway and does not set Evans apart - Menchov, Kirchen, Cunego, Valverde were also the only GC contender in their team. And they didn't have significantly better helpers for the mountains than Evans (they might have managed and used them better, but that's another story).

Evans didn't win the 2007 Tour because Contador was a bit better, the 2009 Tour because Contador and Schleck were a lot better and some others better in form at the right moment, and he didn't win the 2008 Tour because he wasn't significantly better than Sastre and didn't have the advantage of the CSC team - if he would have been in Rabobank, Caisse, Columbia or Lampre he still wouldn't have won.

frenchfighter

Cyclingnews.com

"I punctured on the climb and was attended to by Shimano Neutral Assistance. [Samuel] Sanchez had been dropped and the team cars were 40 seconds behind. Neutral assistance stopped and I know that climb quite well and knew I could have kept riding but I wanted to change the wheel there because the descent ahead of the Sierra Nevada is quite fast and there's a corner there that I'd rather not take on a half-deflated tubular if I was to get to the finish safely.

"I stopped there, they arrived, and I don't know exactly what happened; there were two mechanics, about three different wheels and they couldn't put them in. Because it was such a ridiculous episode the TV and photographers stopped, blocking the team cars from coming through. It was the quick thinking of the Silence-Lotto team mechanic who thought, 'Shit, there's something wrong' and was running up through the traffic trying to give me my spare bike. I saw that and that's when I went.

"Because I had to change bikes I didn't take my bottle with me and there was still an hour to go - it was about 50km to the top of Sierra Nevada. It was down to five or six contenders - the guys who were there for the win - and I had to get a bottle so I grabbed one and they gave me a 10-second penalty. Ironically it was 1:23 for the wheel change and 10 second for the bottle and then I was second at 1:32 then third at 1:32 by the end of the race.

"I was just furious about it at the end...I felt that I didn't deserve that. It was really unlucky; that's the way it was and unfortunately people start saying, 'Oh, you can't win a race...' At least some people can see that maybe I was doing something right."

FJS

iainf72 wrote:

Here's a question : If Evans had ridden for CSC, how many grand tours would he have won by now?

It wouldn't have made a difference in 2007 or 2009 for the TdF. In 2008 if he would have been in some kind of monster team with Sastre, Schleck, Schleck and Evans, he might well have won it, although it's speculation whether Riis would or would not have allowed Sastre to attack on Alpe d'Huez like he did.

But like afx wrote, Evans isn't really the kind of person for a group hug team building type team. He wouldn't have fitted easily into CSC.

top_bhoy

FJS wrote:

After the TTT Evans was still in a good position to get on the podium, if he would have had the form he had in the Dauphine and Vuelta.

Disagree. I think he was completely stuffed - and worse, he probably knew it himself, after the TTT. There were just too many top riders in front of him to get past.

FJS

Top_Bhoy wrote:

FJS wrote:

After the TTT Evans was still in a good position to get on the podium, if he would have had the form he had in the Dauphine and Vuelta.

Disagree. I think he was completely stuffed - and worse, he probably knew it himself, after the TTT. There were just too many top riders in front of him to get past.

Sorry, but IMHO opinion that is rewriting history. Evans lost only 15 seconds to Menchov and 58 seconds on Sastre, two main rivals for the podium at that stage (much bigger favorites at that point than Armstrong, Wiggins or Nibali). Evans did lose 1'55'' on the Schlecks, but with a much better TT that shouldn't have been a mission impossible.

After the TTT Evans was still 35th in the GC, just 15 seconds behind Sastre, 42" behind Frank S., and 1'18" behind Andy. Yes, he was 2'59 behind Armstrong, but it was completely unclear at that stage what Lance could do in the mountains. Cancellara, Wiggins, Millar, Zabriskie, Martin, etc. could all be expected to lose minutes in the mountains (at that stage, that Wiggins and initially Martin would climb so much stronger was unsuspected).

Yes, what was clear after the TTT was that Evans would not win the Tour and reclaim 2'40" on Contador. But that was never a realistic option anyway. Contador was always way above the rest, and all the others were still within grasp with a good fight and if Evans would have been in the shape of the 2007 and 2008 TdF, or this year's Vuelta.

top_bhoy

Very antagonistic posting style. Rewriting history - it was my opinion based on Slience-Lottos TTT performance.Just like yours is an opinion which I don't agree with. However, your opinion is not any more valid than mine.

Back on track...was it form or was it down to internal team politics which mentally fatigued Evans. If a previous post is to be taken at face value, he had been discussing a move with BMC earlier in the year so all was clearly not all OK in the Silence-Lotto camp.

After the TTT he would have been fighting the other big hitters with a team, which for whatever reason, really weren't together and ready to suffer to help him. He realised form previous tours he wasn't capable of beating on his own, organised teams which consisted of several contendors.