Nick Griffin on question time

pedylan

The BNP's core policy is immigration. There is a reasonable case to be made to control any country's borders and to restrict the rights of non citizens.

Griffin's party then takes the immigration issue and twists it in two key ways. Firstly, it claims that "indigenous" Britons are treated like second class citizens, appealing to perceived grievances and creating animosity. Secondly it takes a range of problems like crime and benefit fraud and claims immigrant communities are disproportionately responsible.

So by claiming that immigrants are given special privileges, preferential access to benefits and housing and that they are responsible for theft, violence and disorder the BNP create a climate of hate. That advances the racist agenda very satisfactorily.

The BNP then dress up the remainder of their party political agenda with phrases like "Putting Britain First" etc and appear to be standing on perfectly reasonable policies.

Let's not pretend that they are just another political party. They are poisonous racists posing as serious politicians with legitimate policies. If there's a reason for excluding them from programmes like QT then that would be it.

guilliano

You don't, your parents do

finchy

teagar wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

teagar wrote:

I can think of plenty of people who are born and bred UK citizens who don't meet those requirements

Just because the Dutch have a stereotype of being liberal doesn't mean they actually are.

Gert Wilders got a ridiculous amount of seats in the EU, and he's a professional bell end.

What's the salary for that then?

The things he's come out with and said in the Dutch parliament is just silly. He acts like a bellend. You just need to see everyone's reaction to what he's saying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTb4uJ_5wpg

I have heard of the bloke before. So what was he saying? (just a couple of choice phrases, don't need the whole lot)

finchy

pedylan wrote:

The BNP's core policy is immigration. There is a reasonable case to be made to control any country's borders and to restrict the rights of non citizens.

Griffin's party then takes the immigration issue and twists it in two key ways. Firstly, it claims that "indigenous" Britons are treated like second class citizens, appealing to perceived grievances and creating animosity. Secondly it takes a range of problems like crime and benefit fraud and claims immigrant communities are disproportionately responsible.

So by claiming that immigrants are given special privileges, preferential access to benefits and housing and that they are responsible for theft, violence and disorder the BNP create a climate of hate. That advances the racist agenda very satisfactorily.

The BNP then dress up the remainder of their party political agenda with phrases like "Putting Britain First" etc and appear to be standing on perfectly reasonable policies.

Let's not pretend that they are just another political party. They are poisonous racists posing as serious politicians with legitimate policies. If there's a reason for excluding them from programmes like QT then that would be it.

When I used to work in a council education department we had some people ring us up and complain about the preferential treatment that refugees were getting for school transport. It was 100% bollox, not a word of truth in it, and when we asked them where they'd got their info from, they said it was the BNP newspaper. :roll:

guilliano

Part of the problem is that people see immigrants coming into the UK and a small minority take advantage of the benefits system in the same way as a minority of the "indiginous" population. The immigrants doing it get a hell of a lot of press coverage, the "Brits" don't. There is a benefits culture and a problematic immigration policy that combine to give people like Nick Griffin a basis on which to campaign and this is something that needs tackling, along with many other problems that are currently leaving the UK in an insolvent state.

afx237vi

Less than few minutes in and Griffin has already resorted to personal attacks on Jack Straw's family. The man can't debate.

afx237vi

LOL@ non-violent branch of the KKK :roll:

sicknote

afx237vi wrote:

LOL@ non-violent branch of the KKK :roll:

I would not be to sure about that as you do you think it was that killed Stevehan Lawrance (s)
The guys that did it were know to be members.

They are just the NF ( National front ) in new cloths

afx237vi

Sicknote wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

LOL@ non-violent branch of the KKK :roll:

I would not be to sure about that as you do you think it was that killed Stevehan Lawrance (s)
The guys that did it were know to be members.

They are just the NF ( National front ) in new cloths

:?:

I was laughing at the claim, not agreeing with it.

sicknote

Ok sorry misread it but was also not having a go at you, just saying.

Smokin Joe

Sicknote wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

LOL@ non-violent branch of the KKK :roll:

I would not be to sure about that as you do you think it was that killed Stevehan Lawrance (s)
The guys that did it were know to be members.

They are just the NF ( National front ) in new cloths

No-one was convicted of murdering Stephen Lawrence, there was never enough evidence to prove who the murderer(s) were.

Maybe they did and they got away with it, but then again maybe the police picked on easy targets as they have often done when under intense pressure to secure a conviction (Guildford four, Birmingham six, Colin Stagg, Bobby George etc).

Unless you were there you don't know.

sicknote

Smokin Joe wrote:

Sicknote wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

LOL@ non-violent branch of the KKK :roll:

I would not be to sure about that as you do you think it was that killed Stevehan Lawrance (s)
The guys that did it were know to be members.

They are just the NF ( National front ) in new cloths

No-one was convicted of murdering Stephen Lawrence, there was never enough evidence to prove who the murderer(s) were.

Maybe they did and they got away with it, but then again maybe the police picked on easy targets as they have often done when under intense pressure to secure a conviction (Guildford four, Birmingham six, Colin Stagg, Bobby George etc).

Did you see the video of them or follow the case at all.

The video did not show them in a good light as they were talking about stabbing someone and doing the actions with a a large kitchen knife or looking more in to the case did not show some of the police did much to try and catch who did do it.

Smokin Joe

Sicknote wrote:

Smokin Joe wrote:

Sicknote wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

LOL@ non-violent branch of the KKK :roll:

I would not be to sure about that as you do you think it was that killed Stevehan Lawrance (s)
The guys that did it were know to be members.

They are just the NF ( National front ) in new cloths

No-one was convicted of murdering Stephen Lawrence, there was never enough evidence to prove who the murderer(s) were.

Maybe they did and they got away with it, but then again maybe the police picked on easy targets as they have often done when under intense pressure to secure a conviction (Guildford four, Birmingham six, Colin Stagg, Bobby George etc).

Did you see the video of them or follow the case at all.

The video did not show them in a good light as they were talking about stabbing someone and doing the actions with a a large kitchen knife or looking more in to the case did not show some of the police did much to try and catch who did do it.

Yes, I saw the video and followed the case. The suspects were undoubably nasty pieces of work who you wouldn't want as neighbours, but there were and are many thousands of people who are just as bad or worse. That does not prove that they commited this particular murder.

redddraggon

Nick Griffin doesn't seem that bright, how did he get into Cambridge?

sicknote

Smokin Joe wrote:

Sicknote wrote:

Smokin Joe wrote:

Sicknote wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

LOL@ non-violent branch of the KKK :roll:

I would not be to sure about that as you do you think it was that killed Stevehan Lawrance (s)
The guys that did it were know to be members.

They are just the NF ( National front ) in new cloths

No-one was convicted of murdering Stephen Lawrence, there was never enough evidence to prove who the murderer(s) were.

Maybe they did and they got away with it, but then again maybe the police picked on easy targets as they have often done when under intense pressure to secure a conviction (Guildford four, Birmingham six, Colin Stagg, Bobby George etc).

Did you see the video of them or follow the case at all.

The video did not show them in a good light as they were talking about stabbing someone and doing the actions with a a large kitchen knife or looking more in to the case did not show some of the police did much to try and catch who did do it.

Yes, I saw the video and followed the case. The suspects were undoubably nasty pieces of work who you wouldn't want as neighbours, but there were and are many thousands of people who are just as bad or worse. That does not prove that they commited this particular murder.

You are right in saying it does not prove it was them but as the police also did a poor job in the first place I guess we will never know for sure.

We are also getting away from the point that that BNP are just the new NF and I remember them well around east london when I lived there, plus they marches just down the road from me when I first got my house in north london.

afx237vi

Anyway, it was an interesting debate. Dimbleby held it together better than I thought he would.

Griffin didn't score any points whatsoever as far as I could tell. He was rattled right from the gun when Dimbleby pwned him over the "misquotes" that were attributed to him. The holocaust denial stuff obviously made him look like a complete tit.

The most interesting bit was Straw, Warsi and Huhne scrambling over themselves to prove how tough on immigration they are.

I reckon I spotted two BNP plants in the audience. Fat bloke in white shirt rambling on about the EU, and a bloke who looked like he hadn't a wash in 3 months rambling incoherently about... well, something, I don't know what.

afx237vi

redddraggon wrote:

Nick Griffin doesn't seem that bright, how did he get into Cambridge?

He only got a 2:2

Crapaud

redddraggon wrote:

Nick Griffin doesn't seem that bright, how did he get into Cambridge?

He came across as very David Brent-like, ie. an embarrassing knobend.

balthazar

afx237vi wrote:

Griffin didn't score any points whatsoever as far as I could tell.

I agree. Though I supported his exposure on the show, I was afraid that his deranged party might be legitimised by that in itself; however, he proved to be both appallingly honest and comically incoherent, in ways I'm sure he'd have preferred were reversed. For a moment I thought he was about to suffer an emotional collapse. Sadly that didn't happen, but I think the BNP are weaker than before for this.

Jez mon

Hmmm slightly disappointed that we didn't actually find out what the BNP's views on current affairs were. Instead it was an hour of BNP bashing, still entertaining and insightful, but I think treating them as you would any other political party might be more interesting. Other than that, I'm not quite sure how Griffin got into Cambridge he doesn't seem ultra sharp IMHO. He also doesn't behave like a politician and looked out of depth next to Jack Straw and Chris Hume.

It's good that they got their say it's shown that they're idiots and unlike the nazi party don't have any convincing speaker behind them, nor do they have impressive presentation. What he said about the Nazis in this country calling him a sell out is true, someone I know used to subscribe to far right politics and called the BNP the "hug a ******* party"

moray_gub

afx237vi wrote:

Anyway, it was an interesting debate. Dimbleby held it together better than I thought he would.

Griffin didn't score any points whatsoever as far as I could tell. He was rattled right from the gun when Dimbleby pwned him over the "misquotes" that were attributed to him. The holocaust denial stuff obviously made him look like a complete tit.

The most interesting bit was Straw, Warsi and Huhne scrambling over themselves to prove how tough on immigration they are.

I reckon I spotted two BNP plants in the audience. Fat bloke in white shirt rambling on about the EU, and a bloke who looked like he hadn't a wash in 3 months rambling incoherently about... well, something, I don't know what.

I thought Dimbleby was appalling tonight as chair of QT he is supposed to be impartial much as i disagree with most if not all of what Griffin says Dimbleby was clearly hell bent on putting it to him. As for the audience i dont think the BBC could have picked a better bunch of plants to have a go at Griffin all night. The whole show just came across as the whole panel and a lot of the audience basically ganging up on one man and not allowing him to answer questions the way the other panelists were i would have liked to hear what he had say on a lot of issues but too many provocateurs in the audience looking for their 15 secs of fame. If ever the BNP got a shot in the arm it was definately tonight.

teagar

I thought he'd do better than that. I guess I gave him too much credit. He looked uncomfortable, couldn't get into his stride and couldn't roll out his flat-out denials.

The only concern (mentioned on the week, afterwards), was that he may pick up some sympathy after watching the entire pannel and audience against him and picking on him.

I'm surprised he got as much as a 2.2 in his history degree given his marshalling of 'facts' relating to the Holocaust.


Edit: Moray's post above ^- an example of my concern!

teagar

Moray Gub wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

Anyway, it was an interesting debate. Dimbleby held it together better than I thought he would.

Griffin didn't score any points whatsoever as far as I could tell. He was rattled right from the gun when Dimbleby pwned him over the "misquotes" that were attributed to him. The holocaust denial stuff obviously made him look like a complete tit.

The most interesting bit was Straw, Warsi and Huhne scrambling over themselves to prove how tough on immigration they are.

I reckon I spotted two BNP plants in the audience. Fat bloke in white shirt rambling on about the EU, and a bloke who looked like he hadn't a wash in 3 months rambling incoherently about... well, something, I don't know what.

I thought Dimbleby was appalling tonight as chair of QT he is supposed to be impartial much as i disagree with most if not all of what Griffin says Dimbleby was clearly hell bent on putting it to him. As for the audience i dont think the BBC could have picked a better bunch of plants to have a go at Griffin all night. The whole show just came across as the whole panel and a lot of the audience basically ganging up on one man and not allowing him to answer questions the way the other panelists were. If ever the BNP got a shot in the arm it was definately tonight.

Dimbelby regularly plays devils advocate and challenges, pushes, prods the pannel and regularly gives them a hard time, especially those who have been slated in the press just before. That's dead normal for question time. Griffin had a lot to answer for, and Dimelby made sure those questions were asked.

moray_gub

teagar wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

Anyway, it was an interesting debate. Dimbleby held it together better than I thought he would.

Griffin didn't score any points whatsoever as far as I could tell. He was rattled right from the gun when Dimbleby pwned him over the "misquotes" that were attributed to him. The holocaust denial stuff obviously made him look like a complete tit.

The most interesting bit was Straw, Warsi and Huhne scrambling over themselves to prove how tough on immigration they are.

I reckon I spotted two BNP plants in the audience. Fat bloke in white shirt rambling on about the EU, and a bloke who looked like he hadn't a wash in 3 months rambling incoherently about... well, something, I don't know what.

I thought Dimbleby was appalling tonight as chair of QT he is supposed to be impartial much as i disagree with most if not all of what Griffin says Dimbleby was clearly hell bent on putting it to him. As for the audience i dont think the BBC could have picked a better bunch of plants to have a go at Griffin all night. The whole show just came across as the whole panel and a lot of the audience basically ganging up on one man and not allowing him to answer questions the way the other panelists were. If ever the BNP got a shot in the arm it was definately tonight.

Dimbelby regularly plays devils advocate and challenges, pushes, prods the pannel and regularly gives them a hard time. That's dead normal for question time. Griffin had a lot to answer for, and Dimelby made sure those questions were asked.

Never seem him like he was tonight thought it was ridiculous, there was so muich more he could have extracted from Griffin if he hadnt been so bullish. Andrew Neil kinda agreed with me on that.

ddraver

I agree with Moray - I think Griffin did pretty well all things considering. Jack Straw answering the immigration question was just laughable and is one of the reasons people get so dissolousioned (sp?) with the major political parties!

The Conservative girl (who was very pretty too :oops: ) and Chris Hume (was it?) were much better. But they really did nt help them selves. Bonnie was fantastic too!

Dimbledore needs to learn to say Llandudno properly though .......

teagar

Moray Gub wrote:

teagar wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

Anyway, it was an interesting debate. Dimbleby held it together better than I thought he would.

Griffin didn't score any points whatsoever as far as I could tell. He was rattled right from the gun when Dimbleby pwned him over the "misquotes" that were attributed to him. The holocaust denial stuff obviously made him look like a complete tit.

The most interesting bit was Straw, Warsi and Huhne scrambling over themselves to prove how tough on immigration they are.

I reckon I spotted two BNP plants in the audience. Fat bloke in white shirt rambling on about the EU, and a bloke who looked like he hadn't a wash in 3 months rambling incoherently about... well, something, I don't know what.

I thought Dimbleby was appalling tonight as chair of QT he is supposed to be impartial much as i disagree with most if not all of what Griffin says Dimbleby was clearly hell bent on putting it to him. As for the audience i dont think the BBC could have picked a better bunch of plants to have a go at Griffin all night. The whole show just came across as the whole panel and a lot of the audience basically ganging up on one man and not allowing him to answer questions the way the other panelists were. If ever the BNP got a shot in the arm it was definately tonight.

Dimbelby regularly plays devils advocate and challenges, pushes, prods the pannel and regularly gives them a hard time. That's dead normal for question time. Griffin had a lot to answer for, and Dimelby made sure those questions were asked.

Never seem him like he was tonight though it was ridiculous.

*shrugs*. I must disagree.

afx237vi

teagar wrote:

I thought he'd do better than that. I guess I gave him too much credit. He looked uncomfortable, couldn't get into his stride and couldn't roll out his flat-out denials.

The only concern (mentioned on the week, afterwards), was that he may pick up some sympathy after watching the entire pannel and audience against him and picking on him.

I'm surprised he got as much as a 2.2 in his history degree given his marshalling of 'facts' relating to the Holocaust.


Edit: Moray's post above ^- an example of my concern!

Any sympathy he gains may well be cancelled out by the disappointed bigots who will wonder why he didn't say the stuff he says at BNP rallies and behind closed doors. He told that one British Asian guy he had no problem with him staying in Britain, and said he that homosexuals could do whatever they wanted in the privacy of their own home.

Most of his answers were pretty mealy-mouthed compared to what the BNP really stands for.

afx237vi

ddraver wrote:

I agree with Moray - I think Griffin did pretty well all things considering. Jack Straw answering the immigration question was just laughable and is one of the reasons people get so dissolousioned (sp?) with the major political parties!

The Conservative girl (who was very pretty too :oops: ) and Chris Hume (was it?) were much better. But they really did nt help them selves. Bonnie was fantastic too!

Dimbledore needs to learn to say Llandudno properly though .......

<shallow>

Sayeeda Warsi is a fox!

</shallow>

alfablue

Sayeeda Warsi is trying to do a Nick Griffin, attempting as shadow community cohesion minister, to pull the wool over the electorates eyes and trying to fool people that the Tories are now tolerant and inclusive. Under the skin she appears to have homophobic tendencies, and has even stated in an Independent interview that the BNP may have a point and have some very legitimate views. The Tories policy on an immigration cap at the same time as claiming not to be shutting the door is a complete contradiction.

cjw

teagar wrote:

I
I'm surprised he got as much as a 2.2 in his history degree given his marshalling of 'facts' relating to the Holocaust.

!

Not just Holocaust but who on earth are indiginous Biritish. Does he mean the Angles and Saxons (who emmigrated from Germany), the left over Romans (from just about everywhere), the Vikings, the Normans. Maybe he's thinking further back to the Celts - beleived to have migrated here from Austria / Hungary.