Nick Griffin on question time

Chip \'oyler

I've just taken a quick look at their very slick looking professional website (yeah right).

What does he constitute as 'being British'?

Does he mean white people? If it does, what will he do about the polish/lithuanian immigrants for instance? and What about people born to white American/European parents?

If he means Anglo Saxons - can he trace his family tree and categorically say he's pure Anglo Saxon. And if he does want Britain for the British, and he can claim to be Anglo Saxon, then he should throw himself out because they were immigrants in the first place!

England had been 'one big melting' pot for a very long time, and some of the immigrants we've 'suffered' such as the Vikings, Romans, Anglo Saxons and Normans helped to make England what it is today.

The bloke's a right tit.

teagar

I don't think he'll come out too badly.


Not particularly hot on the BNP, but they tend to say one thing when on national TV, which as far as I can tell are out and out false, and another at the local rallies, speeches etc.

After all, if someone calls him on some racist agenda, he can (as long as it's not too well known, which BNP workings hardly are, given the lack of press coverage untill very recently), he can just flat out deny it. After all, free speech and all that.

Griffin's aim will just be to come out looking legitimate. If he does that, it'll be a big success for him and his party.

It'd be interesting to see how much he can/does hold back from mud-slinging.

berliner

Maybe the best thing to happen with UK politics for years. It's been boring boring boring for years with no clear difference between the main 3.
Years ago we'd watch all the conferences where Labour were Labour , Tory- Tory and the TUC's do was great.
Griffin will hit a lot of sensitive buttons- the UK's predicted population explotion, the EU's overbearing power, greedy bankers, greedy politians etc etc The others may just argue by saying "You're racist, you're racist , you're racist "etc etc
The BBC's recent Panorama recent documentary showing the extent of racism in the UK may be mentioned only to be countered by "Lets see part 2 with white people living in a tough Asian estate"
It's all predictable stuff - highly charged - wonderful TV. The stiffleing of the BNP has become counter productive the BNP achieved 1million voters.
Lets watch - lets get political !!!!!!!


PS I'm no way BNP just an Agent Provocateur

afx237vi

teagar wrote:

I don't think he'll come out too badly.


Not particularly hot on the BNP, but they tend to say one thing when on national TV, which as far as I can tell are out and out false, and another at the local rallies, speeches etc.

After all, if someone calls him on some racist agenda, he can (as long as it's not too well known, which BNP workings hardly are, given the lack of press coverage untill very recently), he can just flat out deny it. After all, free speech and all that.

Griffin's aim will just be to come out looking legitimate. If he does that, it'll be a big success for him and his party.

It'd be interesting to see how much he can/does hold back from mud-slinging.

I agree that his main objective will be to not say anything overtly racist or inflammatory, but can you really see that happening? What happens when Baroness Warsi asks him "am I British", which she almost certainly will. That question is impossible for him to answer without being racist.

pedylan

berliner wrote:

PS I'm no way BNP just an Agent Provocateur

Yeah, I was thinking of voting AP as well but I can't help wishing the Don't Knows get in this time.

teagar

afx237vi wrote:

teagar wrote:

I don't think he'll come out too badly.


Not particularly hot on the BNP, but they tend to say one thing when on national TV, which as far as I can tell are out and out false, and another at the local rallies, speeches etc.

After all, if someone calls him on some racist agenda, he can (as long as it's not too well known, which BNP workings hardly are, given the lack of press coverage untill very recently), he can just flat out deny it. After all, free speech and all that.

Griffin's aim will just be to come out looking legitimate. If he does that, it'll be a big success for him and his party.

It'd be interesting to see how much he can/does hold back from mud-slinging.

I agree that his main objective will be to not say anything overtly racist or inflammatory, but can you really see that happening? What happens when Baroness Warsi asks him "am I British", which she almost certainly will. That question is impossible for him to answer without being racist.

He is a professional politician. He didn't get a racist party on a national televised (state paid!) debate by answering those questions remotely straight.

afx237vi

teagar wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

I agree that his main objective will be to not say anything overtly racist or inflammatory, but can you really see that happening? What happens when Baroness Warsi asks him "am I British", which she almost certainly will. That question is impossible for him to answer without being racist.

He is a professional politician. He didn't get a racist party on a national televised (state paid!) debate by answering those questions remotely straight.

It's a conundrum, that's for sure. You're the leader of (racist) political party, wanting to attract new (racist) voters, yet you're afraid of appearing to endorse your own (racist) objectives for fear of being labeled a racist.

It'll be interesting to see how Dimbleby controls the audience, too. QT can be raucous even during a normal episode. Tomorrow could just turn into a shoutfest.

Crapaud

softlad wrote:

MattC59 wrote:

Actually, until they have changed their illegal membership rules, they are technically not allowed to represent anyone as a political party.

and yet strangely, they have had those rules since their inception and nobody has thought to mention it until now....?? ...

Not so strange when you consider it's politics! You only expose your enemy's errors when there's something to gain.

I think that this is only the tip of the iceberg. I expect that there'll be a few undercover exposes of their 'youth camps' among other things.

finchy

berliner wrote:

"Lets see part 2 with white people living in a tough Asian estate"

I think the difference would be that any attacks like the Panorama programme would not be an everyday occurrence. I lived in an area with a very high ethnic minority (mainly Indians and Pakistanis) when I was a boy, and never witnessed or heard of any Asian on white violence at all. When I go back there I don't get the feeling that's changed.

Le Commentateur

It's a conundrum, that's for sure. You're the leader of (racist) political party, wanting to attract new (racist) voters, yet you're afraid of appearing to endorse your own (racist) objectives for fear of being labeled a racist.

Actually I bet he tries to appear a model of calm debate, perhaps hoping that his fellow panelists will lose it, thus making him seem even more "normal".

Like UKIP, his party craves the oxygen of publicity in order to attract disaffected voters who can't see the point of voting for the mainstream parties any more, since there no longer seems any real difference between them.

geoff_ss

On balance I think it's right Griffin should appear on the programme. I've never seen it because we haven't had a TV for over 40 years but I assume it's the TV version of 'Any Questions'. I loathe most of what he stands for (he, like me is against the Iraq and Afghan wars AFAIK) but exposure is the only way to expose fully the racism of his party.

The funny thing is that when the BNP used a Spitfire in their publicity it was one with the insignia of a WW2 Polish squadron. It does annoy me that they use WW2 in their claims to be British when the war was fought to rid the world of a racist fascist regime which is what they represent.

I live on the Derbyshire/Nottinghamshire border only 3 or 4 miles from where the BNP holds it Summer camp. For some strange reason its a hot bed of far right, racist politics yet it's rare to see anything other than white faces in the immediate area. Never had one of their thugs knocking on the door yet unfortunately.

Geoff

afx237vi

Like UKIP, his party craves the oxygen of publicity in order to attract disaffected voters who can't see the point of voting for the mainstream parties any more, since there no longer seems any real difference between them.

Interesting that you mention UKIP. I didn't see last week's episode, but apparently one of the guests was Nigel Farage. It wasn't so long ago that UKIP were being branded a racist party on the same level as the BNP... now they're getting an invite on Question Time and no-one bats an eyelid.

Granted, UKIP aren't extreme as BNP, but maybe one side-effect of inviting Griffin on QT will be that the party becomes less demonized, and therefore less relevant. They'll be like the Greens, or the Respect Party... noticeable, but unimportant.

pedylan

This photo was taken from their website.

Their platform of discrimination, racism, opposition to multiculturalism, religious bigotry, perceived sense of injustice and simple minded hatred apparently doesn't leave any scope to recognise irony.

"Black Country" is i would have thought a waking nightmare for this ugly little party's ugly little members and voters.

Anonymous

pedylan wrote:

This photo was taken from their website.

Their platform of discrimination, racism, opposition to multiculturalism, religious bigotry, perceived sense of injustice and simple minded hatred apparently doesn't leave any scope to recognise irony.

"Black Country" is i would have thought a waking nightmare for this ugly little party's ugly little members and voters.

At least the bloke on the far right has a sense of humour. Dunno about the ex-bouncer though.

"Far right", geddit? sorry.

What a bunch of tossers, you wouldn't let them mow your lawn, let alone get any real power. Brummie Nazis, what next ?

tebbit

Does anybody remember the BNP Party Political Broadcast, it focused on a down and out former army corporal Chalky White, and the fact that he was on the streets couldn't get a job and it was all the fault of imigrants. It was obvious the fact this bloke couldn't get a job was that he was an alcholic, if this was the best they can do the Question Time appearance should be a complete debacle.

Crapaud

tebbit wrote:

Does anybody remember the BNP Party Political Broadcast, it focused on a down and out former army corporal Chalky White, and the fact that he was on the streets couldn't get a job and it was all the fault of imigrants. It was obvious the fact this bloke couldn't get a job was that he was an alcholic, if this was the best they can do the Question Time appearance should be a complete debacle.

Chalky White??? Chalky? White? Surely that's a made-up name. It sounds like a character from one of their childrens indoctrination books or cartoons.

freehub

I thought Nick Griffin is from Family Guy.

all show no go

MattC59 wrote:

softlad wrote:

whether you like them or not, the BNP is a legitimate political organisation according to the current rules governing political parties. In that sense, Mr Griffin has every right to appear on the programme...

Actually, until they have changed their illegal membership rules, they are technically not allowed to represent anyone as a political party.

Ah yes, the good ol' non-whites are not allowed membership rule (fact).

markwalker

Pre formed prejudice all over the place, i suspect many people with these prejudices have never looked very far to find out what the policys of this party are.

Some facts.
The website is amateur badly produced and full of errors.
Some of the arguments and positions are contradictory.
There is policy based on nationality.

However there are many reasonable ideas, sadly Mr Griffin doesnt appear to have the ability to marshall his troops or arguments .and will almsot certainley look a right tit tonight.

But is it wrong to believe that there has been too much immigration?
Is it wrong to be alarmed at the amount of money the NHS is spending on non UK/European mothers pregnancy at a time of pressure on the public purse.
Is it wrong to fear that your way of life is being brushed aside?
Is it wrong to worry what kind of country your children will grow up in?

At least they have the stomach to say what many peope think and bringing these thoughts to a debate gives the opportunity for reaoned review rather than PCliberal outrage that anyone could be quite so vile as to acknowledge that which must not be acknowledged. Again I expect tonight will see Mr Griffin torn apart by Jack Straw, after all its hardly a fair contest which is a shame. Rather like rowing boat versus the bismark.

Cressers

Or maybe Mr griffin will rip apart Mr man of Straw?

either way i have the right to hear both out, and draw my own conclusions rather that have what I view decided by a vocal minority. Freedom of speech applies to the people that you disagree with.

markwalker

Cressers wrote:

Or maybe Mr griffin will rip apart Mr man of Straw?

either way i have the right to hear both out, and draw my own conclusions rather that have what I view decided by a vocal minority. Freedom of speech applies to the people that you disagree with.

Quite so. A pity that most people seem unable to come to their own conclusions.

DavidBelcher

tebbit wrote:

Does anybody remember the BNP Party Political Broadcast, it focused on a down and out former army corporal Chalky White, and the fact that he was on the streets couldn't get a job and it was all the fault of imigrants. It was obvious the fact this bloke couldn't get a job was that he was an alcholic, if this was the best they can do the Question Time appearance should be a complete debacle.

Sounds like the premise for one of Mitchell & Webb's The Surprising Adventures of Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar sketches! Were there repeated references to an un-named nemesis, "some b*****d who is presumably responsible", by any chance?

David

DavidBelcher

pneumatic wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

Who else is on the panel tomorrow?

Sauron, Freddie Kruger and the Queen out of Snow White

Typical. Panto season's not far off; it's clear they're only appearing by way of a shameless plug....

David

simonaspinall

GO BONNIE!!!!!

northernneil

one thing is for certain - it will be the most watched question time, possibly ever

DavidBelcher

afx237vi wrote:

[ It wasn't so long ago that UKIP were being branded a racist party on the same level as the BNP.

Must admit, I never perceived them as such, more of a bunch of disillusioned Tories with a huge anti-Brussels chip on their shoulder. Although like the BNP they do seem quite a one-issue party.

David

softlad

northernneil wrote:

one thing is for certain - it will be the most watched question time, possibly ever

true - normally, Dimblebore winds me up so much by interrupting everyone that I have to switch off, but I will try and resist tonight...

mfin

True political debate aside for a second... a sad fact is that there are millions of voters out there who do no more thinking than to be able to pick an issue like 'jobs being lost' and mentally link that straight away to Immigration. That's enough for them, cos they can feel passionate about that whether its wrong or right and feel they have a politcal stance. Huge amounts of BNP voters would be like this, just as 'unconsidered' as the huge amounts of people voted for Tony Blair cos of his 'kind face'.

The same people DON'T watch Question Time cos they wouldn't 'get it'.

I better way to crush the BNP?... all any other party would have to do is offer a free KFC voucher with every vote, these people would probably shift their voting sharpish.

finchy

markwalker wrote:

But is it wrong to believe that there has been too much immigration?
Is it wrong to be alarmed at the amount of money the NHS is spending on non UK/European mothers pregnancy at a time of pressure on the public purse.
Is it wrong to fear that your way of life is being brushed aside?
Is it wrong to worry what kind of country your children will grow up in?

In all honesty I don't want to see such large-scale immigration. Not because I have anything against immigrants (my girlfriend's one), but because I'd prefer our population to go down rather than up. Also, I think that the government will completely mishandle the issue, and we'll end up with even more tensions than now.

However, I'm realistic enough to see that we have a rapidly ageing population, somebody's going to need to do the work to pay pensions. And when employment perks up again in the UK, who's going to pick our food? Who's going to do the work which our native population isn't qualified to do?

Also, the number of immigrants has fallen massively - refugee flow into this country has been falling since 2001, and is now only a quarter of what it was back then, and the Eastern Europeans are going home because of the weak pound. I know a fair few immigrant workers, and having been lead to believe that the streets of the UK are paved with gold, many of them now see that this country = exploitation for foreigners, and are looking to go back home at the first opportunity.

northernneil

softlad wrote:

northernneil wrote:

one thing is for certain - it will be the most watched question time, possibly ever

true - normally, Dimblebore winds me up so much by interrupting everyone that I have to switch off, but I will try and resist tonight...

and you know the bnp will advertise that fact and try to spin it to thier favour, one good thing is the demographic of the average BNP voter doesnt watch BBC2 let alone Newsnight