Swinley Forest / The Lookout
Comments
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Yeah i agree that we should have to go and find these routes for ourselfs , thats half the fun of MTBing to me ! but a good idea that the Lookout do supply a basic map of the boundary for us all , and also the people that are to selfish or disrespectfull to the MTBing comunity to pay £2 for a days riding should be found out and shamed and banned from riding there for say 3 months its just slowing down the guys that upkeep the trails !0
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Ive bought 2 annual permits at £18 each for swinley and would feel a bit robbed if I couldnt find the best bits. Not to mention paying for a few day passes beforehand.
Billysan, PM me some detials on the tank traps if you dont mind, that will stop locations from being made public.
Barnesr, I would happily contribute to the building of the trails but as some have already said, I dont know if Im even riding these trails. I go over swinley on average twice a week and get more and more frustrated by not being able to find the good bits. As for wearing the trails away, the weather contributes to this a lot more than I ever will!0 -
£36 barely gets you pissed on a night out, but that gave you 2 years worth of access to this place, and the enjoyment that comes with it!!
Sounds like rather good value if you ask me!
You've obviously been going there quite a lot, do you just ride round in circles on the fire roads?0 -
It is good value, that I cannot deny. 1 years access - the second pass is for my wife who barely ever goes.
I have a plus / minus 20km route that I follow that takes me through the best bits Ive found so far including passing the gully jumps, the stickler (well I think its the stickler), the alpine section and labyrinth area. Coming back from the labyrinth theres the bit with a couple of wooden bridges and then the fast steep hill with the drop off at the top - the way up the other side has a cool jump. Then generally I make my way back via the gulley jumps. Takes me a couple of hours and theres not much of it thats boring.
I would just like to see the other bits Im missing, whats wrong with that?
Dont worry when I do find all the bits Ill be sure to post up a detailed map
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billysan wrote:
As for joining BOB, I would have already, had I not had to wait to get on one of their 'induction' rides first. Im booked on the one on the 19th though, abeit feeling a little insulted that I must be 'vetted' prior to being able to join.
Sorry to hear that you feel insulted at being given a free tour of the best that Swinley has to offer!! The introductory rides give people the chance to see what the club is about before deciding whether to join, and give the club the opportunity to give advice as to what level of club ride people should be aiming for.~~~~~~Sustrans - Join the Movement~~~~~~0 -
barnesr wrote:billysan wrote:
As for joining BOB, I would have already, had I not had to wait to get on one of their 'induction' rides first. Im booked on the one on the 19th though, abeit feeling a little insulted that I must be 'vetted' prior to being able to join.
Sorry to hear that you feel insulted at being given a free tour of the best that Swinley has to offer!! The introductory rides give people the chance to see what the club is about before deciding whether to join, and give the club the opportunity to give advice as to what level of club ride people should be aiming for.
I may have got the wrong end of the stick then. A free tour would be good, and it would be good to meet the rest of the club. The way I read it though was that I was being assessed at the same time to see if I was welcome to join the club or not. Every other cycling club Ive ever been a member of I was just able to join without feeling like I have to prove myself.
No offense meant to anyone involved with the club.0 -
Going tomorrow morning, early at about 7:30 for an hour. Going to try and find some of these elusive trails!0
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Some extremely helpfull chaps on another forum have given me a detailed map of where everything is
Going to have loads of fun tomorrow!!!0 -
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It's true that finding the routes yourself is half the fun. That's why Swinley is so good as I've been riding it for nearly a couple of years and still I keep finding things.
However, it's a bit snobbish to say you can't publish a map and the routes should only be to those in the know. I understand not wanting the masses to churn up the place, but the masses just turn up to the Look Out and wonder around the firetracks with just the basic map anyway taking their kids for a cycle ride. Few venture deeper into the forest anyway. Some of the teens do but they just hang out in the gulley (or likewise on the jump sections by the labyrinth).
Swinley's not really suffered too much I find from people churning up the place. Or maybe the maintenance is just good enough.
The permit thing does need some enforcement though. I've never seen anyone check or enforce it. A shame as the work done needs funding and reward.
As for bike clubs. I've never joined one yet, but yeah some sites I look at do have a sense of "are you good enough to ride with us". Maybe they don't really mean that, but it's a little off putting. Though they tend to be expensive clubs anyway.
Personally at this stage I'm just after informal rides with a group of people who just enjoy being out on their bikes. I'm not into some fitness contest or competition riding. Just riding for a bit of fun.
Anyway. So back to the state of Swinley. Seagull is this one?
Down on the bottom left of the estate, starting at one end with small tank traps and winds around, up and down, then across a fire road, up into another section, winding around and finally drops out at the edge of the estate (or somewhere near Caesar's camp I think).0 -
deadkenny wrote:Swinley's not really suffered too much I find from people churning up the place. Or maybe the maintenance is just good enough.
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The photo is indeed the seagull run, a couple of years ago it had definitely suffered from being churned up, so BOB and Gorrick spent a lot of time and money to repair it and bring it up to the standard seen.
Now, it would be nice if people joined the club and helped out, but if they just want to ride informally then thats fine, they can ride the trails built and financed by other people, but its a bit too much to expect to be given a map as well!!~~~~~~Sustrans - Join the Movement~~~~~~0 -
But the point is, isn't the Gorrick permit supposed to cover the trail build?barnesr wrote:Now, it would be nice if people joined the club and helped out, but if they just want to ride informally then thats fine, they can ride the trails built and financed by other people, but its a bit too much to expect to be given a map as well!!
To quote from http://www.gorrick.com/swinley/permits.php
"Any surplus funds are ploughed back into maintaining the excellent singletrack."
In fact there's no mention of BOB's involvement but Gorrick goes on to mention their own maintenance.
BOB's membership page also does not mention that membership helps maintain the tracks, and if Gorrick do their own tracks, why should I also join BOB if I don't know who's maintaining which tracks?
Nothing is very clear about Swinley (even down to directions on the singletrack, or rather lack of).
As for maps, I see nothing wrong with cyclists producing and publishing their own maps.0 -
Well I had a good few hours of fun today thanks to knowing where just about everything is.
The seagull is one I'd done before but just didnt know what it was.
Tanktraps, a new one to me and quite nice when you link it up with the stickler.
Corkscrew - a big let down, the single track from pudding hill to crowthorne wood is more entertaining
Bombholes - again quite boring but OK for a bit of a mess around
Had done the alpine area with steep hills and frightening jumps before as well as jump gulley (and nearby downhill slaloms) and the labyrinth - nice but old hat.
I didnt realise the babymaker was the names of one of the trails leading into the labyrinth so had done that too.
Still managed to find some stuff that people havent mentioned (or I havent put names to places). Whats the name of the steep pebbly decline with a small drop off at the top that immediately goes into a smooth incline with a jump half way up the incline? Its at the bottom of the alpine section and about 400 meters in a north westerly direction (Surrey Hill area).
Linking just about all of this up with the miles of singletrack will take you all day - awesome!0 -
I'll be there as uaual after work this afternoon. Mate and I usually get there every Tues/Thurs for a couple of hours.Adam.
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Current ride - Yeti ASR 5a X00 -
I'd like to add a few points to some of the arguments taking place on here:
Firstly, when BoB got involved with looking after the trails many years ago, the Crown Estate only gave permission for a very small number of trails to be built (in the region of just four). Over the years, many more trails were created. Some of these were by BoB, others by keen trail pixies and others just happened more by luck than judgment. The reason maps were not printed was that the trail network was pretty sprawling and a lot bigger than was originally intended by the Crown Estate, so it was best to keep it a bit of a secret and not print anything that showed where all the trails were located. This was less of an issue in the 'extreme mountain bike area' on Surrey Hill.
Recently the relationship between Gorrick/BoB and the Crown Estate has improved, and the Stickler run was viewed as a good piece of trail building by the Swinley Estate Manager, although he feels that it's still probably too tricky for general use in the forest and should have been out near Surrey Hill somewehre.
Originally, BoB ran the permit scheme for the forest, but as a small club they could not afford the insurance policy to provide third party cover for all riders using the permit system. One of the BoB's had a separate business which allowed his insurance to cover this kind of activity and so Gorrick took over the ownership of the permit system, although it is actually managed and administered by BoB volunteers. You cannot join 'Gorrick' as it's not a club but does of course host the fantastic race events around the area, and the guys associated with it do a lot to build good quality MTB trails. BoB and Gorrick are very strongly linked, the permit scheme is insured through Gorrick/MBSA and BoB manage the applications and provide all of the labour for trail building and maintenance. The permit 'funds' from Gorrick are used to hire diggers, dump trucks etc to quarry the material and get it to the trails, where the BoB volunteers shape it and ensure we have trails to ride.
As for joining BoB, I actually agree it's a bit of a faff and more difficult than it should be. In particular, it does make it sound like you're being vetted. However, this isn't really the case and once you do join, the club is very friendly and welcoming and incredibly supportive of new or experienced riders. The 'Intro Rides' are there to ensure people are fit enough and have basic skills to ride singletrack. Don't forget, many people ride Swinley Forest and stick to the fire-roads, and then think they are MTB'ers. The Intro Ride is there to guide people around some of the singletrack that the forest has to offer, and get active members into the club and into the correct rides. It would be no good having people turn up for an organised ride and holding the entire group up. I personally thought I could ride okay when I went on my intro ride, but I was only mid-level amongst that group and was certainly lagging behind many of the club riders in fitness and skill levels on the BoB rides. BoB now run a 'leisure ride' on Sundays whichis aimed at slower and less confident riders, or families wanting to get out together, however it's still not a fire-road cruise.
Maps - personally I know of a number of website forums with maps available to download which mark some of the key trails. They're not official, and this is probably the best thing for now. As the relationship between Gorrick/BoB and the Crown Estate grows, and the demand for such a fantastic resource continues then it is likely there will be more marked trails for families/gentle riders, and then some for the more experienced MTB'er. These things take time, but Gorrick do have plans to build more trails in the forest and perhaps it will become more of a 'trail centre'. That's when you have other commercial pressures and will need employees to manage everything rather than being just done by volunteers.
Permits - There really needs to be an improvement in the permit checking in my opinion, and the ease of purchasing one. Perhaps we need a ticket dispensing maching at the Look Out for when the centre is closed. More signs on key entrances should tell people about the permits, where to get them and what it actually goes towards. Policing of these things is difficult, but the more people purchase them, the more they will insist their friends buy them as well and then more money comes into the system so trails can be built and signposted accordingly.
Anyway, I've gone on for far too long, but I hope that helps clarify a few points.
Please be supportive of the permit system, get involved with BoB if you can/want to, and let people know how everything is looked after.
The straighter the line, the faster I go!0 -
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billysan wrote:Good Post ^
+1
Especially agree about enforcing the permit system and publicising where the money goes.0 -
Many thanks. As said, good post and that explains a lot
As for maps again, yeah I don't see the need to have official maps. People on forums etc doing their own, fine.
That said, I don't think we need comprehensive maps. Really you just need the main well known ones (Tank Traps, Whole Nine Yards, Stickler, Seagulls and rough idea of where the gully and the labyrinth etc are). From doing those you'll find all kinds here and there. Basic maps covering these however should not be limited to any kind of membership (e.g.BoB). Fine on a forum or on things like OpenCycleMap (which has some of them already), and leave them off the official Swinley map the families use.
It's funny actually that whenever I'm around trees I'm always looking off to the sides for potential tracks these days. Even if I'm in the car! (not to drive down them, but to note for future reference).:D
Oh on a separate point. Anyway we can stop dog walkers going on the singletrack? !!0 -
My 1st time at Swinley this morning , really enjoyed what i could get around . found some Singletrack some nice trails here and there also found Sandy Cutting or i guess most may call this the gully ! infact i stayed here for most of my time there once i had found it , not bad i guess pushing 39 and still loving jumps , time does fly by though a quick look at my watch and found i'd been there for 3 hours . i mat take another jaunt over there fri afternoon/sat morning .0
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Hopefully up there on sat afternoon,for a blast round.
Anyway the thing i think is strange,is why the lookout doesn`t charge for parking?
Wendover woods does,black park langle/iver does(take me kids there co`s its woody an flat),i mean £2 quid isnt going too break the bank is it?
The cash raised would help the council keep the place,up to scratch not meaning the trails,but the car parks and lookout surley are paid for through the council tax?
A lot of people go through that place every weekend go ape etc,praps thet then could get some proper signage warning joggers,walkers,doggers and people with dogs,that they should be aware of the bike trails, and the danger they can put themselves in.Told ya itll hurt!0 -
Hope to be over there sat or sunday myself.
Does seem strange about the car park being free as most places charge these days. But then I'd bet it would be contracted out and prices would rack up as the company running it will take a big slice themselves. Then we'd start getting marked bays and fines and/or clamping for parking a mm over the line and it would prevent people using up all available space there, making parking a nightmare.0 -
It seems they are one of the last few places to keep an element of common sense to their operations!!
Long may it last.0 -
Yeah its good that the parking is free but geez the car park can be packed sometimes.
Ill be there at 7am tomorrow 0 -
You could park somewhere just off the A30, which is closer to the "expert" areas anyway. Though have to go over the MOD land I think. I've not gone on the MOD land there. I can usually hear motorbikes over there (when they don't venture into Swinley itself which they do on occasion :x ).0
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I could mention the oodles of free parking available to BOB members, but then you'd all want a map showing where it is ~~~~~~Sustrans - Join the Movement~~~~~~0
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Lookout is awesome and I really do miss riding it, its got something for everyone regardless of ride style or skill level. Would be awesome to get some north shore style trails up in there, its got the hills for some nice (but short) runs I think.0
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Technically The Lookout is just the visitor centre in the small corner of the forest
Most the families don't venture much further than there (thankfully) 0 -
I've seen the weirdest stuff out there in those woods.....0
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like what?0
