LANCE vs AC its all goin on

calvjones

Who has AC burned bridges with? He dropped Klodi then apologized; contrast that with JB and LAs treatment of uppity domestiques (Landis when he TTd a little fast for example).

Machiavelli said it was better to be feared than loved and I suspect that's why (amongst other reasons) LA had such a great team.

I know who my money would be on in an anonymous peloton popularity vote.

bipedal

I don't get the fuss...

AC is allowed not to like LA, and allowed to say as much
AC also has a "bunch of guys" it's just few of them were allowed to go to the tour by JB/Astana... I honestly don't think Contador will be lacking palls in the peloton or offers from decent teams with canny managers perfectly capable of winning races

flattythehurdler

Valverde, at least, owes him big style after the daupine. (I doubt he is on Cadel's christmas card list though).
Contador is a big boy, and walks the walk, as he showed. Respect. I don't place much credence in the team car story. Lance was a little indiscrete. Now i am no fan of LA, but he rides to win, and imo his obvious disappointment gives bertie's win even more stardust, and is far more acceptable than Lance making out how he was only cycling for bertie throughout , and that it was all part of some grand JB plan etc etc.

slojo

there is no "i" in "team".

There is in Spanish

redddraggon

frenchfighter wrote:

Contador is a complete rider.

Maybe if he won Paris - Roubiax he would be

bipedal

No GT riders bother with P-R these days though... haven't done since Hinault

andyp

bipedal wrote:

No GT riders bother with P-R these days though... haven't done since Hinault

Lemond? Fignon? Kelly?

frenchfighter

redddraggon wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Contador is a complete rider.

Maybe if he won Paris - Roubiax he would be

He is only 26 and has said that he would like to take part in a Classic. I would imagine Ardennes and/or San Sebastian. As for Paris-Roubaix, I don't think any GC rider would win that and wouldn't expect it of them either.

As bipedal says, Paris Roubaix hasn't been won by a GC rider since Hinault in 1981.

I guess you can also take 'complete' in terms of skills: TT, rouleur, descending, climbing, attacking, defending, etc - he has them all.

bipedal

andyp wrote:

bipedal wrote:

No GT riders bother with P-R these days though... haven't done since Hinault

Lemond? Fignon? Kelly?

OK since the 80s then... my point is that for over a decade no 3 week GT contender bothers trying to win P-R, it's become a race for specialists

frenchfighter

thamacdaddy wrote:

Not sure AC is actually as angellic as that. He did his fair share of looking after himself.

Please elaborate, as I must have missed this.

thamacdaddy wrote:

not leave them for dead on mountains to be able to get himself in the same position.

Do you win a GT by not attacking? That would be a novel idea.

And seperately on the Kloden incident, Contador attacked and as usual no one could follow his wheel. He looked behind, saw that Kloden was in trouble, then stopped. That is a quality rider as he could have ridden on and got himself more time. He also let Frank win when he may well have been able to take it himself.

Also, re-watch the Ventoux ascent. Contador's riding directly and indirectly helps Lance.

thamacdaddy wrote:

AC looks a more natural talent.

Interesting anecdote. When he was 15, he was in a race where he left the finest racers for dead. At the time he was on a ludicrously heavy iron bike.

thamacdaddy wrote:

you can't go around burning bridges with guys in the peloton and think you can take it all on your own forever

Do you think he would have prefered a team that worked exclusively for him as should be the norm? I do.

thamacdaddy wrote:

Surely the wise move would be to put the sock in it and get on with it

Again maybe we were watching a different Tour. Contador didn't say anything for three weeks or in all the months leading up to the Tour. He got on with it too; he won in style. Or maybe you are referring to Lance here.

deejay

bipedal wrote:

No GT riders bother with P-R these days though... haven't done since Hinault

Any Monument will do ??

:twisted: Armstrong :twisted: has never won a monument = ZERO = 00 ??? but

Merckx.....won 19
Coppi,,,,,,,......... 9
Kelly...................9
Bartali................7
Binda.................6
Hinault...............5
Bobet.................4
Gimondi ...........4

Bloody good riders those.
The mention of Binda reminds me that he was "Paid" to "Not Start the Giro" in order to save the repitition of him winning all the time. (and he is still an All Time Great)

drenkrom

People using the Klöden attack to showcase Contador's lack of team spirit make me fall over with laughter. Klöden never took a pedal stroke in front of Contador on that complete stage. Without the yellow jersey on Contador's back, you'd have been forgiven for thinking the places on GC were the other way around.

And when Armstrong uses that incident, I just scream. Who passed by Klöden later in that exact same stage without the slightest attempt at waiting for him? LA!!!

What a way of wasting what was, in perspective, a fantastic ride for Armstrong. He goes from being a tough 38-year-old who rode to third in the biggest race of the year, to being a bitter washout of his former self. Even coverage in a lot of North American mainstream media has turned against him, something I never thought I'd see.

frenchfighter

Good points drenkom. To have at Contador for the 'Kloden' incident is ridiculous.

Peakraider

frenchfighter wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Contador is a complete rider.

Maybe if he won Paris - Roubiax he would be

He is only 26 and has said that he would like to take part in a Classic. I would imagine Ardennes and/or San Sebastian. As for Paris-Roubaix, I don't think any GC rider would win that and wouldn't expect it of them either.

As bipedal says, Paris Roubaix hasn't been won by a GC rider since Hinault in 1981.

I guess you can also take 'complete' in terms of skills: TT, rouleur, descending, climbing, attacking, defending, etc - he has them all.

And excellent doctors, by many accounts.

paulcuthbert

SunWuKong wrote:

All this because his daddy didn't love him.

That's not on. Horrible thing to say

jamlala

frenchfighter wrote:

Pokerface, you need some FACTS shown to you.

Contador is 26.

He was won the Tour de France twice.

He has won the Giro.

He has won the Vuelta.

Only four other people can claim to have won at least one of the three GTs: Merckx, Hinault, Anquetil and Gimondi. Only four and he is only 26.

Now he has also won the following stage races:
Vuelta a Castilla y León Twice
Paris Nice
Setmana Catalana
Vuelta a País Vasco Twice
Volta ao Algarve

He also has high placings in many others.

He also has many stage wins to his name.

He was also U-23 Spanish TT Champion.

He is the current Spanish TT Champion.

He is a formidable rider and he is only 26.

I would like to see him compete in Clásica de San Sebastián this year and the Ardennes next year. Being the best rouleur of the climbers and the best climber I am pretty ssure he could add these to his palmares.

Now if you care to look at Lance's palmares, you will start to understand how much greater Contador is in comparison to Lance. He is 12 years older than Contador and has won seven Tours, no Giros, no Vueltas and only two or three other small stage races.

Get a room.

thomasmc

JamLala wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Pokerface, you need some FACTS shown to you.

Contador is 26.

He was won the Tour de France twice.

He has won the Giro.

He has won the Vuelta.

Only four other people can claim to have won at least one of the three GTs: Merckx, Hinault, Anquetil and Gimondi. Only four and he is only 26.

Now he has also won the following stage races:
Vuelta a Castilla y León Twice
Paris Nice
Setmana Catalana
Vuelta a País Vasco Twice
Volta ao Algarve

He also has high placings in many others.

He also has many stage wins to his name.

He was also U-23 Spanish TT Champion.

He is the current Spanish TT Champion.

He is a formidable rider and he is only 26.

I would like to see him compete in Clásica de San Sebastián this year and the Ardennes next year. Being the best rouleur of the climbers and the best climber I am pretty ssure he could add these to his palmares.

Now if you care to look at Lance's palmares, you will start to understand how much greater Contador is in comparison to Lance. He is 12 years older than Contador and has won seven Tours, no Giros, no Vueltas and only two or three other small stage races.

Get a room.

What ever happened to FloydFan?

DaveyL

paulcuthbert wrote:

SunWuKong wrote:

All this because his daddy didn't love him.

That's not on. Horrible thing to say

Is it as bad as "Cadel, told you so. You suck." ?

thamacdaddy

French fighter thanks for taking the time but you completely missed my point. I wasn't making my views (for what its worth I say AC should do whatever he wants) only that you can probably see in a world of egos maybe keeping quiet for a few weeks all be it publically then launching all out attacks after the event is pretty pointless.

He is burning bridges just in this instance its going to be that PR is probably going to make him come out as angellic where as if that were actually true he would keep his mouth shut and leave the troubles for his book or something and get on with being a great champion. Dirty laundry in public is not really making him any better than what lance does regardless of whether you feel he was in the right or wrong.

And if he develops form for going against team orders believing he can do what he wants then one day down the road that will cause him problems again regardless of whether we all think its right or wrong on the days his actions don't pay off is going to land him in trouble with teammates and DS. It wasn't just Lance and Levi having a go on the stage he dropped kloden quite a few others in the peloton were vocal in saying it was a wrong move.

Again this is not my personal view I think he rode a great race I can just see how the way he is being now might cause him some issues in terms of being a team player.

gabriel959

LOL, the only thing he said is that he doesn't respect Lance as a person, he hasn't been undermining him for months like someone else has! I think all the English speaking press has been a bit OTT with the Contador comments, he said he hasn't got a relantionship with Armstrong, insult anywhere? No. He also said he doesn't respect him as a person and never will. insutl anywhere? No.

I think if Lance was as good team mates as he is saying, why didn't he go and speak to him after the race to talk about the Kloden incident? Why didn't he celebrate stage results with him?

Even Tom Boonen said he felt sorry for Contador!

Kloden hasn't said a word either (but that is not surprising!!!)

GeorgeShaw

thamacdaddy wrote:

It wasn't just Lance and Levi having a go on the stage he dropped kloden quite a few others in the peloton were vocal in saying it was a wrong move.

Got any links for that?

frenchfighter

I doubt it George. He didn't really any of the points I raised about his post.

thamacdaddy

GeorgeShaw wrote:

thamacdaddy wrote:

It wasn't just Lance and Levi having a go on the stage he dropped kloden quite a few others in the peloton were vocal in saying it was a wrong move.

Got any links for that?

Though I am sure most will keep out of it rather than taking sides:
http://twitter.com/RobbieHunter
http://twitter.com/RobbieHunter/status/2780509506
http://twitter.com/RobbieHunter/status/2779477409

Actually correction not loads just one ...well put.

AC should be able to say whatever though doesn't really matter just don't think its going to achieve anything to do it now.

afx237vi

Is that the same Robbie Hunter who was watching the Tour on TV like the rest of us armchair-directeurs?

lucybears

gabriel959 wrote:

I think if Lance was as good team mates as he is saying, why didn't he go and speak to him after the race to talk about the Kloden incident?

he did
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread ... #post61065

frenchfighter

Oh, Robbie Hunter the 3rd rate sprinter who rides for Barloworld. Yeah, I repsect that guys's opinion a lot...

dennisn

lucybears wrote:

gabriel959 wrote:

I think if Lance was as good team mates as he is saying, why didn't he go and speak to him after the race to talk about the Kloden incident?

he did
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread ... #post61065

I have a friend who knows a guy, who knows a guy, that knows the brother of a guy
who knows all about this. Or. I read it on the internet. Great sources.

SunWuKong

I think I know the same Dennis, small world.

jimmythecuckoo

This is the best thread ever.

Armstrong clearly has an attitude problem and Contador thinks that having won two tours he can now stand up to him.

Good times ahead.

dibdab

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

This is the best thread ever.

Armstrong clearly has an attitude problem and Contador thinks that having won two tours he can now stand up to him.

Good times ahead.

+1