Contador - mmmm I'm not sure about him

Earthbound

NapoleonD wrote:

Earthbound wrote:

Langman wrote:

Looking at how easy he is on the bike and his massive power outputs for such a small framed man, really makes me think he is on EPO or some variation of it. One of the chacteristics of epo was the exposive powerful bursts up hill that he is the master of.

I think it very rare that a great small climber can also timetrial with the best, not to mention his dubious past when it comes to doping. He never shows any pain I don't beleive that he is that much better than the rest that he can just breeze it naturally. Its just a shame that nobody and mention his past without reparcussions.

I was willing on Frank and Andy today both I think are clean. I love the Tour and enjoy it regardless but Astanas power makes me suspicious. Well do Wiggo - I think he is clean, but you never know.

How on earth does EPO, CERA or otherwise, increase your power output?

I agree with your quote about Contador "he can just breeze it naturally"

As I understand it, it doesn't increase your power output per se, but it enables you to maintain a higher power for longer. E.g. what you can put out at max for only 45mins sans plomb, you can maintain for an hour with EPO.

So not relevant for short intense bursts the OP is querying then?

Anonymous

The thing is, with EPO you are going into the red at a higher level thus you are fresher for those sudden bursts...

E.g. Your Functional Threshold Power for 30 minutes is 400watts, you are riding with the group at 400watts up a long hill for about 30 minutes of a 40 minute climb. You are spent. With EPO your FTP for 30 minutes may be 440 watts. You are cruising with the group at 400 Watts. You are thus keeping a lot in reserve compared to before so you are able, after 30 minutes, to launch an attack...

Bronzie

Earthbound wrote:

How on earth does EPO, CERA or otherwise, increase your power output?

By increasing the oxygen carrying capacity of the blood you can supply more oxygen to the muscle cells - hence sustainable power increases. Like fitting a turbo to a car engine.

bikerZA

How good he has become at the ITT is suprising for a small climber.. Maybe he is just a natural phenomenon..

avalon

SpaceJunk wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

Langman wrote:

Just look up his past and you will see its surrounded in suspician - he could have provided DNA to clear him from the Puerto scandal but did not - for me thats pretty damning. All clean riders would have cleared their names by providing a sample.

Yet you think Frank Schleck is clean? The same Frank Schleck who paid 7,000 euro for training plans from Doctor Fuentes?

C'mon afx, Frank explained himself perfectly.

Yes, he did cough up 7,000 euros and gave it to a person he didn't know. Yes, the fee was for training plans - which he never received.

Sounds plausible to me.

And me.
The same barsteward saw me coming too, on ebay. :roll:

Homer J

Is it me or are most of these threads getting a bit samey :roll:

Langman

After watching the TT today I am in no doubt. Contador has improved too much on TTs.

As for people saying they would not give their DNA because of human rights etc I can't beleive it most people woul do it to clear their name once and for all. If you are clean whats the problem???

iainf72

afx237vi wrote:

Wait... I thought Wiggo was a scrawny climber too, no? If not, what is it about Wiggo's physiology that allows him, as a top pursuiter, to nuke the field on an hors categorie climb?

Funny old game

Evans : 64kg and his allowed to be a good tester
Contador : 62kg and isn't.

Kléber

There's no DNA to give as some Liberty Seguros riders had blood banked with Fuentes but some didn't. Note Allan Davis's defence, he was offering to give his DNA to anyone, knowing full well that none of his blood was in Fuentes's fridge; even if his name was supposed to be on documents alongside references to EPO, growth hormone and IGF-1.

Contador has questions to answer. But look how he responds, when asked about the subject it's always siguiente pregunta or "next question", he refuses to answer questions on the matter. Until he's relaxed on the matter, people will keep asking him. Contrast this to, say, Wiggins who's quick to explain where his progress comes or to discuss the subject.

fast as fupp

here you are lad http://www.wada-ama.org/en/dynamic.ch2? ... ory.id=244

give them a shout

Langman

Its not that easy - cheats have been getting away with winning Le tour for the last 100+ years.

But thanks anyway son.

Mettan

Contador's Annecy faux pas

http://www.bikeradar.com/blogs/article/ ... -pas-22537

finchy

Mettan wrote:

Contador's Annecy faux pas

http://www.bikeradar.com/blogs/article/ ... -pas-22537

Well, that's cleared that one up then.

paulcuthbert

I didn't know all this about Contador. Very interesting...

bobtbuilder

I'm a little suspicious - he looks so frail that a strong breeze would knock him over, yet he's turned into a TT monster! :shock:

fast as fupp

Langman wrote:

Its not that easy - cheats have been getting away with winning Le tour for the last 100+ years.

But thanks anyway son.

yer welcome dad

iainf72

bobtbuilder wrote:

I'm a little suspicious - he looks so frail that a strong breeze would knock him over, yet he's turned into a TT monster! :shock:

"Turned into"

It's not exactly new that he is an excellent TT rider.

Kléber

2005 Paris Nice prologue, 4km: Contador 7th
2006 Paris Nice prologue, 4.8km: Contador 4th

There's been no transformation, he's always been very good in the TTs and for a while was seen as a rider best able to win one week stage races on the basis of his TT abilities, not his climbing.

iainf72

Why he's always been good at TT'ing is a different debate entirely.

mididoctors

there all at it...

I like the story about the motor pacing any pix?

thamacdaddy

What is most interesting about that blog post to me is something kleber pointed out in the stage 18 post:

http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopi ... 8#15487508

Kléber wrote:

Contador sets the fastest time.

Contador has two motorbikes ahead of him, that's an advantage.

Fabian blatently knows how contador managed to beat his time on the stage and I think that can help explain the performance a bit more than the dopage theory along with the fact even in his discovery days JB was crowing how he had everything to be a great GC guy including a good TT.

Also if you had seen the ITV 4 highlights tonight they had post stage interviews with Wiggins who said that on the final descent there was quite a large headwind that hadn't existed when millar went out which is why he says he lost so much time. So either that disappeared when contador came down or the bikes really did make a massive difference.

Harry Hill

I thought the referees car, which was determined to get past the astana team car in that final 200m of straight to the finish, bumped alberto as he crossed the line. i'm sure I'm mistaken cos someone would have spotted it aside from me.

andyrac

Langman wrote:

After watching the TT today I am in no doubt. Contador has improved too much on TTs.

As for people saying they would not give their DNA because of human rights etc I can't beleive it most people woul do it to clear their name once and for all. If you are clean whats the problem???

He has improved, I remember 2 years ago in the final ITT, it was thought that Evans may overhaul him. Yes, Evans did beat him but by not enough. I would say he was a competant- goodish TTer. However, he is now beating Cancellara, and other expert TTers. Where does he get his power from? A gust of wind would blow him over - it doesn't seem to make sense, or does it?

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Sorry for being slightly cynical.....

aurelio_-_banned

thamacdaddy wrote:

if you had seen the ITV 4 highlights tonight they had post stage interviews with Wiggins who said that on the final descent there was quite a large headwind that hadn't existed when millar went out which is why he says he lost so much time. So either that disappeared when contador came down or the bikes really did make a massive difference.

Er, didn't Contador lose around 30 seconds in the last section of the race, apparently also due to a sudden rise in the wind? (Which was probably associated with the thunderstorms that were about to break in the area).

Earthbound

I still find it bewildering that the OP can say - I don't believe that Contador (by far the peloton's best natural climber) can be such a good climber, he must be on drugs. It's like sayng I can't believe Cav, the fastest man in the world, can win sprints, he must be on drugs. Or I can't believe that Armstrong, a self centered egomaniac, can be such a self centred egomaniac, he must be on drugs.

Well somebody's got to be a good climber, and if it's not a guy who is so obviously built from the ground up, to be an excellent climber, then who is going to be a climber? A chunkily built Texan

As Kleber pointed out, Contador has ALWAYS been an A1 time trialler. He was Spanish under 23 champion at the age of 19!!! His power to weight is excellent because (1) His weight is so low (UCI really need to bring a minimum rider weight to even things up) and (2) his power output is so high. Added to that his physique must give him a drag coefficient of about 0.15 (his TT position is perfect).

I guess some people simply have a tabloid mentality, that urges them to detract and declaim anyone who achieves any level of success.

Earthbound

I still find it bewildering that the OP can say - I don't believe that Contador (by far the peloton's best natural climber) can be such a good climber, he must be on drugs. It's like sayng I can't believe Cav, the fastest man in the world, can win sprints, he must be on drugs. Or I can't believe that Armstrong, a self centered egomaniac, can be such a self centred egomaniac, he must be on drugs.

Well somebody's got to be a good climber, and if it's not a guy who is so obviously built from the ground up, to be an excellent climber, then who is going to be a climber? A chunkily built Texan

As Kleber pointed out, Contador has ALWAYS been an A1 time trialler. He was Spanish under 23 champion at the age of 19!!! His power to weight is excellent because (1) His weight is so low (UCI really need to bring a minimum rider weight to even things up) and (2) his power output is so high. Added to that his physique must give him a drag coefficient of about 0.15 (his TT position is perfect).

I guess some people simply have a tabloid mentality, that urges them to detract and declaim anyone who achieves any level of success.

Doobz

Earthbound wrote:

I still find it bewildering that the OP can say - I don't believe that Contador (by far the peloton's best natural climber) can be such a good climber, he must be on drugs. It's like sayng I can't believe Cav, the fastest man in the world, can win sprints, he must be on drugs. Or I can't believe that Armstrong, a self centered egomaniac, can be such a self centred egomaniac, he must be on drugs.

Well somebody's got to be a good climber, and if it's not a guy who is so obviously built from the ground up, to be an excellent climber, then who is going to be a climber? A chunkily built Texan

As Kleber pointed out, Contador has ALWAYS been an A1 time trialler. He was Spanish under 23 champion at the age of 19!!! His power to weight is excellent because (1) His weight is so low (UCI really need to bring a minimum rider weight to even things up) and (2) his power output is so high. Added to that his physique must give him a drag coefficient of about 0.15 (his TT position is perfect).

I guess some people simply have a tabloid mentality, that urges them to detract and declaim anyone who achieves any level of success.

well said dude..

aurelio_-_banned

AndyRAC wrote:

...he is now beating Cancellara, and other expert TTers. Where does he get his power from? A gust of wind would blow him over - it doesn't seem to make sense, or does it? .

It makes about as much sense as Wiggin's newly found climbing ability, not to mention his strength against the clock!

stueyh

Hold up a second chaps, they've all been tested by the docs pretty religiously.

Is it not a case now of just wait and see? Or is it a case that they have some kind of magic Harry Potter potion that is invisible to laboratory tests.

dulldave

aurelio wrote:

It makes about as much sense as Wiggin's newly found climbing ability, not to mention his strength against the clock!

Wiggins isn't beating Contador up the climbs though. He's just improved on his own past ability.

The thing that's been getting me ever since seeing him TT at the Dauphine is that Contador appears to be all over the place on his bike.

Today he was repositioning himself after every few pedal strokes and his head was moving about all over the place. From my limited understanding of time trialling, this isn't good technique.

I'd expect someone who's been working on their time trialling to have sorted this. I mean if you don't sort that, what do you do to improve other than get used to pedalling a bigger gear?