Di Luca positive for CERA in Giro d'Italia

moray_gub · July 2009

calvjones wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

This makes me oddly happy. Guess I was right all along when I called his performances "ridiculous" in the Giro.

Not really becuae iirc your "ridculous" claims were relating to his climbing ability, so not that ridiculous at the time.

:?: I remember commenting on that thread that his climbing was out of all proportion to his earlier GT outings. Clearly this was why. So how does this make afx wrong?

You clearly didnt watch the 2005 or 2007 giros then becuase his climbing in 2009 was NOT out of all proportion to that. So to say his 2009 was riciculous compared to other GTs is just plain wrong.

moray_gub · July 2009

JC.152 wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

NapoleonD wrote:

Why is wiggins very suspicious?

He has never had previous links with doping and he is an incredibly powerful rider (Olympic pursuit champion?) who has lost a shed load of weight...

Two reasons he rode for Cofidis so the assocation angle that others are accused of kicks in here and
secondly he is climbing like Bernard Kohl last year ,this depspite never having shown anything like this before. For whats its worth i dont think he is doping but we cant have it both ways here

wiggins was climbing this well (or similer in the giro) unlike kohl who did come form nowhere

and wiggins came from nowhere in the Giro............you see where this takes us dont you ?

FJS · July 2009

afx237vi wrote:

Eh? Where do you think he got his climbing ability from?

The point is he had always been a half decent climber[/quote]

And in all probability he's always been a doper.[/quote]

He was a good classics hills climber, LBL-style, but his high mountain climbing abilities and TT-ing suddenly 'grew on him' a couple of years ago. Earlier in his career he never was a GC-rider

jim one · July 2009

As he served a previous ban for those 6 months during the winter surely a life ban follows now for a 2nd offence which also stops him coming back as a manager etc in the future.

moray_gub · July 2009

afx237vi wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

Well whats good for one is good for another eh, you see thats the problem thats been created by flinging around ludicrous accusations. So Brad sorry mate but your perfomances while great to see are very suspicious

Do you actually believe what you write or do you just enjoy being deliberately obtuse?

If you really can't see the difference between DDL, Kloden and Wiggins, then I truly give up.

Dont give up there is hope for you yet all is not lost, its all about being consistent you are quite prepared to accuse riders on flimsy associations and good perfomances yet you are happy to let a rider like Wiggins escape scrutiny. Of course Brad is British and as we know Brits dont dope.

DaveyL · July 2009

Moray Gub wrote:

. Of course Brad is British and as we know Brits dont dope.

Wa-hey we have a winner! I wondered how long it'd be before you trotted out that guff.

shinyhelmut · July 2009

Can't really argue with Moray Gub's reasoning about Wiggins. Doesn't mean I think he dopes but to some his performances this year could be seen as pretty compelling circumstantial evidence.

As for DDL is anyone really surprised?

afx237vi · July 2009

Moray Gub wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

Well whats good for one is good for another eh, you see thats the problem thats been created by flinging around ludicrous accusations. So Brad sorry mate but your perfomances while great to see are very suspicious

Do you actually believe what you write or do you just enjoy being deliberately obtuse?

If you really can't see the difference between DDL, Kloden and Wiggins, then I truly give up.

Dont give up there is hope for you yet all is not lost, its all about being consistent you are quite prepared to accuse riders on flimsy associations and good perfomances yet you are happy to let a rider like Wiggins escape scrutiny. Of course Brad is British and as we know Brits dont dope.

Thanks for answering my question - you are deliberately being obtuse.

Flimsy evidence? Di Luca? Really? Yeah, the crooked doctor, the Oil for Drugs, the deficient testosterone, the 3 month ban, all really flimsy.

RichN95. · July 2009

Moray Gub wrote:

You clearly didnt watch the 2005 or 2007 giros then becuase his climbing in 2009 was NOT out of all proportion to that. So to say his 2009 was riciculous compared to other GTs is just plain wrong.

If the drugs didn't cause an improvement, why on earth was he taking them?

moray_gub · July 2009

DaveyL wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

. Of course Brad is British and as we know Brits dont dope.

Wa-hey we have a winner! I wondered how long it'd be before you trotted out that guff.

You dont think that that is a position people take ? What colour is the sky in your world ................. :roll:

moray_gub · July 2009

RichN95 wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

You clearly didnt watch the 2005 or 2007 giros then becuase his climbing in 2009 was NOT out of all proportion to that. So to say his 2009 was riciculous compared to other GTs is just plain wrong.

If the drugs didn't cause an improvement, why on earth was he taking them?

The issue at hand was that his 2009 climbing was out of proportion to earlier GTs and it clearly wasnt.

Peakraider · July 2009

RichN95 wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Time for an avatar change. The joke has become reality.

May I suggest Kloden

Or Wiggins.

blazing_saddles · July 2009

Moray Gub wrote:

The issue at hand was that his 2009 climbing was out of proportion to earlier GTs and it clearly wasnt.

Have to agree with Moray, this time. Certainly no better than either 2005, or 2007.
It's hardly as if he suddenly discovered he could go faster with dope, now is it?

New "clean" avatar? Uuumm, maybe the Pope?

DaveyL · July 2009

Moray Gub wrote:

DaveyL wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

. Of course Brad is British and as we know Brits dont dope.

Wa-hey we have a winner! I wondered how long it'd be before you trotted out that guff.

You dont think that that is a position people take ? What colour is the sky in your world ................. :roll:

Maybe but not seen much of it here. Sure he is supported as a Brit butit doesn't mean he gets a free ride.

I would say if there is a presumption that Brad is clean it is more due to the team he is on than nationaltiy.

But don't let that stop you. You've obviously decided you've got everyone sussed, o wise and contrary one.

Kléber · July 2009

Di Luca won a mountain stage in the 2001 Giro d'Italia at Montevirgine

Acqua e pane? Io non credo!

Gazzaputt · July 2009

Moray Gub wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

Well whats good for one is good for another eh, you see thats the problem thats been created by flinging around ludicrous accusations. So Brad sorry mate but your perfomances while great to see are very suspicious

Do you actually believe what you write or do you just enjoy being deliberately obtuse?

If you really can't see the difference between DDL, Kloden and Wiggins, then I truly give up.

Of course Brad is British and as we know Brits dont dope.

No you have that wrong English don't dope but the scots..........

Jez mon · July 2009

Di Luca had suspicion hanging over him like a bad smell, wining in 2001? That was a really clean period of cycling!

Wiggo otoh, comes from a Track background where the majority of riders are seen as clean and now rides for a team which has no dirt associated with it. Sure, I'm not going to say I 100% believe he's clean, but he is one of the riders I would trust the most.

Kléber · July 2009

Wiggins has been through several teams and riders and staff alike have praised his anti-doping attitude. Who knows, maybe he's turned to the dark side now but there's nothing to suggest it.

Let's revisit Di Luca:
- bad reputation? Si
- links to a dodgy doctor? Si
- already implicated by the police? Si
- banned by ASO? Si
- suspicious "child" hormones Si
- on a team that contributes next to nothing to the anti-doping struggle Si
- refused to denounce dopers/ducks talking about the issue Si

Now compare that checklist to Wiggins. Now of course The Killer is innocent until the B-sample comes back but we're not talking about a whiff around this guy, we're talking a sickening stench.

iainf72 · July 2009

There are some interesting lessons for the cycling fans from this case. The main one is a new test doesn't scare the heck out of riders and make them change their behaviour as everyone expected.

I think that's down to CERA usage being widespread and people having got through controls before confirms it's only the unlucky few who get nabbed.

DaveyL · July 2009

Not all riders may be as hardcore in their attitude to doping as Di Luca. After all, he's been done before yet was still at it. Contrast with Basso, who's now as saintly as can be

after getting "caught" once.

iainf72 · July 2009

DaveyL wrote:

Not all riders may be as hardcore in their attitude to doping as Di Luca. After all, he's been done before yet was still at it. Contrast with Basso, who's now as saintly as can be after getting "caught" once.

Yep but look at a chap like Kohl. No one thought he was evil last year really. Even some journalists used him as an example of what clean cycling looks like.

Still, it's all good, I think only 4 of the current top 10 in the Tour have been linked to naughty practises.

trekrider127 · July 2009

It seems to me - other may disagree - that the difference with Wiggo is that we have a logical explanation for the change in form this season.

After all 8kg is like carrying an extra bike on your back - so if you lose that much, which he has, then its going to give a massive improvement to climbing. 1% per kg is it? He's already proved he has an engine.

The others, Kohl, Di Luca etc. - as far as I'm aware have never gone through such a massive physiological change to explain the improvement.

Of course Wiggo is not immune because he happens to be on the Garmin squad but it is a factor. Coupled with the body change I'd have to say I'm hoping that his success is genuine.

blazing_saddles · July 2009

iainf72 wrote:

I think that's down to CERA usage being widespread and people having got through controls before confirms it's only the unlucky few who get nabbed.

Or, are they?

simon_e · July 2009

trekrider127 wrote:

After all 8kg is like carrying an extra bike on your back - so if you lose that much, which he has, then its going to give a massive improvement to climbing.

And if you believe BW himself and those around him, he has changed his approach. It's surely no suprise that changing focus from 4,000m pursuit etc to GTs may change performance in the latter. Is it? Vaughters tweets "Not surprised by Brad at all. We knew he was capable of this and we worked hard to make sure he was in position to do it."

After Sunday's performance Millar (a convicted doper) mentions training and CVV's influence while Wegelius expresses undoubted confidence in Brad's natural ability, claiming to have known him for years. So, applying the logic of some posters here and elsewhere, we can deduce that Millar is an apologist, CVV knows "a really good doctor" and Wegelius is surely on the sauce too. Case for the defence shot down in flames, wouldn't you agree?

(for the hard of hearing the second paragraph is a parody of some posters' logic)

Kléber · July 2009

bradwiggins: Di Luca, what a Wanker! unbelievable

mididoctors · July 2009

Kléber wrote:

bradwiggins: Di Luca, what a Wanker! unbelievable

what that wiggins geezer said

thamacdaddy · July 2009

And here is another one from Mark renshaw @markrenshaw1

Thanks to Di Luca for all the hurt he put on us @ giro ! Good job UCI keep em coming...

I reckon they probably knew that back then though,,,

afx237vi · July 2009

mididoctors wrote:

Kléber wrote:

bradwiggins: Di Luca, what a Wanker! unbelievable

what that wiggins geezer said

"Saw my old track mate Iljo Keisse at the finish, keep your chin up mate"

Oh, now I'm doing a Moray Gub :shock:

mididoctors · July 2009

afx237vi wrote:

mididoctors wrote:

Kléber wrote:

bradwiggins: Di Luca, what a Wanker! unbelievable

what that wiggins geezer said

"Saw my old track mate Iljo Keisse at the finish, keep your chin up mate"

Oh, now I'm doing a Moray Gub :shock:

touche ...

leguape · July 2009

BdeB wrote:

di Luca was rumoured to be in talks with Sky. Is he the one Brailsfod say he saw the passport of and said no way.?

Er, Brailsford said they wouldn't talk to anyone with any links or taint from doping. I'm guessing Oil For Drugs would make it pretty obvious that Brailsford wouldn't even have contemplated it.

Di Luca positive for CERA in Giro d'Italia

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