Stage 17 - Bourg-Saint-Maurice - Le Grand-Bornand - SPOILER

Cumulonimbus

Le Commentateur wrote:

Cumulonimbus wrote:

158 riders in so far but no van Hummel. Kirchen ended up sixth last in the same group as the whole of Clumbia bar Monfort and Hincapie.

Van Hummel crashed on the descent to Sallanches and quit the race.

Ah, ok, i didnt know that. Shame

igamogam

Despite the results article saying "and after a game of cat and mouse it was Frank who prevailed" It looked more like a case of 'after having a chat about it during the descent, Alberto said "Thanks lads, one of you guys can win the stage if you drag me to the finish, but make it look like we are having a sprint will you" '

Or am I just being cynical... :P

Earthbound

thamacdaddy wrote:

Levi just posted on twitter.

If Andreas finishes 4th in GC by less than 2' from 3rd, we know where he lost it. . .

You pick your sides and you suffer the consequences.

thamacdaddy

bipedal wrote:

With teammates like these guys who needs opponents... I bet Bertie can't wait to get away from the lot of them

Totally further to all that levi has posted the following:

Ha, now I am the armchair quarterback! Some of you are right, you never truly know the truth unless you're there, most important is AC is. .

Still in yellow and believe me, that is the MOST important thing for Team Astana.

AC said in post race interview he had asked Andreas if he was up 4 the attack and got an ok. AC was upset he got left.. (via @theprecipice)

I can tell you that AC and AK speak to each other in English, so it's easily possible there was a misunderstanding. I'm sure we will see

Thing for me is these guys are pro's right. And in twitter they have the ability to skip press and pr people and get their opinion right out there, for them to post without even waiting to speak to bertie tells me both Levi and Armstrong definately have a problem with him. If these were my teammates (or workmates or whatever) if I liked them more the point i would be checking what the score was with them way before I post anything publically criticizing them.

On the same tone though Wiggo doesn't hold back and I guess thats why we love him so much

Thor Husovd, what can I say, after a certain persons comments today, Thor sticks two fingers up in a way that only Thor can. A true Gent

Earthbound

thamacdaddy wrote:

Further to that armstrong has posted

Getting lots of question why AC attacked and dropped Kloden. I still haven't figured it out either. Oh well.

Dear Lance, It's cos he's team leader, it's cos he's yellow jersey, it's cos he can.

Peakraider

afx237vi wrote:

thamacdaddy wrote:

Further to that armstrong has posted

Getting lots of question why AC attacked and dropped Kloden. I still haven't figured it out either. Oh well.

Wow, that really is pathetic. The yellow jersey is supposed to tow domestiques to the finish now? Funny, I thought it was the other way around.

I see what you mean...

But AC didn't cement his position over the A Schleck (his only threat) any... All his attack did was break his teammate and prevent him from getting either a stage win or a podium place.

Very weird move and possibly monumentally arseholish. Can't imagine they're best mates any longer.

Klodi might give a different version of course, so the jury's still out.

Le Commentateur

bipedal wrote:

With teammates like these guys who needs opponents... I bet Bertie can't wait to get away from the lot of them

So it's a competitive environment? Maybe that's how you get the best out of people, or at least a clean sweep on the podium.

dennisn

igamogam wrote:

Despite the results article saying "and after a game of cat and mouse it was Frank who prevailed" It looked more like a case of 'after having a chat about it during the descent, Alberto said "Thanks lads, one of you guys can win the stage if you drag me to the finish, but make it look like we are having a sprint will you" '

Or am I just being cynical... :P

If it's true then you're not cynical, you're right. I like to think you're right. These guys are not each others mortal enemies, as some would have us believe. People don't go around
all the time trying to p*ss other people off. Well, some seem to but.... I'd much rather make friends than enemies(although some might dispute that).

Peakraider

Latest tweet from Armstrong:

@W_Pahlkletzer No but I always followed team orders. Always.

Someone help me out here -- do team orders down the radio go to everyone on the same frequency? Ie, is Lance hearing what JB tells Bertie?

If so, it sounds a bit like there's something rumbling...

thamacdaddy

Peakraider wrote:

I see what you mean...

But AC didn't cement his position over the A Schleck (his only threat) any... All his attack did was break his teammate and prevent him from getting either a stage win or a podium place.

Very weird move and possibly monumentally arseholish. Can't imagine they're best mates any longer.

Klodi might give a different version of course, so the jury's still out.

I think everyone incl AC knows it wasn't a good move (I think he knew straight away) but the point is if he asked kloden and they could have dropped them then surely thats the bigger point. If he asked AK can you go and he said yes then surely thats not being an arsehole.

When I watched the race I was thinking what is he doing, but when you watch the post race interview you get the impression he is really not to happy that he dropped AK after getting the all clear from him, in terms of he knows it wasn't a good move for the team or AK and is disappointed but not angry....who knows but the TdF next year might be less for the lack of the Astana drama when AC gets his team and Lance et al get theirs. I guess then we can only focus on the actual racing as AC blows the field away.

igamogam

Yes it's an open transmission to all team members simultaneously.

Homer J

dennisn wrote:

igamogam wrote:

Despite the results article saying "and after a game of cat and mouse it was Frank who prevailed" It looked more like a case of 'after having a chat about it during the descent, Alberto said "Thanks lads, one of you guys can win the stage if you drag me to the finish, but make it look like we are having a sprint will you" '

Or am I just being cynical... :P

If it's true then you're not cynical, you're right. I like to think you're right. These guys are not each others mortal enemies, as some would have us believe. People don't go around
all the time trying to p*ss other people off. Well, some seem to but.... I'd much rather make friends than enemies(although some might dispute that).

It would not surprise me, but i have just finished reading "A dog in a hat"

Moomaloid

I think Armstrong's Twitters have been disrespectful to Bertie throughout the race. Bertie is supposed to be the leader of the team, obviously the strongest rider in the race and he has questioned everything he has done. As a team you are supposed to be united, which makes Bertie's position even more impressive.

My worry for tomorrow is that Wiggo will bury himself and then have nothing left for Ventoux, but lets not get too blase about his position which is still ultra impressive, and he pulled back time n the descent today very well.

thamacdaddy

Totally agree on armstrong and I think he has most of the team with him. The fact is I think AC is liked in the peloton and respected for being the talented and having the class he seems to have. That's why I think you could see schlecks working with him today. He knew he was on his own yet you could see him and frank talking at top of descent I presume to say lets put some time into wiggo get andy his podium and frank a stage win. Be interesting if the brothers were annoyed at his lack of taking the front on the climb but then again surely if they were in yellow they would do the same as him.

NicFrance

FJS wrote:

Belv wrote:

How good are the Schleks at TT's?

Frank is truly crap at TTs, Andy will lose time, but not that much.

Giro 2007 last TT (43km):

1. Paolo Savoldelli (ITA/AST) 52:20. (49,299 km/h)
2. Eddy Mazzoleni (ITA/AST) + 36.
3. David Zabriskie (USA/CSC) 38.
4. Laszlo Bodrogi (HUN/C.A) 1:08.
5. Marzio Bruseghin (ITA/LAM) 1:16.
6. Andy Schleck (LUX/CSC) 1:28.
7. Vincenzo Nibali (ITA/LIQ) 1:44.
8. Danilo Di Luca (ITA/LIQ) 1:57.
9. Mikhaïl Ignatiev (RUS/KOF) 2:01.
10. Franco Pellizotti (ITA/LIQ) 2:02.

Earthbound

Peakraider wrote:

Latest tweet from Armstrong:

@W_Pahlkletzer No but I always followed team orders. Always.

Someone help me out here -- do team orders down the radio go to everyone on the same frequency? Ie, is Lance hearing what JB tells Bertie?

If so, it sounds a bit like there's something rumbling...

I think there's an enormous difference between
Team orders - ie what the Kazak paymasters might say, the actual purpose of the Astana team.
and
Bruyneel orders - which are whatever Lance tells him.

donrhummy

WOW. Contador did NOT make an attack on Kloden as thought. According to Levi Leipheimer:

AC said in post race interview he had asked Andreas if he was up 4 the attack and got an ok. AC was upset he got left..

I can tell you that AC and AK speak to each other in English, so it's easily possible there was a misunderstanding. I'm sure we will see

Kléber

You could see Contador ease up in his attack when he realised Freiburg's finest went out the back. He immediately stopped, the Schlecks came up and then Contador spent the next two minutes constantly looking over his shoulder.

Peakraider

Aside from the absolutely enormous suspicions about Contador, I'm really warming to him.

The way he's handled all the sniping from Armstrong has been as classy as his riding. And he seems a decent bloke.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's willing to help other riders -- ie, the Schlecks -- given that his own team haven't exactly been all there for him.

Could do without the stupid handgun signals when he wins, mind (at the end of the stage is almost acceptable... but doing it into the camera when he's on the podium is naffola).

blazing_saddles

Lance should actually be thanking Contador.
If he and the Schlecks had towed the Freiburg Phantom to the line, it would be Lance fighting to remove Andy S from the podium, in order to clamber aboard.

He's climbing well, but would he really want to risk his climbing form against the bros, on the Ventoux, so he can stand under the Spaniard's Parisienne shadow?

stjohnswell

AC is having to put up with way too much BS from the team. He's in yellow FFS.

Bertie FTW!

(Never thought I'd say that)

Peakraider

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Lance should actually be thanking Contador.
If he and the Schlecks had towed the Freiburg Phantom to the line, it would be Lance fighting to remove Andy S from the podium, in order to clamber aboard.

He's climbing well, but would he really want to risk his climbing form against the bros, on the Ventoux, so he can stand under the Spaniard's Parisienne shadow?

Good point.

mididoctors

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Lance should actually be thanking Contador.
If he and the Schlecks had towed the Freiburg Phantom to the line, it would be Lance fighting to remove Andy S from the podium, in order to clamber aboard.

He's climbing well, but would he really want to risk his climbing form against the bros, on the Ventoux, so he can stand under the Spaniard's Parisienne shadow?

+1

if kloden hadn't cracked his outside shot at the podium would be well scuppered

FJS

Yes, although it looks like Armstrong is screwed anyway if he doesn't improve his climbing. Kloden still has a better chance of ending up on the podium I think. It is likely that the TT will put Armstrong, Wiggins and Kloden within a minute or so of each other to fight it out on the Ventoux for 3rd, and Kloden looks like the better climber of the three on long, steep mountains. Never mind, 4th or 5th is still very respectable for a 38 year old coming back from retirement.

rockmount

FJS wrote:

Yes, although it looks like Armstrong is screwed anyway if he doesn't improve his climbing. Kloden still has a better chance of ending up on the podium I think. It is likely that the TT will put Armstrong, Wiggins and Kloden within a minute or so of each other to fight it out on the Ventoux for 3rd, and Kloden looks like the better climber of the three on long, steep mountains. Never mind, 4th or 5th is still very respectable for a 38 year old coming back from retirement.

I must have missed something today :shock:

iainf72

rockmount wrote:

I must have missed something today :shock:

Depends whether Klodi bonked or not. He does look comfortable generally but lost contact only when Contador attacked and went backwards quickly. On steeper climbs he looks quite strong - Just below Andy and Alberto.

FJS

rockmount wrote:

FJS wrote:

Yes, although it looks like Armstrong is screwed anyway if he doesn't improve his climbing. Kloden still has a better chance of ending up on the podium I think. It is likely that the TT will put Armstrong, Wiggins and Kloden within a minute or so of each other to fight it out on the Ventoux for 3rd, and Kloden looks like the better climber of the three on long, steep mountains. Never mind, 4th or 5th is still very respectable for a 38 year old coming back from retirement.

I must have missed something today :shock:

what part did you miss? The part where Kloden came over the top of the Colombiere a minute before Armstrong and more before Wiggins perhaps?
I agree with Ian that it might be different if Kloden is really spent, but it's hard to see how you could think that Armstrong climbs better than Kloden right now.
And of course it remains to be seen whether Kloden will be allowed to ride away from Lance on Ventoux.

Kléber

Would be substantially different if Twitter did not exist? The ability to send instant message is also a rapid way of putting your foot in your mouth.

mididoctors

FJS wrote:

rockmount wrote:

FJS wrote:

Yes, although it looks like Armstrong is screwed anyway if he doesn't improve his climbing. Kloden still has a better chance of ending up on the podium I think. It is likely that the TT will put Armstrong, Wiggins and Kloden within a minute or so of each other to fight it out on the Ventoux for 3rd, and Kloden looks like the better climber of the three on long, steep mountains. Never mind, 4th or 5th is still very respectable for a 38 year old coming back from retirement.

I must have missed something today :shock:

what part did you miss? The part where Kloden came over the top of the Colombiere a minute before Armstrong and more before Wiggins perhaps?
I agree with Ian that it might be different if Kloden is really spent, but it's hard to see how you could think that Armstrong climbs better than Kloden right now.
And of course it remains to be seen whether Kloden will be allowed to ride away from Lance on Ventoux.

kloden will ride for lance

FJS

mididoctors wrote:

kloden will ride for lance

that seems likely, yes, especially with tomorrow's announcement. On the other hand, Kloden didn't seem to work for Lance today.