Cavendish "racist"

aurelio_-_banned

Stuey01 wrote:

The BNP vote in the UK was almost completely because people are/were hacked off with all the major parties sleaze, expenses scandals and generally being a right bunch of bast@rds. Completely due to "disaffection with politics and politicians in general".

Yeah, it had nothing at all to do with people's desire to see immigrants sent home, benefits cut for 'dole scroungers' and so on. Oh, and The British buy papers like The Daily Mail, The Sun, The Express and the rest en masse simply because they like the crosswords, not because they feel any sympathy for the extreme right-wing views such papers express. Hell, Britain is so right-wing that even the BBC is regarded as having a 'left wing bias' and to suggest that someone reads Britain's only mass circulation left of centre paper - The Guardian - is generally regarded as being a deadly insult!

Stuey01

From a Country that consistently has a much higher proportion of the vote going to extreme right wing parties it's a bit rich to be banging on about Britain's right wing tendencies.

Ironic that the most vocal view on this thread now is very anti British.

markwalker

despite rising anger caused by real or percieved socail issues, its interesting to note that left wing and overly liberal policies are implemented by local and central government quangos and unelected bodies all the time. Without the papers drawing attention the people would have no voice.

Perhaps the Extreme right wing views you say these papers take is a reflection on the dissatisfaction of the extreme leftwing and overly liberal policies.

Perversly shouted non tolerance of these views shows just how close extreme left and right wing politics can be.

flattythehurdler

camerone wrote:

aurelio, i realise your previous post was about censorship not frenchie phrase - ignore post and apologies...

This is exactly my point though. The old Nazi argument was inevitable once the word was used. Placing the word racist within quotation marks does not really lessen it's impact in the spirit of things. It has been removed from it's original quotation and placed here in isolation, and is extremely perjorative and emotive. Aurelio, I have been a defender of yours many times in the past, but do try to maintain perspective on this one.

aurelio_-_banned

Stuey01 wrote:

From a Country that consistently has a much higher proportion of the vote going to extreme right wing parties it's a bit rich to be banging on about Britain's right wing tendencies.

Eh? I don't know if you have noticed but the biggest political parties in Britain - the NLP and the Tories - are both pretty far to the right in their policies! As I said earlier the far right is marginalised in France. In the UK both the mainstream political parties ensure that their policies have enough appeal to the 'send them home' brigade to stop their votes going to the BNP. And where is the 'left wing' counter-voice in the UK? It practically doesn't exist, unlike in France where over half of the population still support parties to the left of 'Old Labour'.

Stuey01

aurelio wrote:

Stuey01 wrote:

From a Country that consistently has a much higher proportion of the vote going to extreme right wing parties it's a bit rich to be banging on about Britain's right wing tendencies.

Eh? The biggest political parties in Britain - the NLP and the Tories - are both pretty far right in their policies! As I said earlier the far right is marginalised in France. In the UK the mainstream political parties ensure that they do enough to appeal to the 'send them home' brigade. And where is the 'left wing' counter-voice in the UK? It practically doesn't exist, unlike in France where around half of the population still support parties to the left of 'Old Labour'.

where are these fabled far right policies?
Britain has been a soft touch on immigration and benefits etc for years, through periods of both Tory and New Labour government. The actions of these parties don't tally with your far right assessment of their policies.

aurelio_-_banned

Stuey01 wrote:

Britain has been a soft touch on immigration and benefits etc for years

Yeah right! That's what The Daily Mail would have you believe, and a lot of British people clearly think. It's not true though. I have a feeling that you must be either ill-informed or right-wing in outlook yourself. Or both.

---

Asylum. The facts. (Or why you shouldn't believe everything you are told by the Government, the Tories and the right-wing press)

Independent
23 May 2003

* In 2002, the United Kingdom was 8th in Europe in terms of the number of asylum applications per 1,000 of the population, with 1.9. Austria is top with 4.6.

* According to an opinion poll last year, the public believes that the UK hosts about 23 per cent of the world's refugees, although the real figure is 1.98%

* The public overestimates by a factor of 10 the number of asylum-seekers in the UK.

* The public believes that the average asylum-seeker receives about £113 in benefits a week; in reality they receive about £36.54.

* In 1999-2000, immigrants contributed £31.2bn in taxes and consumed £28.8bn in benefits - a net contribution of about £2.5bn to the economy.

aurelio_-_banned

markwalker wrote:

... its interesting to note that left wing and overly liberal policies are implemented by local and central government quangos and unelected bodies all the time..

Really? I have worked in local government and found it to be dominated by right-wing attitudes. It must be all the worse now that the Tories control most of local government.

markwalker wrote:

Perhaps the Extreme right wing views you say these papers take is a reflection on the dissatisfaction of the extreme leftwing and overly liberal policies.

I see no evidence of 'extreme leftwing and overly liberal policies' anywhere in the British political scene. You are right thought to suggest that 'The Great British public' seems to have a desire for even more right wing policies. Just look how long they kept voting for Thatcher! From a historical perspective it is also notable just how much support there was for Hitler and fascism back in Britain in the 1930’s, although much of that has now been conveniently written out of the history books.

I feel Orwell was right on the ball when he predicted back in the 1930's that the future political scene in Britain would be one based on 'a slimy Anglicized form of Fascism, with cultured policemen instead of Nazi gorillas and the lion and the unicorn instead of the swastika'. He even argued in '1984' that right-wing totalitarianism would come in the disguise of left-wing idealism. Just look to the NLP for confirmation of this! (Similarly, Hitler took care to call his fascist party The National Socialist Party, even though it was totally opposed to any form of left wing ideology).

markwalker

[quote="aurelioI feel Orwell was right on the ball when he predicted back in the 1930's that the future political scene in Britain would be one based on 'a slimy Anglicized form of Fascism, with cultured policemen instead of Nazi gorillas and the lion and the unicorn instead of the swastika'. He even argued in '1984' that right-wing totalitarianism would come in the disguise of left-wing idealism. Just look to the NLP for confirmation of this! (.[/quote]

Orwell was right, but if the UIK is right of your views does that make it right or wrong?NLP is totalitarian in style and one of the things that a lot of these "right wing" papaers ahve been doing is exposing the abuses, and the unelected power (Mandelson) in efefect giving the populace knowledge.in the process this may alter the way UK governent works or at least within a year theres likely to be a significant change.

whilst the uk is concerned about sovreignty, and pensions and immigration etc there is nothing intrinsically wrong with that, its a small very heavily populated island with limited resources its only natural. Were told for example that were a multicultural society but thats only the case for a very short period of time, why wouldnt people be concerned about unagreed change?

symo

Oh noes frogs getting beat now wine coz im that is betta than dem said summat.

Back on topic, I have never heard anyone use "Frenchie" for anything other than kisses, so this smacks of b0ll0x. Poor french papers not getting a look in on the only interesting person in the peloton boo bloody hoo.

Love to know if the "unamed" source even exists.

fast as fupp

"Oh noes frogs getting beat now wine coz im that is betta than dem said summat."

thats just jive talk dude! 8)

antfly

emadden wrote:

andyp wrote:

Someone needs to explain racism to the mystery rider I think. Insulting someone's nationality is not necessarily a racist act.

at the risk of being flammed here... but what do you expect? The average pro rider isn't exactly Einstein.. These guys are footballers on two wheels

Not true. Cyclists are better educated and have more qualfications than any other pro sportsmen, apparently.

fpbr

The french should just stop cycling since they obviously can't perform adequately.

dulldave

It's great how this thread is just exposing the xenophobic attitudes of those who are trying to criticise French xenophobia. To me, it seems the French care a lot less about the British than the British seem to care about the French. But maybe that's because I hang around here too much.

There are assholes in France and there are assholes in Britain. Show me the country that doesn't have any assholes.

There was a slight mention of this story in the paper I read yesterday. In resposnse to the rumours that he didn't like the French or France he replied. 'Not at all. The hostesses are beautiful, I'm very happy here'

He is getting a lot of positive press in the local papers and on the TV. Sorry if this dissapoints people who want to talk about how nasty and sour the french are. I have found the TV coverage relatively unbiased. They don't seem to be bigging up any french riders the way that we in Britain big up sportsmen who don't have a hope of winning the competition. (see England in any football tournament and Tim Henman for examples).

They interview the french riders about as much as we do the British ones.

jimmythecuckoo

Anyhow back to Cav.

Did anyone think he had some emergency media training before the stage yesterday?

He certainly seemed to have toned it all down.

aurelio_-_banned

markwalker wrote:

the uk is concerned about sovreignty, and pensions and immigration etc there is nothing intrinsically wrong with that

Except for the fact that much of that 'concern' is based on ignorance, prejudice and ‘Little Englander’ arrogance.

markwalker wrote:

[The UK is] a small very heavily populated island with limited resources

The average population density of the UK is relatively high for Europe at 244 per square km but is comparable with that of Germany and is much lower than that of Belgium (337 per square km) and Holland (393 per square km). If population density is somehow directly linked to prosperity and life quality it should be hell living in Guernsey (population density 830 per square km or Monaco (population density an amazing 16,000 per square km) but the opposite is the case. Also let's not forget that Britain is the 4th richest country in the world, and if Britain's wealth were a little more equally distributed the vast majority of the existing population, plus millions of incomers, could enjoy a much higher quality of life than they do now. (Especially given that immigrants on balance give a boost to the economy of a country).

markwalker wrote:

Were told for example that were a multicultural society but thats only the case for a very short period of time

Not true. The Romans, the Vikings and the French are just three cultures that have made Britain 'multi cultural' for centuries. Where do you think the name 'Great Britain' comes from? It is a modification of 'Grande Bretagne', dating back to the times when the British mainland was a part of France, being regarded as a large extension of Bretagne or Brittany!

stagehopper

some outlandish trolling on this thread.

bompington

aurelio wrote:

Also let's not forget that Britain is the 4th richest country in the world

Makes you wonder how such an ignorant, racist, easily manipulated bunch ever got that way doesn't it?

aurelio_-_banned

dulldave wrote:

It's great how this thread is just exposing the xenophobic attitudes of those who are trying to criticise French xenophobia. To me, it seems the French care a lot less about the British than the British seem to care about the French. But maybe that's because I hang around here too much.

It's not just you. I live in France and have found just the same.

dulldave wrote:

He is getting a lot of positive press in the local papers and on the TV. Sorry if this dissapoints people who want to talk about how nasty and sour the french are. I have found the TV coverage relatively unbiased. They don't seem to be bigging up any french riders the way that we in Britain big up sportsmen who don't have a hope of winning the competition.

That’s partly because the French generally don't regard sportsmen as somehow symbolising what the country stands for and their view of sport is a lot less 'tribal' than it is in countries such as the UK and USA. I agree with what Greg Lemond said at that 'Play the game' presentation when he remarked that he has found the French to be the most sportsman-like and fair-minded people in Europe when it comes to sport, only really wanting to see 'the best man win', almost regardless of their nationality.

An illustration, whilst Armstrong might try to bolster his position by pandering to and feeding anti-French xenophobia in the USA and wider English-speaking world, the French on the whole seem to be quite well disposed towards him. (God know why!). Apparently a recent poll found that over 70% of French people were happy to see Armstrong racing in the Tour again! I also quite upset one of my French neighbours the other day when we were discussing the Tour I argued that Armstrong had won his 7 Tours with the help of doping. Turns out he was a great fan!

Relatedly, I read some very interesting comments about French attitudes to sport during the football world cup, where it was noted that as a rule the French say things like 'They played well' in contrast to supporters from the UK who always say things like 'We played well'.

aurelio_-_banned

bompington wrote:

aurelio wrote:

Also let's not forget that Britain is the 4th richest country in the world

Makes you wonder how such an ignorant, racist, easily manipulated bunch ever got that way doesn't it?

Not at all. An ignorant, easily manipulated bunch of 'slaves' is just what you need if you are to build the wealth and power of a ‘nation’ and it’s ruling elites. It worked for the Romans, the Egyptians, the USA and UK in the days of 'The triangular trade' and many others.

The tradition of keeping a significant part of one's native population in virtual slavery ‘for the good of the nation’ also has a long history in the UK, continuing from feudal times right through the horrors of the Victorian age (when Britain’s industrial wealth was built up on the backs of the misery and poverty of the majority of the working population) through to the present day.

(And of course, encouraging racism and other forms of hostility towards out-groups can be a useful tool as it helps to ensure that the masses will direct their frustrations and anger at third parties, rather than the ruling elites who actually keep them in bondage. Encouraging hostility toward low status out-groups - from immigrants to 'dole scroungers' to 'lycra louts' - also helps to reinforce the hierarchical structure of society).

stagehopper

aurelio wrote:

That’s partly because the French generally don't regard sportsmen as somehow symbolising what the country stands for and their view of sport is a lot less 'tribal' than it is in countries such as the UK and USA. I agree with what Greg Lemond said at that 'Play the game' presentation when he remarked that he has found the French to be the most sportsman-like and fair-minded people in Europe when it comes to sport, only really wanting to see 'the best man win', almost regardless of their nationality.

An illustration, whilst Armstrong might try to bolster his position by pandering to and feeding anti-French xenophobia in the USA and wider English-speaking world, the French on the whole seem to be quite well disposed towards him. (God know why!). Apparently a recent poll found that over 70% of French people were happy to see Armstrong racing in the Tour again! I also quite upset one of my French neighbours the other day when we were discussing the Tour I argued that Armstrong had won his 7 Tours with the help of doping. Turns out he was a great fan!

You'd get along well with Cavendish. He's not a big fan of nationalism. He's proud of coming from the Isle of Man, but doesn't go in big for the British thing at all. For him sport is the pursuit of individual glory. He's an internationalista.

frenchfighter

CAN THIS BE MOVED TO THE CAKESTOP FORUM?

This is a pro race forum not a place to debate Britain, racism, BNP, Le Pen or anything like that.

mmitchell88

+1

simon_e

frenchfighter wrote:

CAN THIS BE MOVED TO THE CAKESTOP FORUM?

No! Don't spoil the fun, it would waste away and die an undeserving death in an unswept corner of the forum.

And anyway it's almost relevant. After all, Cavendish has been calling those Frenchies nasty names. Supposedly. Someone should get some soap from the hotel bathroom and wash his mouth out, not that it would make any difference, he'd just smell of soap for a while.

Seriously, the best part of this whole thread (if you cut out the 58 pages of off-topic, mostly ill-informed drivel about wars, nations and dubious political parties) is Iain's select comments early on - if anyone could be bothered to go back that far. My favourite was:

He's also been slacking off in the autobus. He's practically Nick Griffin :P

(which presumably prompted the lemmings to start on the Le Pen, the Nazis (yawn) and so on. Do these people search forums just to find references to these things?). Honourable mention / runner-up prize goes to for this one:

What, are you trying to imply that Cav is a homosexual?

They provoked proper laughing from me. Thanks guys. But hey, not while I'm in the office, right?

Cavendish made an attempt to explain his immediate post-stage outbursts on ITV4 last night. It made me chuckle when he said something along the lines of "Me, I'm not very tactful...". I thought, well at least someone's told him! IIRC it was recorded in London, so before the start of the Tour... unless there's a London in France near a stage start/finish.

Perhaps it's all a ruse to undermine L'Equipe's status as a 'newspaper', which is only good for wrapping your Freedom Fries anyway. Or would be if the Health & Safety NAZIS hadn't got involved (hope you like the way I slipped that in there).

Seirously, keep the jokes and smileys coming guys - on a slow, grey-sky Friday I need all the laughs I can get.

flattythehurdler

He's as quick as a panzer division round the maginot line :roll:

markwalker

have just surrendered to a bottle fo french wine and cheese. The wine was called "arrogant Frog" and was very nice.

I was going to have a german bottle but the last one tasted Nazi.

avalon

Simon E wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

CAN THIS BE MOVED TO THE CAKESTOP FORUM?

No! Don't spoil the fun, it would waste away and die an undeserving death in an unswept corner of the forum.

And anyway it's almost relevant. After all, Cavendish has been calling those Frenchies nasty names. Supposedly. Someone should get some soap from the hotel bathroom and wash his mouth out, not that it would make any difference, he'd just smell of soap for a while.

Seriously, the best part of this whole thread (if you cut out the 58 pages of off-topic, mostly ill-informed drivel about wars, nations and dubious political parties) is Iain's select comments early on - if anyone could be bothered to go back that far. My favourite was:

He's also been slacking off in the autobus. He's practically Nick Griffin :P

(which presumably prompted the lemmings to start on the Le Pen, the Nazis (yawn) and so on. Do these people search forums just to find references to these things?). Honourable mention / runner-up prize goes to for this one:

What, are you trying to imply that Cav is a homosexual?

They provoked proper laughing from me. Thanks guys. But hey, not while I'm in the office, right?

Cavendish made an attempt to explain his immediate post-stage outbursts on ITV4 last night. It made me chuckle when he said something along the lines of "Me, I'm not very tactful...". I thought, well at least someone's told him! IIRC it was recorded in London, so before the start of the Tour... unless there's a London in France near a stage start/finish.

Perhaps it's all a ruse to undermine L'Equipe's status as a 'newspaper', which is only good for wrapping your Freedom Fries anyway. Or would be if the Health & Safety NAZIS hadn't got involved (hope you like the way I slipped that in there).

Seirously, keep the jokes and smileys coming guys - on a slow, grey-sky Friday I need all the laughs I can get.

What a tosser you are .
Tw@t
Note lack of smilets,
These are tiny smillies for puffters like you ,
Might be a few spelling mistakes in these posyind cos i is from the isle innit, wot?

simon_e

avalon wrote:

What a tosser you are .
Tw@t
Note lack of smilets,
These are tiny smillies for puffters like you ,
Might be a few spelling mistakes in these posyind cos i is from the isle innit, wot?

Smilets, I've never heard of them. Perhaps they are edible, or something you use to freshen your breath? Sounds like you could do with the latter. Must be some kind of secret pre-pubescent codeword for something very exciting.

Would you care to elaborate on your cryptic response? Sorry, I'll rephrase that into some words you might be accustomed to hearing:

"Did you spill my pint? Are you staring at my burd?"