Cavendish "racist"

robmanic1

Bloody spoilers everywhere!

heavymental

Sorry Rob!

jackhammer111 - banned

"Tyres down on your bicycle, your nose feels like an icicle"

Up to Me!!!! and all time favorite!!

donrhummy

This is all just hearsay. You'll note that the anonymous rider did not give any examples of what he said. Cav is innocent until proven guilty.

Anonymous

Innocent? Guilty? Freakin' awesome is my verdict on Cav!

jackhammer111 - banned

iainf72 wrote:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/15072009/3/french-tour-riders-slam-racist-cavendish.html

Woo hoo, someones going to lamp him at last

The story is from L'Equipe. What else needs to be said?

The last time I checked the "French" weren't a single race.

The way he misuses the word I'd imagine if he was identified he'd be hearing from more people than Cavendish.

It's not an accusation that should be tossed around casually.

But, I return to my original point. It comes from the famously tabloid sports department at L'Equipe and deserves no attention.

FOAD

The L'Equipe story sounds like contrived bullshit.

And had Cav really used the term "Frenchie", my opinion of him would have gone downhill because I can't believe anyone from these shores could use such a "noncey" term for them.

Now had he moaned generally about "frogs" then I could believe the story completely. It is to my mind an almost friendly, joking term that has been used to mock the French for as long as I can remember, and to expect it not to come from the quick mouthed Manxman in a time of frustration or any other person is not beyond belief.

Having competed internationally for a number of years in another sport, I can hand on heart say that the French are the most ignorant culture that I have ever met, with little exception (The staff of McDonalds in one store in Amsterdam are world leaders, but they were all immigrants from a variety of far away lands).

To expect them to defeat Aussies as the biggest whiners however, seems a little optimistic.

I, like several others on here, have been pleased to see the efforts of their own countrymen rewarded during the tour however and on the stages where Cav hasn't been in contention for the win, have found myself routing for them in the breakaways.

andyp

jackhammer111 wrote:

But, I return to my original point. It comes from the famously tabloid sports department at L'Equipe and deserves no attention.

As opposed to their other departments?

Don't believe everything Armstrong tells you about newspapers.

Homer J

He's not a racist, he's just a very naughty boy :P

avalon

Heavymental wrote:

twowheeledwriter wrote:

Cav has just said on France 2 TV that he likes the French and France, and having spoken to some French riders this morning, there's no problem. He said "the media have no doping to report, so are creating stories elsewhere..."

Hopefully thats the end of it. Lets not forget that Cav equalled Barry Hoban's record of tour stage wins today. Pretty impressive for a young man. We should be proud of him even if he is a bit of a prickly character at the moment. Not that I find that a problem personally. Thats just the way he is. I don't find him to be rude...just a bit full of himself.

Get in there Cav, keep notching up those wins. I'd love to see him in green in Paris.

You talk like Sherwin and spoil the results for those who don't yet know. You are Sherwin. :evil:

avalon

dilemna wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

dilemna wrote:

Title and your OP plus your subsequent remarks alleging "He's practically Nick Griffin "
More than enough.

They were all done in a jokey manner. I'm sure most people figured that out.

It's not like I just called him a racist - As a matter of fact, I don't believe I ever seriously hinted that was my opinion. I said he might have said something inappropriate based on his previous form.

Not much. Alleged inappropriate comments as you put it, if indeed he did say them at all, are a long way from being a racist as others have tried to point out to you but you have still persisted with malicious insinuations camparing Cavendish to Nick Griffin leader of the BNP!

Well once you publicly besmirch someone's reputation jokingly or not with unsubstantiated remarks, repeating / republishing others' alleged statements which may not be true, adding 2 + 2 to make 4 then you are on a sticky wicket. I'm surprised the mods have allowed this thread to continue given it's title and content. Their rules on defamatory posts are quite clear. If I were Cav I'd be talking with a lawyer as remarks such as yours can be very damaging to one's image and reputation if they are false anyone who republishes them can also be pursued. Damages in defamation cases can be huge. I would take down/edit your post as a matter of urgency.

Lighten up .

jackhammer111 - banned

andyp wrote:

jackhammer111 wrote:

But, I return to my original point. It comes from the famously tabloid sports department at L'Equipe and deserves no attention.

As opposed to their other departments?

Don't believe everything Armstrong tells you about newspapers.

I don't know about their other departments. They might be outstanding. They don't have the same obvious conflict of interests problems the cycling desk has.

Lance problems ignored, they printed the Kohl interview only to have Kohl say he did not say what was in the article and is suing them. They claimed to have sources inside UCI that said 5 to 7 more riders would be sanctioned before the tour, which UCI was denying before the ink was dry.

And what they printed in this case is mere gossip. Maybe that's what the French readers love. But it's of no more value than the trash you read waiting for grocery check out.

andyp

jackhammer111 wrote:

I don't know about their other departments. They might be outstanding. They don't have the same obvious conflict of interests problems the cycling desk has.

Priceless.

Some times it pays to stop digging and walk away from the shovel.

markwalker

did he say "oi French surrender monkeys give way to the inevitable le sprints are mine"?

if he did good on him


Also I agree with AndyP!!!!!!!

RichN95.

His response to the L'Equipe report is classic Cav (from Cyclingnews)

Racist? Not me, says Cav' - just that "I'm an a*sehole"

Asked about an article in Wednesday's L'Equipe that said he was mouthing out to a French rider during the previous stage and being derogatory towards the French people, Cavendish refuted being labelled as a racist.

"I think I get hot-headed sometimes and it's irrelevant what nationality they are," Cavendish said. "I got shown the article this morning and I had to laugh at it. It would have been nice to have a name of the writer of the article to find out where this came from or the name of the rider that supposedly said this, so I could go and see what the problem was and find out."

Exuding a few nervous laughs, the occasionally outspoken British rider who's doing his best of late to contain inflammatory comments because of the trouble it gets him into, apologised for any offence caused, but says there's perhaps a reason behind why the French sports daily wrote such an article about him.

"I take it as a compliment they [L'Equipe] go and try and start s--- about something that's not my bike riding, because they've got nothing to criticise my bike riding about.

"I love to come here to race and I love to be here, and for sure, I'm going to get arsey [sic] at some riders because I'm an a*sehole, but it's irrelevant of nationality, and it's irrelevant of anything else. Like I said, I'm an a*sehole," he said.

moray_gub

iainf72 wrote:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/15072009/3/french-tour-riders-slam-racist-cavendish.html

Woo hoo, someones going to lamp him at last

You do realise this is Mark Cavendish we are talking here...........super guy model pro etc etc ad naseum. Though Stephen Roche doesnt think so, its actually quite hilarious to see all these posters in here fall over themselves to make excuses for his arrogance

moray_gub

RichN95 wrote:

irrelevant of anything else. Like I said, I'm an a*sehole," he said.

[/quote]

as i said....................

moray_gub

emadden wrote:

andyp wrote:

Someone needs to explain racism to the mystery rider I think. Insulting someone's nationality is not necessarily a racist act.

at the risk of being flammed here... but what do you expect? The average pro rider isn't exactly Einstein.. These guys are footballers on two wheels

ffs this from the poster who uses phrases like "Lansey Pansey"............glass houses and all that.

disgruntledgoat

Moray Gub wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/15072009/3/french-tour-riders-slam-racist-cavendish.html

Woo hoo, someones going to lamp him at last

You do realise this is Mark Cavendish we are talking here...........super guy model pro etc etc ad naseum. Though Stephen Roche doesnt think so, its actually quite hilarious to see all these posters in here fall over themselves to make excuses for his arrogance

You're usually the first on here to call people out for extrapolating based on shaky facts, unproven allegations etc... but it would seem it's different when it's apparently confirming your prejudices about a rider. How's that then?

aurelio_-_banned

Robmanic1 wrote:

anyway, they DO eat cheese, they DID surrender that time

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the British forces also 'run away' when faced with the onslaught of Hitlers armies? Remember Dunkirk? Also at Dunkirk it was French forces who stayed back to delay the advance of the Germans whilst the British 'ran away'.

drenkrom wrote:

French people are whiny. That's a fact. And you can't criticize me for saying that, because I'm French. kinda. French Canadian.

So you are about as 'French' as someone from the Congo or Switzerland...

drenkrom wrote:

Anyways, I'm sure Cavendish can say some pretty nasty stuff in the pack when he's got his game face on. That goes with being a sprinter. Cipo, anyone? I'm also sure that, if a French rider hears a "F'ing Frenchies", he'll take it personal.

Perhaps so, much like a black person might feel insulted if called a 'black bastard', even when this is done in a 'non racist' way.

To be honest the anti-French comments made on this thread highlight just how common anti-French attitudes are amongst Anglophones and so reinforce the likelihood that someone as arrogant as Cavendish did say something insulting.

aurelio_-_banned

andyp wrote:

jackhammer111 wrote:

But, I return to my original point. It comes from the famously tabloid sports department at L'Equipe and deserves no attention.

Don't believe everything Armstrong tells you about newspapers.

Quite so Armstrong even called Le Monde, perhaps the most credible newspaper in the world, a 'tabloid'. :roll:

disgruntledgoat

aurelio wrote:

Robmanic1 wrote:

anyway, they DO eat cheese, they DID surrender that time

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the British forces also 'run away' when faced with the onslaught of Hitlers armies? Remember Dunkirk? Also at Dunkirk it was French forces who stayed back to delay the advance of the Germans whilst the British 'ran away'.

drenkrom wrote:

French people are whiny. That's a fact. And you can't criticize me for saying that, because I'm French. kinda. French Canadian.

So you are about as 'French' as someone from the Congo or Switzerland...

drenkrom wrote:

Anyways, I'm sure Cavendish can say some pretty nasty stuff in the pack when he's got his game face on. That goes with being a sprinter. Cipo, anyone? I'm also sure that, if a French rider hears a "F'ing Frenchies", he'll take it personal.

Perhaps so, much like a black person might feel insulted if called a 'black bastard', even when this is done in a 'non racist' way.

To be honest the anti-French comments made on this thread highlight just how common anti-French attitudes are amongst Anglophones and so reinforce the likelihood that someone as arrogant as Cavendish did say something insulting.

Ummmm no it doesn't, that doesn't follow at all. A thread about somebody saying something anti french has some jovial french stereotypes in, therefore it's more likely Cavendish did say something?

What if he was accused of offering technical advice about coal mining, somebody started a thread on it and other people chimed in with their memories of the miners strike? Doesn't makeds him a coal miner does it?

aurelio_-_banned

disgruntledgoat wrote:

A thread about somebody saying something anti french has some jovial french stereotypes in, therefore it's more likely Cavendish did say something?

What if he was accused of offering technical advice about coal mining, somebody started a thread on it and other people chimed in with their memories of the miners strike? Doesn't makeds him a coal miner does it?

Your 'logic' seems to be all over the place there. I don't think that anyone is saying that Cavendish is actually a Francophobe or racist. After all, often people say things that might be taken to be 'racist' or 'xenophobic' not because they are genuinely racist or xenophobic but simply because they are pricks. However, given the common use of derogatory comments about 'The French' by Anglophones, it is credible that Cavendish himself did use a phrase that, as you would put it, drew on 'some jovial French stereotypes'.

(Not that I see phrases such as 'the French should know - ask any non-white immigrant in that country', 'Frenchie, I've used it. Usually in exasperation at them blocking the ports or some other stereotypically French behaviour', 'they DO eat cheese, they DID surrender that time and a lot of them are hairy and resemble monkeys', 'Surely by 'surrender that time' you actually meant 'surrendered those times'', 'French people are whiny. That's a fact', '...did he say "oi French surrender monkeys give way to the inevitable le sprints are mine", 'I can hand on heart say that the French are the most ignorant culture that I have ever met...' as being very 'jovial').

disgruntledgoat

aurelio wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

A thread about somebody saying something anti french has some jovial french stereotypes in, therefore it's more likely Cavendish did say something?

What if he was accused of offering technical advice about coal mining, somebody started a thread on it and other people chimed in with their memories of the miners strike? Doesn't makeds him a coal miner does it?

Your 'logic' seems to be all over the place there. I don't think that anyone is saying that Cavendish is actually a Francophobe or racist. After all, often people say things that might be taken to be 'racist' or 'xenophobic' not because they are genuinely racist or xenophobic but simply because they are pricks. However, given the common use of derogatory comments about 'The French' by Anglophones, it is credible that Cavendish himself did use a phrase that, as you would put it, drew on 'some jovial French stereotypes'.

(Not that I see phrases such as 'the French should know - ask any non-white immigrant in that country', 'Frenchie, I've used it. Usually in exasperation at them blocking the ports or some other stereotypically French behaviour', 'they DO eat cheese, they DID surrender that time and a lot of them are hairy and resemble monkeys', 'Surely by 'surrender that time' you actually meant 'surrendered those times'', 'French people are whiny. That's a fact', '...did he say "oi French surrender monkeys give way to the inevitable le sprints are mine..." as being very 'jovial').

Ok, but your own logic isn't copper bottomed there either. You are judging Cavendish by the actions of people who share one characteristic with him. Namely, they speak english. And arguing that given, in a conversation on a forum that is normally pretty light hearted, they made comments which anyone could see were made in jest (you honestly don't see anything jovial in quoting a line from the simpsons and following it up with "le sprints are mine"?) that this somehow makes it credible that Cavendish said something similar.

aurelio_-_banned

disgruntledgoat wrote:

You are judging Cavendish by the actions of people who share one characteristic with him. Namely, they speak english. And arguing that given, in a conversation on a forum that is normally pretty light hearted, they made comments which anyone could see were made in jest (you honestly don't see anything jovial in quoting a line from the simpsons and following it up with "le sprints are mine"?) that this somehow makes it credible that Cavendish said something similar.

I am not arguing that it is a logical certainly that Cavendish said something. However, do you think that the frequency with which Anglophones make anti-French comments make it more or less credible, or probable, that Cavendish did say something, especially given his self-acknowledged arrogance?

Also, I am not judging Cavendish purely by his nationality and the frequency with which others of that nationality make anti-French comments. (And despite your protestations, not always in 'jest'). I am also taking into account the report itself, and I see no credible reason why such a professional publication as L'Equipe would fabricate such a story. I would agree however that he was in all likelihood not actually being 'racist'. He's probably just a prick. Fast in a sprint but a prick nontheless.

P.s. do you find the 'jovial' banter about racial minorities from people like Bernard Manning and Jim Davidson funny? Just wondering.

markwalker

aurelio wrote:

Robmanic1 wrote:

anyway, they DO eat cheese, they DID surrender that time

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the British forces also 'run away' when faced with the onslaught of Hitlers armies? Remember Dunkirk? Also at Dunkirk it was French forces who stayed back to delay the advance of the Germans whilst the British 'ran away'.

[.

Aurelio,

Im afraid you are wrong this time, The british forces made a tactical withdrawal

aurelio_-_banned

markwalker wrote:

Im afraid you are wrong this time, The british forces made a tactical withdrawal

Yes, 'plucky Brits' never 'run away' (I did use parentheses!). Just like British bike riders would never make insulting remarks about 'the French'...

By the way Cavendish is reported as saying "For sure I'm going to get arsey at some lad - because I'm an arsehole," said Cavendish. "But their nationality, and what they look like or where they come from is irrelevant."

So what's the betting that whilst to him nationality 'is irrelevant', his 'arseyness' does draw on 'jovial French sterotypes' at times?

dulldave

FOAD wrote:

The L'Equipe story sounds like contrived bullshit.


Having competed internationally for a number of years in another sport, I can hand on heart say that the French are the most ignorant culture that I have ever met, with little exception (The staff of McDonalds in one store in Amsterdam are world leaders, but they were all immigrants from a variety of far away lands).

Hmmmm. Perhaps you should get a job with the UN given your expertise on the French. I mean, having competed with some of them at some point. The men you were competing with were probably as ignorant as you. It is hardly an insight into the entire culture.

I havent heard or seen any anti Cav press over here other than to call him English.

prawny

I funnily enough I always say I don't like the french, when in reality I didn't like one french women on a sea france ferry in 1997.

The French exchange student we had at school I liked very much. 8)

VerwoodAsh

and I see no credible reason why such a professional publication as L'Equipe would fabricate such a story.

Perhaps it is to get some column inches on what has actually been a quiet tour so far.

Perhaps if there had been more shocking stories about drug cheats then this would not have even seen the light of day - but as it is quiet then the not so strong stories do come out into the open. This happens at a lot of "professional" publications and sometimes it is sloppy editing - but at the end of the day the paper still has to be produced with some words on it istead of a lot of blank pages.

This story has all the hallmarks of that - no named sources, no named riders reporting the abuse - but involves a jersey wearer who also happens to have a buit or arrogence about him and also isn't French either.

Oh, and I do have exeprience of things like this happening as the Father of an ex girlfriend lost his job as an editor back in the 80's whilst working for a "professional" UK paper and ran a story on a low news day without checking all the facts were true.