Pure Climbers

frenchfighter

andyp wrote:

Is that last one Leonardo Sierra? There's a blast from the past.

Impressive. I don't know who it is but they look super cool. Under the photo in flickr someone has also said it was him so likely you're right.

Taken from here - some amazing shots there:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27377603@N ... 811746890/

andyp

Not that impressive, just getting old!

He was a promising young rider, who did very well in the Giro in the early 1990s, finishing in the top ten 3 or 4 years in a row. He then joined Carrera and it was all downhill after that.

Sadly he's most famously remembered for his comedic fight with Ramon Gonzalez Arrieta from the Vuelta in the mid-1990s.

frenchfighter

victorponf

andyp wrote:

Not that impressive, just getting old!

He was a promising young rider, who did very well in the Giro in the early 1990s, finishing in the top ten 3 or 4 years in a row. He then joined Carrera and it was all downhill after that.

Sadly he's most famously remembered for his comedic fight with Ramon Gonzalez Arrieta from the Vuelta in the mid-1990s.

I'm also remember him falling lost of time descending the Mortirolo (think in 1990)

frenchfighter

CEO of Rapha, Simon Mottram, on Panache:

Dear all

Every year Paris Nice marks the start of season for me, when proper racing finally hits the roads of Europe and arm warmers are symbolically discarded over a week of racing to the sunny Med. No doubt there will be lots of great racing this season and I will be gripped until the Tour of Lombardy. But, like every year, I will also be looking for more from road racing than amazing feats of endurance and power, great teamwork or cagey duels in the mountains. Like every year, I will be looking for the quality that elevates road racing from just a ‘sport’ to something more profound, more meaningful and more uplifting. That quality is panache.

Dictionaries define panache as a grand or flamboyant manner, someone who acts with panache shows verve, style or flair. The word was first used in Edmond Rostand’s play Cyrano de Bergerac and comes from the french term for a plume of feathers – not much to do with bike racing, you might think. And yet, the history of road racing is littered with moments of panache and it is just those moments that touch us most and give us a spiritual, almost human connection to the greatest bike racers. You know panache when you see it: Marco Pantani throwing down his diamond stud before attacking Indurain on the Monte Campione, Jalabert, the sprinter, attacking in the mountains on an all day escape to become an unlikely winner of the King of the Mountains, Cancellara riding away from peloton in the last few km of a Tour stage in 2007, David Millar attacking into Barcelona in 2009, the screams of thousands of his adopted home crowd ringing in his ears. These are exploits that surprise us with their courage and daring. And the riders with panache are often dashing, charismatic individuals who embrace risk and enjoy probing the edges of what’s possible.

My favourite commercial, from Apple in 1999, expressed it well:

“Here’s to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They’re not fond of rules. And they have no respect for the status quo. You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them. About the only thing you can’t do is ignore them. Because they change things. They push the human race forward. And while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.” (Apple Inc.)

More often than not, riders with panache are winners. After all, crazy attacks (‘echappees bidon’) quickly lose their appeal if they are always doomed to failure. And yet, panache also involves a high degree of risk. Amazing demonstrations of force and power on the bike are impressive certainly, but they rarely touch us. True panache walks a fine line between success and failure and it’s precisely that uncertainty and tension that touches us and connects the racer’s exploits with our own experience.

Sadly, panache has been in short supply in recent years. Road racing today is increasingly professional, with bigger budgets, more scientific training and expert coaching. It is the era of marginal gains, where riders hide behind helmets and sunglasses, coaches and media advisors, watching their watts and lactate thresholds and rarely taking matters into their own hands. The pro peloton and biggest races seem suffocating and it takes ever more self confidence and spirit for a rider to stamp his will on important races. It makes for less interesting racing and a sport that is losing its connection with the fans. I suppose it’s the price of progress. In the so-called ‘glory days’ of road racing there was less to gain, but also less to lose.

There are flickers of hope and rare moments of panache that cut through. My highlights of last year’s racing? Cancellera riding away from boonen at Flanders without once looking back; Nibali braking on a descent in the Giro to wait for team leader Basso who couldn’t keep up; Rain-soaked Gilbert taking on all comers at Lombardy.

You can call me unrealistic or an old romantic if you like, but this is my call to all riders this season: Show some panache.

Think for yourself. Assert your own personality on a race or a moment. Surprise us and give us something to cheer. Stand up for yourself and stand out from the crowd. Honour yourself and honour the sport. Ultimately you’ll gain more from chancing your arm this season than from grinding out yet another respectable result. And we will love you all the more for it.

To paraphrase Apple, let’s celebrate the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones with panache who make us love the sport of road racing.

Simon

Homer J

I though it was some kind of perfume

EKIMIKE

The CEO of Rapha quoting and paraphrasing Apple marketing campaigns. :roll:

Christ, i feel the urge to vomit. I think Simon Mottram just ruined cycling for me.

johny c

Kellogs tour, 89.

Approaching the Tumble on the stage from Birmingham to Cardiff. Up the road is Mauro Gianetti, as the rest of the peleton is pootling away in the wee ring. Then from the back somewhere, a blur of blue as Robert Millar shoots past in the big ring. He then puts 15mts into the bunch, only Gianetti manages to stay with him and the tour's all over bar the shouting on stage 4. I play that day over and over in my mind's eye, I hope it turns up on youtube one day.

Anyhow, if you'll permit a slight departure from the topic. Ever heard of Ueli Steck? here's some pure climbing for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-dPjDYVKUY

Garry H

johny c wrote:

Anyhow, if you'll permit a slight departure from the topic. Ever heard of Ueli Steck? here's some pure climbing for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-dPjDYVKUY

Aye, not bad

My forearms are aching just watching that. Some of his other exploits on the Eiger are even more impressive.

Gavin Cook

Lucho Herrera was the most entertaining pure climber of all time for me.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHyREK34GHc

Ron Stuart

If any of you guys have done ‘Winnats Pass’ you might find this interesting. It is an extract from a book by Tony Hewson ‘A racing cyclist’s worst nightmare’. Tony is describing his ride up Winnats/Mam Tor in 1953 during the North Midlands Section Championship.


“A word about gearing: the standard double chain-ring in the 1950s was 52-48. I coupled this with a block (cassette) of 14-16-18-21-24, giving me ten gears with a top of 100 inches and a bottom of 54. I have to say that I rarely used bottom gear in a race unless, that is, I was faced with a hill steeper than 1 in 6, or my legs were giving out after 100 plus miles and survival was the only realistic option. There were reasons for this. One, I was a pusher, not a pedaller. Two, I distrusted the Simplex derailleur that for one reason or another I employed throughout my career. It was poorly designed. It relied too much on the force of its flimsy spring – and that was always touch–and-go. Sometimes, to attain the big sprocket required several chattering attempts, with a consequent loss of momentum at precisely the time when you most needed not to give an inch to your opponents.”

Tony was 19 at the time, he got away with the main break but during the two mile ascent of Froggatt Edge, Nev Taylor caught the others in the break Tony, Pound, Short and Bartrop napping on the steepest part of the ascent, he went over with 150 yard lead. On the descent to the Fox House Inn Tony went for it and was closing the gap but there was a cloud burst only brief but Tony went down on a greasy bend and Nev went on to be crowned Section Champion.

Not the High mountains but some climbing respect here I think and remember in the fifties the bikes weren’t exactly light-weights either.

Oh! For those that don’t know Winnats gets up to 1 in 4 or 25% in modern speak.

Tony still runs and cycles by the way.

deejay

Ron Stuart wrote:

If any of you guys have done ‘Winnats Pass’ you might find this interesting. It is an extract from a book by Tony Hewson ‘A racing cyclist’s worst nightmare’. Tony is describing his ride up Winnats/Mam Tor in 1953 during the North Midlands Section Championship.


Oh! For those that don’t know Winnats gets up to 1 in 4 or 25% in modern speak.

Tony still runs and cycles by the way.

I read Tony in the Clockwork Forum known as FCOT, along with many League wallers. (I was NCU and yes, right up)

Now about this dancing on the pedals during a climb and for style I havn't seen a better climber than Fausto sitting and pulling on the tops. (with an occasional dance perhaps)
I have accepted Pantani's style since I first saw this new guy when Indurain (sitting) caught him in the Giro and like everybody else he rode on Mig's wheel to do a Bruyneel,Rominger,LeBlanc and ride past for a Stage win.
My acceptance with Pantani being a lightweight and he would have to dance on the pedals in that funny style of his to great effect.

These modern riders need the dancing to be able to do Track Stands on a mountain I suppose. (WTF is that)

Ron Stuart

[/quote]I read Tony in the Clockwork Forum known as FCOT, along with many League wallers. (I was NCU and yes, right up)
[/quote]

Alas seems no more...... http://www.fcot.co.uk/

deejay

Ron Stuart wrote:

deejay wrote:

I read Tony in the Clockwork Forum known as FCOT, along with many League wallers. (I was NCU and yes, right up)

Alas seems no more...... http://www.fcot.co.uk/

The clockwork is running fine with so many members.
It is more suited to a quarterly rag.

Edit
A lot of good Climbers in there also that were (are) far better than me.

frenchfighter

If you love climbers you will love a lot of the info in this thread.

Clements753

Hi French,

First post so Rick and others will slay me for being under "200"

However, there was a great documentary on Robert Millar made in the late 80's (I think) that was screened on British national TV. It was superb followed him training and riding the high mountains - you really should try and track it down. After reading your postings I think you would enjoy it.

Cycling has changed with technology and it is much more clinical today, in the past riders trained and race on feel which gave a wider variance between styles/types of riders.

I love pure climbers destroying powerhouses but it doesn't happen quite that way today. The excitement of a skinny sod taking apart big, big names on a long climb is just wonderful.

I am biased as when I raced I was 9.5 stone, anyone could ride away from me on the flat, it was shameful, if the race had a big big hill in it though (especially at the end) all the hurt would be turned onto others, all done on "feel" with no numbers on a read out on the bars telling you when someone would crack.

rick_chasey

Clements753 wrote:

Hi French,

First post so Rick and others will slay me for being under "200"

Woah, way harsh! I defend the n00bs!

Clements753

I apologise - must keep the good side of mods.

I'll talk alot of poo during the tour then you can play the "painful noobs card" !

rick_chasey

Clements753 wrote:

I apologise - must keep the good side of mods.

I'll talk alot of poo during the tour then you can play the "painful noobs card" !

Pfft. We were all n00bs once.


Anyway.

I remember reading somewhere that the average size of pros is going up as well - related to the narrowing of performance, and the way in which they race - which is pretty different to now.

Clements753

Yes now it is marginal gains and thin blue lines, the days of 8 minutes being taken out of the rest of field by one person, in one stage are gone.

Poor Frenchie lived in the wrong generation, he would have creamed himself 30 to 40 years ago, now the interest comes in different ways, its the tech, its the sucker punch dealt in margins here and there that make the difference.

disgruntledgoat

Poor Frenchie lived in the wrong generation, he would have creamed himself 30 to 40 years ago, now the interest comes in different ways, its the tech, its the sucker punch dealt in margins here and there that make the difference.

The standard is consistently much higher these days too. Rather than the best form 5 or 6 countries you've got the best of the world. Makes dominating performances much harder to come by as the margins between riders are so slim.

Clements753

I agree the standard is far higher today, my point is that Frenchie would have loved the "panache" that the greater differences between riders showed up.

Clements753

Found it here :-

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-High-Life-R ... 700&sr=8-1

All I know as a cycling junkie I loved it at the time, don't know if it has stood the test of time, but as a pure "climber" video before powermeters I think it should be a must watch

frenchfighter

Clements753 wrote:

I am biased as when I raced I was 9.5 stone, anyone could ride away from me on the flat, it was shameful, if the race had a big big hill in it though (especially at the end) all the hurt would be turned onto others, all done on "feel" with no numbers on a read out on the bars telling you when someone would crack.

You are right that I would have loved it back then although I definitely still enjoy it now. I guess in the past also, there would be so little coverage and photos, video clips etc that it would be harder to follow and enjoy, so maybe at the time it didn't look so rosy and maybe it is the comparison to know that plays a part in the glorification of yesteryear.

Thanks for the link on the Robert Millar film - will try and get a copy.

LeicesterLad

Love the thread revival Frenchie - not seen this one before and its been a good read.

At the start of the thread there was lots of talk about Dan Martin looking to be a pure climber, riding by feel etc...

How do people feel 3 years on...

rick_chasey

Who the hell is that teagar guy?

Great posting style.

frenchfighter

Yeah that guy was a good poster.

frenchfighter

LeicesterLad wrote:

Love the thread revival Frenchie - not seen this one before and its been a good read.

At the start of the thread there was lots of talk about Dan Martin looking to be a pure climber, riding by feel etc...

How do people feel 3 years on...

Good question re Martin. Its a difficult one as I am not sure whether he has actually had the opportunity to shine or whether he has been plagued by illness etc or team politics.

He showed very well in the Vuelta last year, got 2nd in Lombardia! and is actually 24th on CQ ranking.
L: http://www.steephill.tv/players/youtube ... fQ&yr=2012
V: http://www.steephill.tv/players/youtube ... r8&yr=2012

On the whole, I reckon he hasn't quite got it yet. Definitely not for GC. It would be nice to see him go after the polka dots in style though.

I still like him and he remains an attacking rider.

LeicesterLad

Yeah i'm a big fan of Martin and its hard to tell how he has progressed because opportunities may be a little thin on the ground at Garmin. Thing is though he's getting older now, we keep hearing he's breaking through or going to break through in a couple of seasons, but he hasn't really done anything noteworthy yet (excluding stage wins here and there)...

I could even suggest that he's more of a puncheur than a true climber, I always think of him when there is a short sharp uphill finish rather than on long winding mountain passes, a little like Rodriguez but without the final ability on the long stuff...

inkyfingers

I've got a soft spot for Dan Martin, though it's fair to say that as yet he's only shown glimpses of his potential.

I don't think he'll ever win a GT, but he certainly has the potential to end his career with a handful of quality mountain stage wins and maybe some overall wins in races like Catalunya and Pais Vasco. He's had quite a few health issues (allergy problems and a knee injury) which if he can sort out will hopefully allow him to take another step up. The polka dot jersey could definitely be a realistic target if the team will give him that freedom, suspect they'd rather he was winning stages though as that gets better publicity. I think he's at the right team though, he'll probably get more opportunities as a wildcard at Garmin.