Pure Climbers

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  • Arkibal
    Arkibal Posts: 850
    DaveyL wrote:
    Paris-Nice prologue last year. Annecy TT at the TdF last year.

    He didn't beat Cancellara in P-N. Annecy was not flat.
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    "people like Cancellara".

    i.e. TT specialists.

    His split for the first (flat) part of the Annecy TT was faster than Cancellara's.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Arkibal wrote:
    DaveyL wrote:
    Paris-Nice prologue last year. Annecy TT at the TdF last year.

    He didn't beat Cancellara in P-N. Annecy was not flat.

    Check. Exactly. Wiggins is no Cancellara.

    Please Davey don't spoil this thread by turning it into one about Contador being dubious in your eyes. If that interests you then please start a thread about it.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Sorry - I thought it was OK to make doping insinuations on this thread - see your post, which I responded to in the first place.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    It was just something that I read today and which could be of interest to people like me who love climbers. I wouldn't take it as anything more than that.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • The Prodigy
    The Prodigy Posts: 832
    FF is right.

    This is an interesting thread, no need to talk rubbish about Contador beating Cancellara. Especially when your examples are flawed!

    As Contador is alot more than a pure climber it could be argued he shouldn't be in this thread. But certainly his climbing ability is unparalelled in todays peleton.
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Oh, my examples were flawed? Go on.

    And here was me thinking this:

    "If this was the case then we should uphill TTs riddled with pure climbers yet as this isn't the case, it has been given as evidence that epo is/was rife.

    See here for a classic example:
    http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/200 ... ts/stage16"

    was a bit of mud-slinging towards a number of riders, coupled with "flawed" analysis of who should be where in the placings for that stage... :roll:

    Sorry, I shall leave y'all to your Bertie love-in...
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • The Prodigy
    The Prodigy Posts: 832
    DaveyL wrote:
    Oh, my examples were flawed? Go on.

    And here was me thinking this:

    "If this was the case then we should uphill TTs riddled with pure climbers yet as this isn't the case, it has been given as evidence that epo is/was rife.

    See here for a classic example:
    http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/200 ... ts/stage16"

    was a bit of mud-slinging towards a number of riders, coupled with "flawed" analysis of who should be where in the placings for that stage... :roll:

    Sorry, I shall leave y'all to your Bertie love-in...

    Your examples were flawed, not sure what FF's post had to do with your crap examples.
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Y'know, Rumsfeld was wrong when he said "Something's neither good nor bad, but saying it makes it so"...
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • Arkibal
    Arkibal Posts: 850
    DaveyL wrote:
    "people like Cancellara".

    i.e. TT specialists.

    His split for the first (flat) part of the Annecy TT was faster than Cancellara's.

    There are no people like Cancellara, he is above all when it comes to flat TT's.

    Wiggins and Ignatiev posted the fastest times on the first flat part of the Annecy TT before Contador, that tells me that Cancellara was tired or that he was saving himself for the climb.
    Contador was obviously going full out from the start, had a 18 sec lead at the 1st check, on top of the mountain over 40 secs, yet he could barely hold on to the finish.

    For a rider who has a very good TT record, that doesn't surprise me.
    Had it been a flat TT, then yeah, it would have.

    But maybe that he beat your boy Wigan is what upsets you.
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Fair enough, we should congratulate "your boy" Contador, and Andy Schleck. Two pure climbers, and the only riders with the distinction of finishing on a TdF podium with Armstrong and *not* getting done for doping. And they were the first ones to finish ahead of him! In fact several people have said Contador would still have beaten LA in his "prime" years. What a natural talent!

    Well done lads!
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,578
    There's none so blind as those that will not see
  • Arkibal
    Arkibal Posts: 850
    DaveyL wrote:
    Fair enough, we should congratulate "your boy" Contador, and Andy Schleck. Two pure climbers, and the only riders with the distinction of finishing on a TdF podium with Armstrong and *not* getting done for doping. And they were the first ones to finish ahead of him! In fact several people have said Contador would still have beaten LA in his "prime" years. What a natural talent!

    Well done lads!

    Where did I say anything about doping or Armstrong?
  • sampras38
    sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    disquieting_museeuws wrote:
    Van Impe is right about Virenque IMO, he was never a natural climber.

    Jose Manuel Fuentes, from the Merckx era, is a good candidate for the climbers hall of fame I reckons. He had a very fluid style and could take off on huge make-or-break attacks in the mountains.

    He was never a natural anything...;-)

    I very rarely post anything about doping on here because it's really not necessary, and has been done to death anyway, but in Virqenque's case I will. It annoys me that the french constantly badger LA, yet for some reason they put this guy on a pedastal, when he was one of the heaviest users in the Festina team.

    King of the Mountains...?

    My butt.
  • sampras38
    sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    DaveyL wrote:
    Fair enough, we should congratulate "your boy" Contador, and Andy Schleck. Two pure climbers, and the only riders with the distinction of finishing on a TdF podium with Armstrong and *not* getting done for doping. And they were the first ones to finish ahead of him! In fact several people have said Contador would still have beaten LA in his "prime" years. What a natural talent!

    Well done lads!

    Humm, I've heard those comments about Contador too, but I'm not so sure. I think some people actually forget just how good LA was in the mountains, especially if you take his 1st 3 tours. I watched the 2000 last night and his attacks and breakaways against the likes of Pantani, ulrich, Virenque etc were awesome. He's a 100 times more smarter than those guys (in terms of when to attack etc) and his exceleration was pretty special imo.

    No I'm not a fanboy, as I like loads of riders.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    sampras38 wrote:
    in Virqenque's case I will. It annoys me that the french constantly badger LA, yet for some reason they put this guy on a pedastal, when he was one of the heaviest users in the Festina team.
    This really isn't the case, Virenque is widely seen as a plonker in France. Everyone knows he cheated and in the end, he was exposed. Yes there are still people who venerate him but they're in the minority. Apparently to deny something extremely obvious these days is "to do a Virenque".

    These days he appears on reality TV and for a while he was on the French version of Spitting Image (on every evening I believe) as a running gag. I can't find a good quality video but watch this quick click and the way the laughter erupts as soon as Virenque appears.
  • sampras38
    sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    Kléber wrote:
    sampras38 wrote:
    in Virqenque's case I will. It annoys me that the french constantly badger LA, yet for some reason they put this guy on a pedastal, when he was one of the heaviest users in the Festina team.
    This really isn't the case, Virenque is widely seen as a plonker in France. Everyone knows he cheated and in the end, he was exposed. Yes there are still people who venerate him but they're in the minority. Apparently to deny something extremely obvious these days is "to do a Virenque".

    These days he appears on reality TV and for a while he was on the French version of Spitting Image (on every evening I believe) as a running gag. I can't find a good quality video but watch this quick click and the way the laughter erupts as soon as Virenque appears.

    Ahh, I wasn't aware of that.

    Fair enough...
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Sorry I forgot the video:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 921376149#

    (see the other videos on the page for similar stuff)
  • sampras38
    sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    Kléber wrote:
    Sorry I forgot the video:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 921376149#

    (see the other videos on the page for similar stuff)

    Brill...

    thanks.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Can anyone give me more information on Claudio Chiapucci (aslo known as Il Diablo, Chiappa, Monzon and more) or some good photos or videos to demonstrate his prowess? I have seen and read little of him but after reading a few things recently, I would like to know more.
    For me it is a passion. When I stop, I will be proud to have served and glorified the sport of bicycle racing
    Contador is the Greatest
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Can anyone give me more information on Claudio Chiapucci (aslo known as Il Diablo, Chiappa, Monzon and more) or some good photos or videos to demonstrate his prowess? I have seen and read little of him but after reading a few things recently, I would like to know more.
    For me it is a passion. When I stop, I will be proud to have served and glorified the sport of bicycle racing

    .do you really want to know about Claudio Chiapucci and what it was that gave him his prowess ?
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • Garry H
    Garry H Posts: 6,639
    Moray Gub wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Can anyone give me more information on Claudio Chiapucci (aslo known as Il Diablo, Chiappa, Monzon and more) or some good photos or videos to demonstrate his prowess? I have seen and read little of him but after reading a few things recently, I would like to know more.
    For me it is a passion. When I stop, I will be proud to have served and glorified the sport of bicycle racing

    .do you really want to know about Claudio Chiapucci and what it was that gave him his prowess ?

    Donkey to thoroughbred, then back to a donkey. All in the space of about 4 years. His results are usually preceded by the word "surprising". Not much else to know. Won M-SR and San Sebastian (I think). Second in Tour to Lemond.

    Edit. Search for stage 13 of 92 Tour. Was glued to the screen at the time. Probably one of the best stages I've ever seen.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,264
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Can anyone give me more information on Claudio Chiapucci (aslo known as Il Diablo, Chiappa, Monzon and more) or some good photos or videos to demonstrate his prowess? I have seen and read little of him but after reading a few things recently, I would like to know more.
    For me it is a passion. When I stop, I will be proud to have served and glorified the sport of bicycle racing

    Things I know about Chiappucci (double p):

    1. He was in a ten minute break on stage 1 of the 1990 Tour with Bauer, Pensec and Massen. He had the Yellow Jersey after Pensec and Bauer and on a stage when LeMond was expected to claim it, CC went on the attack (and I think he kept the jersey by about 5 seconds)

    2. During World War 2, his dad was mates with Fausto Coppi in a British POW camp

    3. His ride to Sestriere (sp?) in 1992 is seen as one of the early examples of EPO use. It was also an early use of a heart rate monitor in a race.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,578
    Chiappucci had the heart of a lion, the tactical sense of a giraffe and a well stocked medicine chest.
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    andyp wrote:
    Chiappucci had the heart of a lion, the tactical sense of a giraffe and a well stocked medicine chest.

    Summed up pretty nicely there. He did do that ride to Sestriere in the '92 Tour though, so I'll let him off.

    He was a briefly burning, mountain specialist version of Jacky Durand.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Chiapucci would bunny hop the white line marking the KoM competition on top of each hill. As others say, he was one of the first riders to be linked to EPO abuse and Dr Ferrari, although I recall the Italian said he only met Ferrari to get some "throat lozenges". :lol:

    He was one of the few riders to challenge Indurain but the Spaniard's top spot in the Tour de France was never in doubt. A typical Italian, he was known for his fleet of fast cars and was nicknamed "Il Diablo", or the Devil.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Kléber wrote:
    Chiapucci would bunny hop the white line marking the KoM competition on top of each hill.

    Haha, that is pretty cool. He was a Tifosi's man as far as I can tell which is a quality I admire.

    Thanks for the comments. I will check that 92 stage out soon.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    He wasn't a pure climber though, he had an attacking instinct - but so would you if you were loaded on EPO - and when Pantani arrived on the Carrera team the difference in riding styles was obvious. Ultimately Chiapucci was outshone by Pantani.
  • Dgh
    Dgh Posts: 180
    Pantani was a climber, but am I the only one who finds the notion of him being "pure" ironic :roll: ?

    People talk about Van Impe being a moaner, but I did here him describe one rider as being very classy. Any guesses who?

    Greg LeMond.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Yes I read that quote yesterday and was quite surprised. With regard to Pure Climbers, it has nothing to do with not doping.
    Contador is the Greatest

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