Pure Climbers

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  • paulcuthbert
    paulcuthbert Posts: 1,016
    Sastre is a pure climber...
    The most painful climb in Northern Ireland http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs200.snc1/6776_124247198694_548863694_2335754_8016178_n.jpg
  • Le Commentateur
    Le Commentateur Posts: 4,099
    Who would you consider to be a pure climber...

    Nowadays... an amateur. Or, implausibly IMO, a young pro who is somehow so talented and has had success so quickly they haven't had to analyse what they are doing.
    Un uomo solo al commando
  • sonny73
    sonny73 Posts: 2,203
    Sorry, came to this thread late:
    Contador is the real deal IMO, the fact that he has to be held back from attacking says to me that he is not purely a numbers man and that he goes on feel and also the look of opponents; also the way he dances on the pedals is fantastic to watch.

    I also couldn't agree more about him on the Angliru last year. Like with all great athletes there is the element of making the hard look easy, which he does at times and that can never purely be seated in number crunching.

    I also read a good interview with Dan Martin and how he likes to go on feel, have to say it was a real shame he couldn’t ride the Tour, as it would have been great to see him have a pop in the mountains.

    Have to also agree with Sastre, despite his poor Tour...
  • Meds1962
    Meds1962 Posts: 391
    In the context of 3 week tours I don't think any of the contenders are 'pure' climbers in the Van Impe / Robert Millar mould any more as they are sacrificing a degree of outright climbing performance to be competitive in the time trials. Even Carlos Sastre time trialled well enough in the 08 tour to defend his gain on alpe d'huez against Cadel Evans who should theoretically have taken time back on the final tt but in fact lost more.

    Maybe Andy Schleck is the exception at present but he has no choice but to follow the same tactics otherwise he'll always struggle against Contador.
    O na bawn i fel LA
  • SunWuKong
    SunWuKong Posts: 364
    lfcquin wrote:
    Does anyone else rate Luis Herrera? I remember just when I was getting into cycling in my early teens, this guy blew me away. He was my first proper cycling idol. I thought he was awesome! Probably because he was the first rider I saw who shreaded the mountains.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtmildyQ8CI

    He has definately got to be up there in the true climber category, probably wouldn't get the most points for style, but for pure guts, effort and speed he was amazing.

    Definitely my favourite climber. I remember watching his first tour as a youth and the commentator thinking he was struggling at the back of the select group and boom he went flying off the front.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    “When I saw riders with fat asses climbing like aeroplanes, that’s when I knew,” said Colombian climber Luis Herrera.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • sonny73
    sonny73 Posts: 2,203
    Have to add I am a big Soler fan too, don't get me wrong he's no way the best climber around at present (yet?) but I like his lumbering style and attacking spirit and there is something a bit old school about him, or maybe that's just me talking sh*te? :?
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    No I like Soler too, if only for his attacking side as you say...I don't much like his position on the bike though.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • lfcquin
    lfcquin Posts: 470
    frenchfighter wrote:
    “When I saw riders with fat asses climbing like aeroplanes, that’s when I knew,” said Colombian climber Luis Herrera.

    Never heard that quote before. Thanks Frenchfighter. Made my evening. :D
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Simoni is/was a pure climber too, I would argue. Bags of style, panache to burn and has the mardy streak of small men everywhere. My absolute favourite rider.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Federico Ezquerra.

    What a wonderful photo from 1934 Tour. And look at that leg!!

    He was first to reach the top of the Télégraphe and the Galibier in this stage.

    SPAARNESTAD PHOTO/Het Leven

    3675431792_9d875f31af_o.jpg
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Echo et les Boniments
    Echo et les Boniments Posts: 142
    I'm surprised there's hardly any mention of Riccardo Riccò. Well, hum, actually I'm not surprised ( OK, OK I know, that wee rogant bastid's one nasty little cheat, blah blah blah, let's hang him from his balls and skin him alive... but then again, wasn't Pantani doing the same things?) To me, as far as today's pure climbers are concerned, Riccò rules, he is/was everything a pure climber should be, explosive, cocky, unpredictable, spectacular... A treat to watch.
  • victorponf
    victorponf Posts: 1,187
    Ezequiel Mosquera is a pure climber
    If you like Flandes, Roubaix or Eroica, you would like GP Canal de Castilla, www.gpcanaldecastilla.com
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    victorponf wrote:
    Ezequiel Mosquera is a pure climber

    I'm not familiar with this cavalier - can you give some info on why he is a pure climber?
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Does anyone remember well seeing Van Impe work his mountain magic? I wasn't around then but the more I read, the more I wish I could have seen him. Has anyone got some good clips of him?

    Listen to this class: aparently after winning 6 KOM jerseys he didn't want to win another as he didn't want to better his childhood hero Bahamontes. When Virenque got seven he was very upset.

    The following interesting comments are taken from Cycle Sport:
    Q. Who would win a mountain tt in a modern Tour?
    VI. Now, Contador; a few years ago, Armstrong was the best.

    Q. Do you think Lance was one of the best climers?
    VI. He was when he won his Tours. He wasn't a real climber, although he had the high cadence and acceleratio of a real climber. His style was a little bit jerky. He didn't pedal exactly in smooth circles.

    Q. You use the words 'real climber' a lot. Can you explain them?
    VI. Yes, a real climber is one like me - a rider who has climbing as his only weapon, so he polishes it and perfects it. They are few and far between nowadays because the Tour routes haven't been right for them to succeed. For a real climber to win the Tour you need a big day in the mountains, four or five major climbs, and you have to attack early. Marco Pantani was the last to do that.

    Q. Is Contador a real climber?
    VI. Yes, in a way. He has the coup de pedale, which is what I call the smooth high-cadence pedalling that is the best way to climb, and the acceleration, but he is good in a time trial so it isn't his only weapon. He is the most devasting rider uphill today, that is certain.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,731
    frenchfighter wrote:
    victorponf wrote:
    Ezequiel Mosquera is a pure climber

    I'm not familiar with this cavalier - can you give some info on why he is a pure climber?

    Last 3 Vueltas? Twice 5th, once 4th in the GC and he can't ITT for ****. :wink:
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,630
    When I first started out cycling my dream was to win the polka dot jersey rather than the yellow (not very realistic at the best of times let alone for someone over 6' tall :lol: ). Since then the modern style of tour riding seems to have killed off pure climbers. Contador may well be one but at the same time he has to control the impulses of pure climbers to win the GC. Even the KoM winners don't appear to be pure climbers anymore, the day long break through a major mountain stage just doesn't happen very often. Pantani was the last pure climber in my opinion but is obviously tainted - his win came on the back of his climbing (and the absence of any serious contender), Chiappucci was my favourite though - always managed to get Lemond to struggle in the hills but couldn't make it pay in the TT.
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Does anyone remember well seeing Van Impe work his mountain magic? I wasn't around then but the more I read, the more I wish I could have seen him. Has anyone got some good clips of him?

    Listen to this class: aparently after winning 6 KOM jerseys he didn't want to win another as he didn't want to better his childhood hero Bahamontes. When Virenque got seven he was very upset.

    The following interesting comments are taken from Cycle Sport:
    Q. Who would win a mountain tt in a modern Tour?
    VI. Now, Contador; a few years ago, Armstrong was the best.

    Q. Do you think Lance was one of the best climers?
    VI. He was when he won his Tours. He wasn't a real climber, although he had the high cadence and acceleratio of a real climber. His style was a little bit jerky. He didn't pedal exactly in smooth circles.

    Q. You use the words 'real climber' a lot. Can you explain them?
    VI. Yes, a real climber is one like me - a rider who has climbing as his only weapon, so he polishes it and perfects it. They are few and far between nowadays because the Tour routes haven't been right for them to succeed. For a real climber to win the Tour you need a big day in the mountains, four or five major climbs, and you have to attack early. Marco Pantani was the last to do that.

    Q. Is Contador a real climber?
    VI. Yes, in a way. He has the coup de pedale, which is what I call the smooth high-cadence pedalling that is the best way to climb, and the acceleration, but he is good in a time trial so it isn't his only weapon. He is the most devasting rider uphill today, that is certain.

    To be fair to Virenque, Lucian van Impe is, as I have noted before, the cycling equivilent of Monty Python's Four Yorkshiremen. Nothing is ever as good/hard/worthwhile as it was back in his day... tha knows.

    He was ace to watch though, i'm sure there's some good stuff of his on youtube. Incidentally, he has naturally curly hair, when he grew it out a bit, his nickname became "The Woman" amongst the renowned wits of the Peloton.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    edited February 2010
    José Manuel Fuente

    2 Vuelta overalls
    4 Giro Mountains Classifications

    Real climbers attack from the base. I'm hoping Andy and Contador can do so this year.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8p-wDm5Wbc

    fuente-def..jpg
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    edited February 2010
    At the Tour DuPont in the US many years back:
    Just before the biggest climb, we dropped behind Theirry Claveyrolat, a lean French pro who'd won the KOM twice in le Dauphine and once in the Tour.

    The road bent skyward and our automatic transmission dropped down a gear. Claveyrolat popped out of the saddle, dipped his bike from side to side in an elegant dance, then sat back down and spun his pedals.

    "Twenty-two," announced the European driver, "Not bad." Not at all I figured. Twenty-two kilometres must be something like thirteen or fourteen miles per hour on this hellish ascent. Then the driver said,

    "Twenty-four...no, twenty-five miles an hour."

    Theirry Claveyrolat, I bow to you.

    L'Aigle de Vizille

    clav.jpg

    Courtesy Emile Arbes
    1233744435GGPT7B9VVW_1778_R_T.Claveyrolat_MERAL_87.jpg

    Like a fair few pure climbers, he took his own life at age 40.

    There is a very interesting and well written article in one Rouleur about climbers and I must post some quotes from there when I have time.

    There are some superb old videos...I wasn't old enough to watch this kind of stuff but it really is wonderful to see:
    Joux Plane in the rain after 237km. Theirry with a 44 tooth small ring!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gQKA4QuzbM
    - See when one of the Colombian climbers takes his mussette, seconds later discards it then attacks the others!!
    Contador is the Greatest
  • SunWuKong
    SunWuKong Posts: 364
    Luis (Lucho) Herrera (El Jardinerito) is my favourite climber, mostly down to be South American (like me) and was in the tour around the time I started watching cycling on tv.

    From what I read it would be great to have watched Bahamontes.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    edited February 2010
    Sun have you got a good video which shows off his skills?
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    In a great article in the latest CycleSport with D Millar and M Barry, there is a quote from Millar about Contador. It is a really great one concerning his attack from 100km out in the last stage of Paris Nice. I'll post it up when I have a moment.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Here is the quote by David Millar. Pure Class. True climber riding on feeling with old school panache. Admirable rider.
    When you watch a race you want to believe that riders can stay away in a break. That is what is exciting.
    It does still happen, like with Contador in the last stage of Paris Nice [2009]. He'd been humiliated the day before. He got the hunger knock and blew his nuts off. Lost the jersey and was lying 3rd or 4th. Tradegy.

    I said, 'Watch Alberto go tomorrow.' First mountain. Nobody believed me. I said, 'He will, he will - it's Alberto.'

    First mountain, he went, from the bottom. That's old school. His team didn't set him up, he just went. There were still 100km to go. He attacked the whole peloton. And he was still away at the end, four riders.

    Highlights:
    http://live.sporza.be/cm/lmc/wielrennen ... /1.481850#

    610x-7.jpg
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    SunWuKong wrote:
    Luis (Lucho) Herrera (El Jardinerito) is my favourite climber.

    Just read something from him:
    Lucho Herrera, perhaps a classic example of a pure climber, liked to say that he knew when the serious doping started in the peloton because the riders with “fat arses” were climbing like “aeroplanes”

    An uphill TT is supposedly the perfect situation for a pure climber to shine as they don't have to worry at all about wasting lots of energy on the flats keeping up and staying out of trouble before the climb.

    If this was the case then we should uphill TTs riddled with pure climbers yet as this isn't the case, it has been given as evidence that epo is/was rife.

    See here for a classic example:
    http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/200 ... ts/stage16
    Contador is the Greatest
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Two points.

    The mountain TT you quote above came towards the end of the race - it is widely acknowledged that recovery plays a part in these and that the GC riders are "selected" to do well as they recover better over a 3 week GT. Strategy also comes into play, with "pure climber" teammates holding back to help their leaders in following stages (the next day was an multi-col stage into Le Grand Bornand). There is no need to go vollgas in a TT if you are not in contention. There is also the fact that, e.g. Virenque (and other riders in contention for the polka dot jersey) was saving himself to get in the break the next day and try to seal the jersey.

    Secondly, if you are going to start playing the doping card you ought to revise the "heroes" in your sig line.

    Perhaps I should start a "Pure time triallers" thread and we'll see how many 62 kg climbers turn up in it.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    You make fair points about that specific TT.

    Be my guest and start a TT thread. It will make a nice change to discuss something different.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    I don't wish to. I was simply pointing out that you are on dangerous ground to start talking about doping, given your adulation of a 62 kg climber who can lay waste to people like Cancellara in flat TTs.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • Arkibal
    Arkibal Posts: 850
    DaveyL wrote:
    I don't wish to. I was simply pointing out that you are on dangerous ground to start talking about doping, given your adulation of a 62 kg climber who can lay waste to people like Cancellara in flat TTs.

    When has this happened?
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Paris-Nice prologue last year. Annecy TT at the TdF last year.
    Le Blaireau (1)

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