Lemond at Play the Game conference
He presented today
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_s ... 091684.stm
I guess they'll have a PDF or something of his presentation on the site soon. Last year was great with Bella Jorg and the comic genius that is Pat McQuaid attending.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_s ... 091684.stm
I guess they'll have a PDF or something of his presentation on the site soon. Last year was great with Bella Jorg and the comic genius that is Pat McQuaid attending.
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
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The on-demand streaming of his presentation should be up in a day or so.
http://www.playthegame.org/conferences/ ... aming.html
Of related interest:
SPORTS WRITERS are “too frightened to challenge the authorities”, according to author and sports journalist David Goldblatt in an exclusive interview with CU Today’s Greg Keane at the 2009 Play the Game conference in Coventry today.
Sports reporting today lacks a “critical edge”, he says, with the number of journalists writing on serious and difficult issues being just too small.
“They like their comfortable existence – they like access to the people they are writing about and the authorities both commercially and political are completely ruthless and they’ll take those things away from you if you rock the boat”.
...We need to have sport editors, both in broadcast media and in the print media who’ve got the balls to back up their journalists when they’re taking on these people
http://cutoday.wordpress.com/2009/06/08/test/
So, let's have more people following the example set by the likes of Walsh and Kimmage!0 -
I think that the correct spelling of 'twisted BS' is 'the truth'....rockmount wrote:
Yeah ... we need a load more twisted BS !aurelio wrote:So, let's have more people following the example set by the likes of Walsh and Kimmage!
http://www.playthegame.org/upload/magaz ... e07pg7.pdf0 -
aurelio wrote:
So, let's have more people following the example set by the likes of Walsh and Kimmage!
Just what we need. More people attaching themselves to the shirttails of celebrities.
This has given us many great literary moments, too numerous to mention. I think The Daily Mail is one example. If I have my names right?0 -
I think that the phrase you were looking for is 'Just what we need, more quality investigative journalism'. As to where that sort of thing leads, here is one example you might have heard of:dennisn wrote:Just what we need. More people attaching themselves to the shirttails of celebrities. This has given us many great literary moments, too numerous to mention.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/po ... watergate/
There is plenty of further comment on the subject out there. The following somehow seems to reflect much of what you say. Perhaps you politics are showing again...
...the Republican President, Teddy Roosevelt, turned the tables on the investigative journalists who had exposed the underside of American capitalism. He labelled them muckrakers, who were only concerned with digging up dirt.
http://phil-simms.blogspot.com/2006/10/ ... enemy.html
A few other names that spring to mind which you might like to look up include George Seldes, Upton Sinclair, Edward Murrow, Ralph Nader, George Orwell, John Pilger...0 -
dennisn wrote:Just what we need. More people attaching themselves to the shirttails of celebrities.
This has given us many great literary moments, too numerous to mention. I think The Daily Mail is one example. If I have my names right?
You have got to be joking? You must have no idea who those guys are. I'd suggest a bit of research before spouting off any more nonsense0 -
The on-demand stream is now up. He has just said that he will effectively be taking Armstrong to litigation over the Trek affair... 'it's basically going to be a litigation against another American Tour de France rider'...
Go Greg!0 -
Lemond on Ferrari. '...I realised talking to this physiologist friend of mine... this guy's a haemotologist and it's really not about the training.'0
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diarmuid wrote:dennisn wrote:Just what we need. More people attaching themselves to the shirttails of celebrities.
This has given us many great literary moments, too numerous to mention. I think The Daily Mail is one example. If I have my names right?
You have got to be joking? You must have no idea who those guys are. I'd suggest a bit of research before spouting off any more nonsense
What are you saying? That these writers are NOT "attaching themselves to the shirttails........"? They grab on for the ride and when it's over they grab onto some other
celeb., until that one has run his / her course. People pay to read about it and some take
it all as gospel. This type of thing has been going on for many years. Who are you talking about when you say I "have no idea who these guys are"? I don't follow.0 -
He pulls no punches about the UCI either! He has also mentioned Sylvia Schenk's resignation from the UCI over the unconstitutional appointment of McQuaid.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/riders/2005/ ... _schenk05a0 -
That's the truest thing you have ever said whilst on this forum...dennisn wrote:I don't follow.0 -
Lemond his just told about how he played a central part in the decision of the Tour organisers to split with the UCI in 2008, with the intention of setting up a new dope testing regime independent to that of the UCI. He has also confirmed that the new cosy relationship between the ASO and the UCI - and the sacking of of Patrice Clerc - was the direct result of Armstrong's decision to ride the Tour again...0
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He talks about what a load of nonsense the claims of the likes of Landis are that they are the victims of French 'Anti Americanism', saying that when it comes to racing the French are the most sportsmanlike and balanced country in Europe, having the attitude that all that matters is that 'the best man wins'. He says that the real problem is obnoxious Americans who have the attitiude that the French should 'bend over' because they think the USA saved France in WWII.
Tell it like it is Greg!0 -
He says that his fight against doping has left him worn him out and is burning him out, and by the way he looks he is not kidding.
Final question. 'Will Lance Armstrong ever come clean'.
Lemond: 'Him, no way, absolutely not. He has no conscience'.0 -
diarmuid wrote:
Like I said, your time would be better spent acquainting yourself with Kimmage and Walsh's work than with posting any more ill-informed remarks.dennisn wrote:What are you saying? That these writers are NOT "attaching themselves to the shirttails........"?
Are they or are they not writting about celeb's.? Are they or are they not doing it for the money? Are they or are they not making a dollar off someones ELSE'S name? Would anyone read a book about either of them? Probably not unless it had bunches of scandal in it. Do you not think that they know what sells and what doesn't? Do you think this might have a bearing on what they write about? I tend to believe both of them know what sells.
Am I interested in reading their books? Not in the least. I really don't give a damn about the scandals or whatever of Lance, Marilyn Monroe, Princess Di, John Kennedy, and the like.
All I know is that there are plenty of "journalist's" out there "riding on these peoples shirttails" and more than enough people willing to buy whatever they write as long as it's "juicy".0 -
We seem to have a fair dose of blinkered apologists on here for what has gone before, thereby ensuring the continuance of this pleasure sapping "sport". "Doctor , doctor , it's a boy", "Oh Shoight, he was a girl when the race started". "Didn't Dick said he put a pound on meat going vegetarian, what odds did he get". "Very".
Before I digress, does any one want to come along for the spin, blood included.0 -
dennisn wrote:diarmuid wrote:
Like I said, your time would be better spent acquainting yourself with Kimmage and Walsh's work than with posting any more ill-informed remarks.dennisn wrote:What are you saying? That these writers are NOT "attaching themselves to the shirttails........"?
Are they or are they not writting about celeb's.? Are they or are they not doing it for the money? Are they or are they not making a dollar off someones ELSE'S name? Would anyone read a book about either of them? Probably not unless it had bunches of scandal in it. Do you not think that they know what sells and what doesn't? Do you think this might have a bearing on what they write about? I tend to believe both of them know what sells.
Am I interested in reading their books? Not in the least. I really don't give a damn about the scandals or whatever of Lance, Marilyn Monroe, Princess Di, John Kennedy, and the like.
All I know is that there are plenty of "journalist's" out there "riding on these peoples shirttails" and more than enough people willing to buy whatever they write as long as it's "juicy".
Due to the average human foot count sandals now come in pairs. I hope this helps
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dennisn wrote:This has given us many great literary moments, too numerous to mention. I think The Daily Mail is one example. If I have my names right?
By your own admission you know nothing about the work of these guys. So why not just save your opinions for things you actually have some knowledge of?
There is a vast difference between the Daily Mail and the Sunday Times. Even the briefest of internet searches would have given you a snippet of accurate information to use within your argument.Scottish and British...and a bit French0 -
aurelio wrote:
I think that the phrase you were looking for is 'Just what we need, more quality investigative journalism'. As to where that sort of thing leads, here is one example you might have heard of:dennisn wrote:Just what we need. More people attaching themselves to the shirttails of celebrities. This has given us many great literary moments, too numerous to mention.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/po ... watergate/
There is plenty of further comment on the subject out there. The following somehow seems to reflect much of what you say. Perhaps you politics are showing again...
...the Republican President, Teddy Roosevelt, turned the tables on the investigative journalists who had exposed the underside of American capitalism. He labelled them muckrakers, who were only concerned with digging up dirt.
http://phil-simms.blogspot.com/2006/10/ ... enemy.html
A few other names that spring to mind which you might like to look up include George Seldes, Upton Sinclair, Edward Murrow, Ralph Nader, George Orwell, John Pilger...
There's a good reason there's not more serious investigative journalism: cost. It's hideously expensive and has very little revenue in it.
As far as I know Kimmage is The Sunday Times Chief Sports Interviewer and as such writes about all sports, not just cycling. His primary work on doping is and has been his own testimony in Rough Ride. Didn't he admit he called Bernard Kohl wrong last year?
Likewise Walsh is employed by The Sunday Times as a Sports Writer. His books have been supported and published by Random House, one of the biggest and most powerful publishing houses in the world. His journalism is, by his own admission, open ended.
Both backed by some of the most powerful and wealthy publishing organisations in the world.
Watergate wasn't good investigative journalism, it was good basic journalism. They nailed down provable facts and details which couldn't be controverted - dates, times, specific events witnessed in provable fashion. That's what most journalists do because that's how you make a living as a journalist, just because they are obliged to abide by the law doesn't mean they aren't researching and following the stories you want to read. They are, they just can't publish them because it would probably cost too much to defend them.
You cite a bunch of star reporters, who are given free rein by their editors. Very few journalists get that opportunity because their name isn't bankable.
Orwell and Pilger, both tend towards the partisan, a fair and accurate observation of them. Pilger: supporter of Chavez, a man who has ruthlessly destroyed freedom of the press.0 -
I don't think cycling needs full investigative journalists, just journalists. Too many sports reporters seem sucked into the "star system" and are pals with the riders. Tough questions are rare, it's all about access and pretending the show is healthy. A lot of reporting borders corporate PR, you can often tell when press releases have been copied and pasted, cyclingnews.com included.0
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I didn't think that talk from Lemond was particularly informative. I'm guessing coz of the court case an'that that he can't really say much. He deffo looks worn out by it all, and its sad, coz he can tend to come across and bit of a doddery old dude sometimes.
He' still my number 1 hero and i still support his cause for a cleaner sport!0 -
yea the talk was a bit rambling but with some very interesting nuggets thrown in. He's definitely correct about the ASO/UCI hopping into bed together. I think ASO have decided to run with the money and fcuk the credibility.
It was funny to see him say that after the talk he was probably going to hear from McQuaid's lawyer again.0 -
Kléber wrote:I don't think cycling needs full investigative journalists, just journalists. Too many sports reporters seem sucked into the "star system" and are pals with the riders. Tough questions are rare, it's all about access and pretending the show is healthy. A lot of reporting borders corporate PR, you can often tell when press releases have been copied and pasted, cyclingnews.com included.
The problem is that asking difficult questions or putting allegations into publication is much tougher in cycling than people think. For example I know that it looks like a recent positive test has been known about for a while by some journalists before it was made public by officials. It's difficult and dangerous to pre-empt that point of it being made official without the attendant risk of it turning out to be another of the hundred or so rumours and tips you get every day.
Even reporting something like Valverde is a bit of a minefield. All you can really do is state the facts as they stand: he is banned from racing in Italy for 2 years as a result of an investigation which linked him to a Spanish blood doping ring. Say anything more and your editor's going to get a migraine and you're into the territory of hearsay.
I totally agree that PR-led journalism is to the detriment of everyone but as I said: reporting costs and not many publications can afford to send their own person to every race - even Eurosport commentary isn't necessarily done from the finish line.0 -
the last question and the direct answer had me falling off the seating laughing.
Question: "do you think Lance Armstrong will ever come clean?"
Lemond: (with a look of bemusement) "no way, he has no conscience"
Lemond you are the 500 watt legend.
If you can’t get up the Cols in the Tour on the front whilst talking into the microphone to the DS in the car, then it can’t be done!!!0 -
aurelio wrote:He says that the real problem is obnoxious Americans who have the attitiude that the French should 'bend over' because they think the USA saved France in WWII.
Tell it like it is Greg!
Let's see now. I seem to recall seeing film of huge swastikas hanging in Paris and Hitler
surveying the scene while his armies marched through the streets. I suppose you could
interpret that as the French being able to defend their country. The Maginot Line was quite a success and Fort Eben-Emael held out for a whole day and a half. Without the US, England, Russia, and the rest you might, still be seeing those swastikas.
Tell it like it is Greg? I think my father might have a different opinion and as far as I'm concerned that's the one that matters. I don't recall Greg being there on D-Day and slogging throught the Fench countryside to help free a nation. To top it all off I know no one, repeat, no one who wants the French to "bend over". I guess if Greg says he does, according to you, then he must know a few, but I don't.0 -
great seeing Greg blast em...reading between the lines he says he has been anihilated-I take it to mean broke-hope not. I couldn't help but think he'd had a heavy night the previous night or or so...agree with everything he says, hope he beats trek. I f forced to chose, I'd like to see him in the sport and Armstrong gone0
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:roll: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_lawdennisn wrote:Let's see now. I seem to recall seeing film of huge swastikas hanging in Paris and Hitler surveying the scene0
