BNP MEP voted in.

robmanic1

I believe in father Christmas

on the road

I believe this thread has gone off on a tangent

robmanic1

I believe you're right, but a better one

passout

I believe in miracles (you sexy thang).

It certainly is an interesting time in politics. I think Al Quaeda (if thats how you spell it) wanted to cause turmoil and worsten race relations ins in the UK through 7th July bombings - they'll love seeing the BNP in power. Strange how a few corrupt bankers and politcians ended up doing a much 'better' job at this than the suicide bombers!

OffTheBackAdam

Put it all down to the voting system.
Proportional Representation gives such trash parties as BNP And Greens a voice, where the vast majority of voting people care nothing for their bizzare ideas.
It produces unstable governments, where such parties hold the balance of power and achieve status way above what they should do.
Unfortunately, racism is pretty rife in all stratas of society and in all races too!
The lower the socio-economic classes, the more prevalent it becomes.

Frank the tank

I think there may well be a rise in nationalism throughout europe, not just GB.

World wide over the centuries untold millions have died endevouring to establish borders and protect them. So, when people see there own lands and national interest seemingly userped by "foriegners" they will get pi**ed off. People cannot be made to accept others if they don't want to accept them.

Within europe we have the privilage of the ballot box so these fringe parties can voice their displeasure at what the feel is wrong. If they were to be barred from standing or outlawed what options would that leave them? The bullet and the bomb?

Not good.

passout

Some bloke on the telly said that in tough economic times people 'tend' to vote for 'tougher people' and at this moment in time I guess that means centre right as opposed to centre left. Not sure how true it is but it does kinda make sense. I don't necessarily think that this fully explains the success of the BNP though. The issue of immigration has been bubbling away for a good long while.

I'm just embarrassed that the North West voted that racist idiot in if I'm honest.

DIRTY RIDER 13

i say all the best to the bnp they deserve it :twisted:

on the road

You mean they deserve what's coming to them?

finchy

OffTheBackAdam wrote:

Proportional Representation gives such trash parties as BNP And Greens a voice, where the vast majority of voting people care nothing for their bizzare ideas.

Er, what's wrong with the Greens exactly? I can't see too many other parties out there who recognise that the Earth has finite resources and we need to use them sensibly. Or is that a bizarre idea?

passout

Yes the greens are great when it comes to the Environment! It's just everything else that worries me....the economy, wealth creation, security, education,foreign diplomacy etc. They wouldn't have a clue if they got into power, at least not as they stand presently, maybe they'll mature though?

mmitchell88

johnfinch wrote:

OffTheBackAdam wrote:

Proportional Representation gives such trash parties as BNP And Greens a voice, where the vast majority of voting people care nothing for their bizzare ideas.

Er, what's wrong with the Greens exactly? I can't see too many other parties out there who recognise that the Earth has finite resources and we need to use them sensibly. Or is that a bizarre idea?

Not a bizarre idea at all. However, if there's a sticking point for me, it's the following (taken from the Green EU 2009 Manifesto):

"...We will also work in the EU for:
An immediate halt to xenotransplantation, genetic manipulation and cloning of animals;
An immediate ban on the harmful use of animals (including but not only primates) in research, testing and education;..."

http://www.greenparty.org.uk/assets/files/EU_Manifesto_2009.pdf

don key

Scum, you win. Scum, you lose.

Swings and roundabouts.

Don't ever mistake these people for anything other than what they are.

Thugs, with small minds and big hate filled egos.

redddraggon

don key wrote:

Scum, you win. Scum, you lose.

Swings and roundabouts.

Don't ever mistake these people for anything other than what they are.

Thugs, with small minds and big hate filled egos.

To be honest I have a disregard for all politicians. The general impression I've always got is that they are doing it for themselves rather than for any notion of service to the country.

guilliano

As with any job all politicians want to keep their direct superiors (ministers/party leaders/whips) happy first. They are certainly not there to represent their constituents in most cases.

beverick

mmitchell88 wrote:

"...We will also work in the EU for:
An immediate ban on the harmful use of animals ....in education;..."

http://www.greenparty.org.uk/assets/files/EU_Manifesto_2009.pdf

Does that mean the guard dog's would have to be stood down at the local comp?

Bob

finchy

passout wrote:

Yes the greens are great when it comes to the Environment! It's just everything else that worries me....the economy, wealth creation, security, education,foreign diplomacy etc. They wouldn't have a clue if they got into power, at least not as they stand presently, maybe they'll mature though?

Of course they would have to come up slowly and learn the ropes, they wouldn't just be able to win an election from a point of having no MPs - even I wouldn't want that!

For education, the economy and foreign affairs, I really can't see how they could do any worse than Labour or the Tories to be honest.

teagar

OffTheBackAdam wrote:

Put it all down to the voting system.
Proportional Representation gives such trash parties as BNP And Greens a voice, where the vast majority of voting people care nothing for their bizzare ideas.
It produces unstable governments, where such parties hold the balance of power and achieve status way above what they should do.
Unfortunately, racism is pretty rife in all stratas of society and in all races too!
The lower the socio-economic classes, the more prevalent it becomes.

I'd probably put it down to the people who voted BNP. :roll:

Countries with PR function just as well as countries who don't.

What I find bizzare is that a party can achieve well over half the vote share and still not win an election.

I do find your snobby "lower classes are more racist" attitude pretty laughable though.

passout

In fairness the BNP has aimed it's policies at the white working classes (depending on how you define working class) & we shouldn't avoid the reality of the situation. The BNP does have a base of support/sympathy, often from whites in multi-cultural (or bi-cultural) parts of the country. The results clearly show that. That said, I think that it is very unfair & unhelpful to blame any social group for voting them in. Especially as the vast majority of working class people did not vote BNP.

cee

Crapaud wrote:

cee wrote:

...Athesim is faith in the absolute fact that there is no god...

A common misunderstanding. Facts are facts! One doesn't require faith in something that's an absolute; it either is or it isn't. Faith is where one believes something is fact, but where there is no evidence to support it.

Atheism isn't a belief that there is no deity, it's a disbelief that there is.

same difference.....

dictionary definition of atheism is...

–noun
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

i will concede that my choice of word fact was poor.

passout

Crapaud - your position assumes that there is such a thing as an absolute. You assume that what your senses tell you is accurate and indeed that this world exists outside of your own mind. You are taking a very scientific / Positivist view. I think that an Athiest needs as much 'faith', conviction or whatever word you choose as a believer does. An Agnostic is a different matter. Personally I too take a similar view but it is no more valid in a Theological or Philosophical discussion than many others.

Anyway, what's this got to do with the BNP?

teagar

passout wrote:

Crapaud - your position assumes that there is such a thing as an absolute. You assume that what your senses tell you is accurate and indeed that this world exists outside of your own mind. You are taking a very scientific / Positivist view. I think that an Athiest needs as much 'faith', conviction or whatever word you choose as a believer does. An Agnostic is a different matter. Personally I too take a similar view but it is no more valid in a Theological or Philosophical discussion than many others.

Anyway, what's this got to do with the BNP?

Discuss things hard enough and you always end up discussing epistemology!

It's the ultimate fundamental in thought, as you can imagine. 8)

Someone always claims something's a fact and some smart arse says "how do you know what a fact is?" and before you know it, you're into the realms of epistemology.

STEFANOS4784

Who cares? Oh yes, everyone on here that's why this has gotten to 8 pages :shock: :oops: :roll: :arrow:

passout

As Stefano rightly points out, much of academia just doesn't pass the 'so what?' test, interesting though.

Crapaud

passout wrote:

Crapaud - your position assumes that there is such a thing as an absolute. You assume that what your senses tell you is accurate and indeed that this world exists outside of your own mind. You are taking a very scientific / Positivist view. ...

OMG, The Matrix is the truth! Seriously, what are you on about?

passout wrote:

... I think that an Athiest needs as much 'faith', conviction or whatever word you choose as a believer does. An Agnostic is a different matter. Personally I too take a similar view but it is no more valid in a Theological or Philosophical discussion than many others. ...

I assume that you mean this in respect to a deity, Passout. An atheist does not require faith in this respect. For an atheist to need faith that there is no deity presupposes that there is a deity to not believe in. This is irrational; from the atheist's standpoint there is no deity to not believe in.

passout wrote:

... Anyway, what's this got to do with the BNP?

You'll have to ask Cee.

passout

Kinda but you have to be pretty sure to say that there definitely isn't a God, it's not as though you can prove that there isn't one.

That Cee has got a lot to answer for!

mmitchell88

teagar wrote:

passout wrote:

Crapaud - your position assumes that there is such a thing as an absolute. You assume that what your senses tell you is accurate and indeed that this world exists outside of your own mind. You are taking a very scientific / Positivist view. I think that an Athiest needs as much 'faith', conviction or whatever word you choose as a believer does. An Agnostic is a different matter. Personally I too take a similar view but it is no more valid in a Theological or Philosophical discussion than many others.

Anyway, what's this got to do with the BNP?

Discuss things hard enough and you always end up discussing epistemology!

It's the ultimate fundamental in thought, as you can imagine. 8)

Someone always claims something's a fact and some smart ars* says "how do you know what a fact is?" and before you know it, you're into the realms of epistemology.

Oh no, is it that time again? RIght, which newspapers did I miss in my 'here's what I think of newspapers' rant? Not many. Locals though - here goes...

Middlesbrough Evening Gazette - Inky tabloid which I assumed was a 'newspaper' when I was growing up, but then discovered its true role when I started reading the stuff my Dad read. Lots of classifieds for prams, stories about playing fields being used by developers, and thieves nicking kiddies' Christmas presents. My mate's father used to do the telly pages. Best bit in it, to be honest.

to bed...

guilliano

I'm an atheist. I say that because I KNOW there is no god. I will continue to know this and accept it as fact until I am proven wrong by this God appearing before me and introducing itself...... and I'll need at least 2 forms of photographic ID before I am convinced

on the road

passout wrote:

Kinda but you have to be pretty sure to say that there definitely isn't a God, it's not as though you can prove that there isn't one.

That Cee has got a lot to answer for!

You can't prove that there is one.

Crapaud

passout wrote:

Kinda ...

You didn't really understand my last post, did you Passout?

passout wrote:

but you have to be pretty sure to say that there definitely isn't a God, it's not as though you can prove that there isn't one. ...

Ontheroad's right.

passout wrote:

... That Cee has got a lot to answer for!

I hadn't realised that it was that serious!