BNP MEP voted in.

redddraggon

teagar wrote:

The term immigrant has largely, though not exclusively, become a byword for non-white, or at least, non-saxon.

I don't like Saxons either.

beverick

DavidBelcher wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

He doesn't like anyone who's not a true Yorkshireman, he's not racist because he doesn't like anyone.

Reading that put me in mind of some classic Whatever Happened To The Likely Lads? dialogue;

BOB: What do you think of the Chinese?

TERRY: Shifty...like most Orientals…

BOB: Oh well, that's a third of the world's population dealt with in a sentence! What about the Koreans?

TERRY: Koreans? Cruel.

BOB: Americans?

TERRY: Flash.

BOB: What about Britain?

TERRY: Well, I haven't got much time for the Irish or the Welsh, and the Scots are worse than the Koreans…

BOB: …and you never could stand southerners.

TERRY: To tell you the truth I don't much like anyone outside this town. And actually, there aren't many families down our street that I can stand…

David

Bob and Terry were geordies. Still the average southerner thinks everyone north of Watford looks and talks the same and has the same outlook on life........

...or am I being southernist?

Bob

pb21

I’m starting a political party. I have seen the successes (sic) of the British Nazi Party recently so have decided that the best way for me to reach power quickly is to base my party on the Framework of the BNP.

I am going to be campaigning to remove from British politics all of the fat, ugly (man they’re ugly) racists and have them sent back to where they belong. Its best to do this quickly before they start to overwhelm the system stealing all the jobs of honest (sic) politicians, sponging from the taxpayers, whilst idlely roaming around spouting their crazy beliefs and breaking all kinds of laws.

Want to join?

cheehee

The BNP represents Britain's workers? They don't even represent basic British craftsmanshipComments (1383)

Charlie Brooker
The Guardian, Monday 18 May 2009
Article history

I was born in the 70s and grew up in a tiny rural village. There was, I think, only one black kid in my primary school. One day, someone pushed him over and called him "blackjack". The headmaster called an impromptu assembly. It involved the entire school, and took place outdoors. No doubt: this was unusual.

We stood in military rows in the playground. I must have been about six, so I can't remember the words he used, but the substance stuck. He spoke with eerie, measured anger. He'd fought in the second world war, he told us. Our village had a memorial commemorating friends of his who had died. Many were relatives of ours. These villagers gave their lives fighting a regime that looked down on anyone "different", that tried to blame others for any problem they could find; a bullying, racist regime called "the Nazis". Millions of people had died thanks to their bigotry and prejudice. And he told us that anyone who picked on anyone else because they were "different' wasn't merely insulting the object of their derision, but insulting the headmaster himself, and his dead friends, and our dead relatives, the ones on the war memorial. And if he heard of anyone - anyone - using racist language again, they'd immediately get the slipper.

Corporal punishment was still alive and well, see. The slipper was his nuclear bomb.

It was the first time I was explicitly told that racism was unpleasant and it was a lesson served with a side order of patriot fries. Or rather, chips. Our headmaster had fought for his country, and for tolerance, all at once. That's what I understood it meant to be truly "British": to be polite, and civil and fair of mind. (And to occasionally wallop schoolkids with slippers, admittedly, but we'll overlook that, OK? We've moved on.)

But according to the BNP, I'm wrong. Being British is actually about feeling aggressed, mistrustful, overlooked, isolated, powerless, and petrified of "losing my identity". Britishness incorporates a propensity to look around me with jealous eyes, fuming over imaginary sums of money being doled out to child-molesting asylum-seekers by corrupt PC politicians who've lost touch with the common man - a common man who, coincidentally, happens to be white.

They're wrong, obviously. None of these qualities has anything whatsoever to do with being British, but everything to do with ugly nationalist politics. And ugly nationalist politics are popular all over the world. Just like Pringles. Every country has its own tiny enclave of frightened, disenfranchised, misguided souls clinging to their national flag, claiming they're the REAL patriots, saying everyone's out to get them. It's an international weakness. For the BNP to claim to be more British than the other British parties is as nonsensical as your dad suddenly claiming to have invented the beard.

The other day, the BNP had a political broadcast on the box. I wasn't in my beloved homeland at the time, but I heard about it, via internet chuckles of derision. Fellow geeky types tweeting about the poor production values. I looked it up on YouTube. Sure enough, it was badly made. No surprise there. Extremist material of any kind always looks gaudy and cheap, like a bad pizza menu. Not because they can't afford decent computers - these days you can knock up a professional CD cover on a pay-as-you-go mobile - but because anyone who's good at graphic design is likely to be a thoughtful, inquisitive sort by nature. And thoughtful, inquisitive sorts tend to think fascism is a bit shit, to be honest. If the BNP really were the greatest British party, they'd have the greatest British designer working for them - Jonathan Ive, perhaps, the man who designed the iPod. But they don't. They've got someone who tries to stab your eyes out with primary colours.

But there's more to the advert's failure than its hideous use of colour schemes. Every aspect of it is bad. The framing is bad. The sound is bad. The script is bad. For all their talk about representing the Great British Worker, when it comes to promotional material, the BNP can't even represent the most basic British craftsmanship.

Nick Griffin's first line is "Don't turn it off!", which in terms of opening gambits is about as enticing as hearing someone shout "Try not to be sick!" immediately prior to intercourse. He goes on to claim that, "We're all angry about professional politicians with their snouts in the public trough." He's right, we are: so angry we're prepared to instantly forget all the occasions we've fiddled our own expenses, thereby enabling us to add a dash of undeserved self-righteousness to our existing justified anger.

But by referring to "professional politicians", Griffin is presumably suggesting we should elect amateurs instead. Maybe that's why the advert's so amateurish. Maybe that's why all the BNP representatives in the ad read their lines so clumsily, like DFS employees in a bank holiday sale commercial circa 1986, or recently revived chemical coma patients being forced to recite barcode numbers at gunpoint. It's deliberate incompetence. Don't vote for those nasty slick parties. Vote for a shoddy one! Never mind the extremism, feel the ineptitude.

Here's a fantasy. We - the decent British majority - spend years toiling in secret, creating a life-size replica of Britain in the middle of the Pacific. It's identical down to the tiniest blade of grass, or branch of Gregg's. And one night, while every member of the BNP is asleep, we whisk them via helicopter to this replica UK, this Backup Britain. Put them in replica beds in replica homes. Then we fly back home to watch the fun on CCTV.

For several weeks, they walk around, confused, but pleased. The weather's nice! More importantly, there are no black faces! Then the infrastructure breaks down and they start to starve, and there's no one to blame but themselves. And then someone with GPS on their phone works out what's happened, realises they've all become immigrants in their own land. Half of them go mad and start attacking each other. The rest desperately apply for asylum in Britain. The real Britain. The decent, tolerant Britain. The country you can be proud of.

robmanic1

cheehee, I like!

fast as fupp

freehub wrote:

Yea, I want to see what the majority of people think too.

I'm not racist, I'd hapilly get along with foreign people from all places, but the mass movement of foreigners to the UK is an absolute joke and it should certainly be stopped and lots of them should be deported, allot live here illegally too.

The UK is no longer British, English whatever you want to call it, it's very multicultural and allot of the foreigners add massively to the crime rate in this country too.

If I could afford it I'd want to move to Spain to get away from it, yes oh the irony as I'm doing what they all do coming into this country. But there is a difference, for example Spain is not overrun and we English actually do good to there country, well all the drunks probably do the opposite, but if there country got too overcrowded and had masses coming into there country to live I'd not disagree with them wanting us all out, should limit it in all countries.



I'm sure I'll get flamed and I'm not making total sense anyway.

Foreign culture, well I'd class it as all this religion and all the mosques, that is foreign culture, as far as I know.

and if those horrid forruns wont go voluntarily we could thake them on a nice train ride to a special holiday camp with really nice big showers?

racist punt

freehub

I'm really not racist, despite how hard I tried I failed to get my opinions into something that made sense and got flame grilled.

fast as fupp

freehub wrote:

I'm really not racist, despite how hard I tried I failed to get my opinions into something that made sense and got flame grilled.

furry muff dude! id like to live abroad but not to get away from immigrants the vast majority of which come here to earn money and pay taxes but to escape the ignorant poor white trash which are content to sit on their fat ar$es and drag the country down to their level.

but i cant

sicknote

freehub wrote:

I'm really not racist, despite how hard I tried I failed to get my opinions into something that made sense and got flame grilled.

I don't think you are racist as I have been on the end of them and understand what you were trying to say.

I can go to some of the country's that some of these people come ( before you ask I am black and also remember have burning crosses 2/3 miles up the road from me in east London as a kid ).
A round where I live there is a big mix of races ( dont have a problem with that ) but what can cause prolems and give people like the BNP/NF a voice is when there get put in front of anyone that has put in to the country ( tax's ).

Some come over for an easy ride and this country lets them, how can that be right!

If they work and put in to the country that is fine but it should be one rule for all or BNP will have a case as they see it.

softlad

realistically though, the BNP will never be anything more than a minority party. Sure, they now have a couple of MEPs - and they may even get to the stage where they get a couple of MPs in parliament too, but I can't see it going any further than that. I certainly can't see them even challenging UKIP or the LibDems for vote share, let alone the tories or Labour.

Comparisons with 1930s Germany are fanciful at best. There were an awful lot of vested interests behind the German national socialists at the time - the Bush family for one - Hitler's rise to power made a lot of rich people even richer, but populations are far easier to control these days and it is no longer necessary to adopt extreme politics in order to do that...

finchy

Wouldn't be so sure of that softlad - looks like the government's thinking about bringing in PR for the next election:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8092235.stm

As Labour would get trounced under first past the post, they might be genuine this time, as it would then open up the possibility of Labour remaining in government with a Lab-Lib-Green coalition.

I'm all for this, even if it does mean the BNP grabbing a few seats.

Gavin Gilbert

softlad wrote:

Comparisons with 1930s Germany are fanciful at best.

True. Comparisons with 1930's Britian are much nearer the mark. The BUF couldn't make in-roads into power even with a charismatic leader like Mosley and without the baggage of post 1938 fascism.

There is however, I believe, a majority across all political views that feels frustrated that we are not allowed a mature and measured debate on immigration. The way this topic has developed shows we are still a long way from this happening.

For those waving the 'race card' here, I'll remind you that the Lincolnshire Refinery strikes ealier this year were over Italian workers. There is debate here in West London about how non-Polish local shops are being marginalised.

teagar

softlad wrote:

this is interesting:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8091605.stm

Ironically, the protest was organised by 'Unite Against Fascism' - the end result is that they have succeeded in preventing the head of a legal political organisation from speaking freely - which strikes me as being slightly fascist in itself....

I think you're being a bit obtuse.

Fascism nowadays is often synonymous with far right racist parties, as opposed to parties that intend on removing free speech. Though that's not to say that both meanings can and are used.

You can see the gripe of the protesters, and I'd be surprised that you don't share the sentiment, even if you don't agree with the act disrupting of a media. They don't want a party who is so obviously racist the notion of media legitimacy. Certainly it runs against the idea of free speech, but so do laws about inciting racial hatred and terrorism, as well as calling policemen "c*nts" etc. That doesn't mean it is necessarily wrong.

I do hope you agree with the sentiment. I really do.

teagar

Gavin Gilbert wrote:

softlad wrote:

Comparisons with 1930s Germany are fanciful at best.

True. Comparisons with 1930's Britian are much nearer the mark. The BUF couldn't make in-roads into power even with a charismatic leader like Mosley and without the baggage of post 1938 fascism.

There is however, I believe, a majority across all political views that feels frustrated that we are not allowed a mature and measured debate on immigration. The way this topic has developed shows we are still a long way from this happening.

For those waving the 'race card' here, I'll remind you that the Lincolnshire Refinery strikes ealier this year were over Italian workers. There is debate here in West London about how non-Polish local shops are being marginalised.

It is difficult to have a proper debate about immigration when it is used as a vehicle to vent latent racism. The BNP is a good case in point.

jimmypippa

On a lighter note:

The BNP poster with a spitfire on it was pretty amusing

The British National Party has pulled off a bit of a blinder by fronting an anti-immigration campaign with a poster featuring a Spitfire belonging to 303 Squadron of the RAF - the "most effective Polish squadron during the Second World War", as the Telegraph puts it.

A spokesperson at the Royal Air Force museum explained: "The Spitfire in the poster can be identified as belonging to 303 Squadron of the Polish Air Force by the code letters 'RF' painted in front of the RAF roundel. 303 Squadron operated Spitfires from Northolt, Kirton-in-Lindsey, Coltishall and other RAF stations in the UK between 1941 and 1945 after flying Hurricanes in the Battle of Britain."

John Hemming, MP for Yardley, Birmingham, weighed into the BNP, mocking: "The BNP often get confused and this happens because they haven't done their research. This is just another example of them getting it wrong. They have a policy to send Polish people back to Poland - yet they are fronting their latest campaign using this plane

The last major example of the Polish coming over here and taking our jobs was, as the Telegraph notes, during the aforementioned Battle of Britain when their pilots accounted for 203 Luftwaffe aircraft - roughly "12 per cent of total German losses".

Coming over here, fighting for our king and country, and dying. It's a bloody disgrace.


And of course they were fighting Nazis....

Gavin Gilbert

teagar wrote:

It is difficult to have a proper debate about immigration when it is used as a vehicle to vent latent racism. The BNP is a good case in point.

And it's impossible when one side keeps ignoring the elephant in the room

softlad

teagar wrote:

I think you're being a bit obtuse.

Fascism nowadays is often synonymous with far right racist parties, as opposed to parties that intend on removing free speech. Though that's not to say that both meanings can and are used.

You can see the gripe of the protesters, and I'd be surprised that you don't share the sentiment, even if you don't agree with the act disrupting of a media. They don't want a party who is so obviously racist the notion of media legitimacy. Certainly it runs against the idea of free speech, but so do laws about inciting racial hatred and terrorism, as well as calling policemen "c*nts" etc. That doesn't mean it is necessarily wrong.

I do hope you agree with the sentiment. I really do.

of course. But I just find it odd that an 'anti-fascist' organisation has to resort to the kind of disruptive 'bully-boy' tactics that we would expect of the BNP......

mmitchell88

Gavin Gilbert wrote:

teagar wrote:

It is difficult to have a proper debate about immigration when it is used as a vehicle to vent latent racism. The BNP is a good case in point.

And it's impossible when one side keeps ignoring the elephant in the room

Is this an Indian or African elephant?



Poor, I know.

RE: The disruption of the BNP news conference, I actually think that's wrong. Not because it prevents the BNP having equal rights of communication within a democracy, but because the best advert against the BNP is Nick Griffin himself and the turds that drop out of his mouth every time he speaks.

Gavin Gilbert

mmitchell88 wrote:

Is this an Indian or African elephant?

racist! stone him!

Gavin Gilbert

softlad wrote:

of course. But I just find it odd that an 'anti-fascist' organisation has to resort to the kind of disruptive 'bully-boy' tactics that we would expect of the BNP......

It's been the traditional tactic of the anti-fascists, both in Italy and Germany. In the later case it was Hitlers bodyguard - the SA, formed to protect Nazi party meetings from disruption before the rise to power - which then gave birth to the SS. In the UK, Mosley was quite open about his need for anti-facist violence to fuel his own movement.

try reading this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Blackshirt-Oswa ... 0670869996

It's a mess of a book but probably the most accessible and balanced work available. It was also the book that opened my eyes to how much of post 1945 fascist thinking has been adapted into how the European Union works :shock:

teagar

Gavin Gilbert wrote:

softlad wrote:

of course. But I just find it odd that an 'anti-fascist' organisation has to resort to the kind of disruptive 'bully-boy' tactics that we would expect of the BNP......

It's been the traditional tactic of the anti-fascists, both in Italy and Germany. In the later case it was Hitlers bodyguard - the SA, formed to protect Nazi party meetings from disruption before the rise to power - which then gave birth to the SS. In the UK, Mosley was quite open about his need for anti-facist violence to fuel his own movement.

try reading this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Blackshirt-Oswa ... 0670869996

It's a mess of a book but probably the most accessible and balanced work available. It was also the book that opened my eyes to how much of post 1945 fascist thinking has been adapted into how the European Union works :shock:

I'd stick to Richard Thurlow and Julie Gottlieb if you want to learn about British Facism. Then again, I took Gottlieb's British Facism 3rd year further modle this year.

I wouldn't call Dorril too 'balanced'. (If by 'balanced' I assume you really mean objective...)

STEFANOS4784

freehub wrote:

I'm really not racist, despite how hard I tried I failed to get my opinions into something that made sense and got flame grilled.

There's a lot of self rightous/pretentious people out there. You've got to be really careful what you say otherwise they all jump on their high horses.
There is no doubt in my mind why the majority of people i speak to who are English are atheist, it is because of all the contradicting religions that make it impossible to believe. This is not a racist comment i couldn't care less what colour/ nationality some-one is but there is no shame in having national pride and wanting to keep hold of some of the few roots we have left, IMO this debate is pointless and will go round in circles forever. People seem to use the term 'racist' towards any-one/anything that involves speaking about digfferent cultures in order to try and prove 'their' point because no-one likes a racist :roll:
Commence flaming........ 8)

STEFANOS4784

P.s i'm surprised that guy with the white flower thing as his avatar hasn't been along yet, has he been banned :? Was it WM1566 or something?

robmanic1

I'll hold your horse while you jump on Stefanos

STEFANOS4784

Watch it mind, he don't like northerners

cee

STEFANOS4784 wrote:

There is no doubt in my mind why the majority of people i speak to who are English are atheist, it is because of all the contradicting religions that make it impossible to believe.

I disagree....

I think the majority are more likely agnostic....a common misplacement....

Athesim is faith in the absolute fact that there is no god...whereas i believe that the majority of people believe in something bigger, but just are not sure what.

ride_whenever

I dissagree with cee, i think most people are apathetic...

Crapaud

cee wrote:

...Athesim is faith in the absolute fact that there is no god...

A common misunderstanding. Facts are facts! One doesn't require faith in something that's an absolute; it either is or it isn't. Faith is where one believes something is fact, but where there is no evidence to support it.

Atheism isn't a belief that there is no deity, it's a disbelief that there is.

robmanic1

cee wrote:

STEFANOS4784 wrote:

There is no doubt in my mind why the majority of people i speak to who are English are atheist, it is because of all the contradicting religions that make it impossible to believe.

I disagree....

I think the majority are more likely agnostic....a common misplacement....

Athesim is faith in the absolute fact that there is no god...whereas i believe that the majority of people believe in something bigger, but just are not sure what.

I believe the children are our future

softlad

Robmanic1 wrote:

I believe the children are our future

I believe I can fly.....