Will the madness stop Bike horror encounters

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  • jedster
    jedster Posts: 1,717
    I hardly think the issue of flats on a Wilier whatever-it-is is comparable to Muslim Extremism.

    It's practically an example of Godwin's law :lol:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

    J
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    jedster wrote:
    Basically you find yourself switching between the inner and outer rings a lot. Imagine a long climb with steep sections intersperced with flat sections. With a 39/12 you can keep a decent pace on the flat sections without spinning out. With a 34 you quickly want to reach for the big ring. It's obviously nicer if you stick with one ring for the whole climb. I reckon a 36 ring would reduce this issue by a decent amount.

    Of course your 11 speed cassette has a wider range (34/11 is similar, a little higher, than 36/12) which is another way to skin the cat (albeit quite pricey!).

    J

    Gotcha. Thanks for that! However, I don't know that a 36t ring would have a sufficient impact on your GI compared to a 34t to alleviate the problem...
    FCN 7/1
    Viner Maxima, Tifosi CK7, Giant Bowery, Old commuter.
  • roger_merriman
    roger_merriman Posts: 6,165
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    I have a compact with a 12 -27 rear cassette.

    I do find the 34 a little small throughout the range, but it's a gem for climbing and the 50 is great for everything else.

    I do miss the upper limits of speed as a guy on a Dolan Hercules demonstrated as I tried to chase him along Sawyers Hill at Richmond Park....

    I may change the rear cassette to something smaller.

    intresting that you span out? i assume your a grinder? my tendancys are that way, around london the 34 is unused far to low, and london isn't blessed with hills i left old red in the 50, last sundays ride to highgate road and back, no need to change down. but i do use the 34 in the surrey lanes and back in wales. where it comes into it's own.
  • biondino
    biondino Posts: 5,990
    roger merriman wrote:
    I don't think i've yet to spin out with on the 50/12 but i've used 34/27 okay i do go looking for steep hills, around breacon no there isn't from memory any thing too bad but other parts do have some steep ones lurking, climb up from LLangattock to the hafod and most will be looking for some low gears it's 688ft in3/4 of mile and by no means the steepest even in that valley.

    I've just about spun out in 50/12 at 42.5mph. I use 34/27 a LOT - Dark Hill by the third lap, for example :oops:
    My Focus / My Bob Jackson
    Blog (incl. bikes)
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    edited May 2009
    WHOA WHOA WHOA. Everyone slow down. I'm getting my emails mixed up with my posts on here!
    DDD, step away from the "freedom of speech as long as it doesn't interfere with my beliefs" can of worms.

    You're right. I had this one on the comic book site. I've never seen such venom debated over whether the Captain America was right to stand against the Super Hero Registration act.
    So basically YES the Kharma is better than the SCR no matter what pedals are on it?

    Like blood from a stone....

    No, my Kharma (Karen) is a better bike, who is ill suited to having flat pedals. I'd go as far as to say its harder riding the Karen in the way she likes to be ridden with flats than it would be to ride Donovan (my SCR) with flats....
    My god, DDD, I know you like to 'debate' (as you put it) - but try to take things a little less seriously once in a while. I hardly think the issue of flats on a Wilier whatever-it-is is comparable to Muslim Extremism.

    Its all relative. One person's passion is another person's irrational argument....
    Personally I'd be really surprised if DDD on SCR/clipless could not do a faster time on a loop than DDD on the karma/flats. Really surprised.

    I don't think I could do a lap faster on the Kharma with flats. Not for any other reason than the Kharma is so lively it would have me flying the minute I hit a bend.

    It would be amazing though. Two DDD's racing against each other at the same time and same place. t'would be amazing until the walls of reality melted due to the sheer infathomable levels of awesome! :shock:
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • biondino
    biondino Posts: 5,990
    jedster wrote:
    Basically you find yourself switching between the inner and outer rings a lot. Imagine a long climb with steep sections intersperced with flat sections. With a 39/12 you can keep a decent pace on the flat sections without spinning out. With a 34 you quickly want to reach for the big ring. It's obviously nicer if you stick with one ring for the whole climb. I reckon a 36 ring would reduce this issue by a decent amount.

    Of course your 11 speed cassette has a wider range (34/11 is similar, a little higher, than 36/12) which is another way to skin the cat (albeit quite pricey!).

    J

    Weird. If you're a spinner you don't have any issues like this. I don't have any problems whatsoever with missing gears when climbing.

    The only problem I do have is that my flat cruising gear is almost exactly perfect at 50/18 - but I only have 50/17 and 50/19 on my bike...
    My Focus / My Bob Jackson
    Blog (incl. bikes)
  • roger_merriman
    roger_merriman Posts: 6,165
    biondino wrote:
    roger merriman wrote:
    I don't think i've yet to spin out with on the 50/12 but i've used 34/27 okay i do go looking for steep hills, around breacon no there isn't from memory any thing too bad but other parts do have some steep ones lurking, climb up from LLangattock to the hafod and most will be looking for some low gears it's 688ft in3/4 of mile and by no means the steepest even in that valley.

    I've just about spun out in 50/12 at 42.5mph. I use 34/27 a LOT - Dark Hill by the third lap, for example :oops:

    i've normally tucked in at that point as i have enought mass that i'm more likely to gain speed that way.

    i will use the 34 in RP and the 27 at back, normally darkhill/broomfield mind you i'll also use it going up box hill looking at the view, as while i could use a higher gear sometimes it's nice to take it easy if the mood takes you.
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    roger merriman wrote:

    intresting that you span out? i assume your a grinder? my tendancys are that way, around london the 34 is unused far to low, and london isn't blessed with hills i left old red in the 50, last sundays ride to highgate road and back, no need to change down. but i do use the 34 in the surrey lanes and back in wales. where it comes into it's own.

    I am a grinder by nature, but am learning to spin a hell of a lot more - especially up hills, - as a big guy spinning helps keep the momentum IMO.

    Its just that not having any resistence in the cranks (caused by riding a small gear) means that my cadence slows to something comfortable because instinctively I hate spinning low gears and not getting anywhere.... - This is all because of my lack of technique.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • gethin.norman
    gethin.norman Posts: 13
    biondino wrote:
    Weird. If you're a spinner you don't have any issues like this. I don't have any problems whatsoever with missing gears when climbing.

    not so sure about this, it depends what gears you want to spin in.
  • jedster
    jedster Posts: 1,717
    BTW, at the moment I'm riding 50/39/30 and 12-25. I never use the little ring (although doubtless would around the Brecon Beacons).

    I climb the 1 in 10 on my commute in the saddle in 39/25 but it's only half a mile long. I can attack it out of the saddle in 39/21. Not sure that I would find much use for 34/27. Although having gone up Alpe d'huez... in a coach.... I can imagine needing it!

    J
  • jedster
    jedster Posts: 1,717
    The only problem I do have is that my flat cruising gear is almost exactly perfect at 50/18 - but I only have 50/17 and 50/19 on my bike...

    I don't like that aspect of 12-27 cassettes either - much prefer 12-25.

    J
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    jedster wrote:
    I hardly think the issue of flats on a Wilier whatever-it-is is comparable to Muslim Extremism.

    It's practically an example of Godwin's law :lol:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

    J

    :lol::lol::lol:
    FCN 7/1
    Viner Maxima, Tifosi CK7, Giant Bowery, Old commuter.
  • biondino
    biondino Posts: 5,990
    gethin.norman wrote:
    biondino wrote:
    Weird. If you're a spinner you don't have any issues like this. I don't have any problems whatsoever with missing gears when climbing.

    not so sure about this, it depends what gears you want to spin in.

    Yes, I guess this is true. I am weak and slow so it's not a problem for me - proper cyclists may well find it differs!
    My Focus / My Bob Jackson
    Blog (incl. bikes)
  • Sewinman
    Sewinman Posts: 2,131
    Should I take my egg beaters off my Trek 1.2...they might be a bit too good to have on that bike?
  • Rockbuddy
    Rockbuddy Posts: 243
    jashburnham wrote:
    Rockbuddy wrote:
    Don't do much climbing... I have very little road bike experience.

    So why are you so determined that there is little diff between flats and clipless on a roadbike then? Look at any lycra'd up roadies you see - I reckon 95% will be clipless and for good reason.

    Jashy Jashy, I'm not determined that there is little difference between flats and clipless ont he roadbike. If you have time / can be bothered to read the whole thread (or just take my word for it :wink: ) I admited in an earlier post that I haven't tried clipless as I don't think I need it at the mo (have a giant defy 4 - came with clips still on the pedals, which I haven't done more than 300miles on in the month and a half I've owned it). Jees you're easy to wind up.
    My comments are partly from curiousity and partly I 'cos can't take the preechy "You must not offend the bike gurus" attitude coming across sometimes. However, there have been a few less preechy explanations for the clipless movement and maybe I'll give it a go some day - anythings possible :wink:
  • il_principe
    il_principe Posts: 9,155
    I run my compact (50/34) with an 11/23 cassette in the UK, about perfect for me. Used a 13/27 (i know I know, massive girls gear :shock: ) in the Pyrenees though and was thankful for it (although did wish for a 54 on the descent of the Tourmalet, room for some serious speed there once the initial hairpins are dealt with! :D
  • il_principe
    il_principe Posts: 9,155
    Rockbuddy wrote:
    jashburnham wrote:
    Rockbuddy wrote:
    Don't do much climbing... I have very little road bike experience.

    So why are you so determined that there is little diff between flats and clipless on a roadbike then? Look at any lycra'd up roadies you see - I reckon 95% will be clipless and for good reason.

    Jashy Jashy, I'm not determined that there is little difference between flats and clipless ont he roadbike. If you have time / can be bothered to read the whole thread (or just take my word for it :wink: ) I admited in an earlier post that I haven't tried clipless as I don't think I need it at the mo (have a giant defy 4 - came with clips still on the pedals, which I haven't done more than 300miles on in the month and a half I've owned it). Jees you're easy to wind up.
    My comments are partly from curiousity and partly I 'cos can't take the preechy "You must not offend the bike gurus" attitude coming across sometimes. However, there have been a few less preechy explanations for the clipless movement and maybe I'll give it a go some day - anythings possible :wink:

    Come on fella, give clipless a go. Very few ever go back to flats. Doooooooo Iiiiiiiitttt, then you'll understand why we're so preachy. From my point of view it's got nothing to do with being preachy, it's because it was a total revelation when I tried it and I want others to see the difference. Basically the same reason i get so "preachy" over hybrids. Oh and you've not wound me up fella, I'm zen :D - it's Thursday, i'm done with meetings for the week, riding on Sun and Mon then flying to Turkey for a weeks hol on Tuesday! Yay! :lol:
  • greg66_tri_v2.0
    greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    WHOA WHOA WHOA. Everyone slow down. I'm getting my emails mixed up with my posts on here!
    DDD, step away from the "freedom of speech as long as it doesn't interfere with my beliefs" can of worms.

    You're right. I had this one on the comic book site. I've never seen such venom debated over whether the Captain America was right to stand against the Super Hero Registration act.

    :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

    DDD, HTF do you get any work done? Or, more to point, HTF do you avoid getting fired?
    Swim. Bike. Run. Yeah. That's what I used to do.

    Bike 1
    Bike 2-A
  • Rockbuddy
    Rockbuddy Posts: 243
    jedster wrote:
    Also using inner at the front and outer at the back (39 / 12) seems to be crossing the gears a bit much, i.e. the chain is way out of line if not rubbing on the front mech. Not really sure if this is right, as I have very little road bike experience.

    Not much of an issue with a double - shouldn't rub. Obviously, you wouldn't want to use it as a standard cruising combination but works fine. More of an issue on a triple - probably where you are coming from.

    In general you want to use the back shifter because those changes work much better under load than the front ones - hence basic idea is to pick the ring to suit the general terrain then fine tune with the cassette.

    J

    Hmm OK, noted, will see how it goes....
  • biondino
    biondino Posts: 5,990
    Sewinman wrote:
    Should I take my egg beaters off my Trek 1.2...they might be a bit too good to have on that bike?

    If you don't take to them can I buy them off you?
    My Focus / My Bob Jackson
    Blog (incl. bikes)
  • il_principe
    il_principe Posts: 9,155
    Eggbeaters? On a roadie? :roll:

    :lol:
  • Rockbuddy
    Rockbuddy Posts: 243
    jashburnham wrote:
    Rockbuddy wrote:
    jashburnham wrote:
    Rockbuddy wrote:
    Don't do much climbing... I have very little road bike experience.

    So why are you so determined that there is little diff between flats and clipless on a roadbike then? Look at any lycra'd up roadies you see - I reckon 95% will be clipless and for good reason.

    Jashy Jashy, I'm not determined that there is little difference between flats and clipless ont he roadbike. If you have time / can be bothered to read the whole thread (or just take my word for it :wink: ) I admited in an earlier post that I haven't tried clipless as I don't think I need it at the mo (have a giant defy 4 - came with clips still on the pedals, which I haven't done more than 300miles on in the month and a half I've owned it). Jees you're easy to wind up.
    My comments are partly from curiousity and partly I 'cos can't take the preechy "You must not offend the bike gurus" attitude coming across sometimes. However, there have been a few less preechy explanations for the clipless movement and maybe I'll give it a go some day - anythings possible :wink:

    Come on fella, give clipless a go. Very few ever go back to flats. Doooooooo Iiiiiiiitttt, then you'll understand why we're so preachy. From my point of view it's got nothing to do with being preachy, it's because it was a total revelation when I tried it and I want others to see the difference. Basically the same reason i get so "preachy" over hybrids. Oh and you've not wound me up fella, I'm zen :D - it's Thursday, i'm done with meetings for the week, riding on Sun and Mon then flying to Turkey for a weeks hol on Tuesday! Yay! :lol:

    Ok, confession time - I had an mtb (commuted on for bout 18months - trail / road) then wanted to get a hybrid for new road only commute. After reading comments on this forum from guys like you I did get the new road bike AND I hate it, thanks alot fella... :evil:

    Yeah ok I love it, it's obvisouly very different from the mtb but I am getting used to it and yes maybe after all my other fincial commitments are out of the way I will get some better pedals (on top of all the other accesories I want / need) happy? Anyways, enjoy your holiday... :cry:
  • il_principe
    il_principe Posts: 9,155
    Rockbuddy wrote:
    After reading comments on this forum from guys like you I did get the new road bike AND...I love it, it's obvisouly very different from the mtb but I am getting used to it and yes maybe after all my other fincial commitments are out of the way I will get some better pedals (on top of all the other accesories I want / need) happy? Anyways, enjoy your holiday... :cry:

    Not as happy as you'll be when you go clipless! :lol: What roadie did you get then?
  • Sewinman
    Sewinman Posts: 2,131
    biondino wrote:
    Sewinman wrote:
    Should I take my egg beaters off my Trek 1.2...they might be a bit too good to have on that bike?

    If you don't take to them can I buy them off you?

    I got them on your recommendation. Very pleased so far and they make a hell of a difference. I was doing 25 miles an hour in RP the other day with out much effort.
  • Rockbuddy
    Rockbuddy Posts: 243
    edited May 2009
    jashburnham wrote:
    Rockbuddy wrote:
    After reading comments on this forum from guys like you I did get the new road bike AND...I love it, it's obvisouly very different from the mtb but I am getting used to it and yes maybe after all my other fincial commitments are out of the way I will get some better pedals (on top of all the other accesories I want / need) happy? Anyways, enjoy your holiday... :cry:

    Not as happy as you'll be when you go clipless! :lol: What roadie did you get then?

    :lol: You don't read much do you (said a page back :lol: ), Giant Defy 4, bottom of the range with Shimano 2200 group set but has a carbon 'composite' fork though :wink:

    The pedals would run fine as flats, as they are nearly as big as my mtb and have nice spikey bits! Don't worry, I am not going backwards, I'm keeping the clips for now (nice middle ground) 8)
  • Rockbuddy
    Rockbuddy Posts: 243
    L_i_T why've you changed your avatar, was much nicer before - is it a statement???
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    Rockbuddy wrote:
    L_i_T why've you changed your avatar, was much nicer before - is it a statement???

    It's because I can't get flickr at work - relevance will be come clear if you read the SCR thread (from the beginning)...

    It's a reference to scalping a scooter...
    FCN 7/1
    Viner Maxima, Tifosi CK7, Giant Bowery, Old commuter.
  • Rockbuddy
    Rockbuddy Posts: 243
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    Rockbuddy wrote:
    L_i_T why've you changed your avatar, was much nicer before - is it a statement???

    It's because I can't get flickr at work - relevance will be come clear if you read the SCR thread (from the beginning)...

    It's a reference to scalping a scooter...

    Read the SCR from the begining, what the whole thing :shock:

    I'll just be content with the fact it a ref to scooter scalping :wink:
  • Bassjunkieuk
    Bassjunkieuk Posts: 4,232
    God damnit, blasted work getting in the way of DDD's quality threads..........I missed this one when I started but read the first few pages and fully understand.

    There was a lovely carbon Look bike up outside where I was working at the start of the week, looked gorgeous decked out in Campag but was then ruined by a proper big MTB style flat people! Having said that it was an office that does fashion magazine publishing and when you see how some of the people who worked there dressed it was understandable!

    I have encountered a fair few people on nice bikes with either toe-clips or flat peoples and do think why, I had one guy on a rather nice Bianchi once near Streatham Common who's gears where making a horrendous noise. I commented it might be the indexing and he said he doesn't really know much about bikes ;shock: - If he hadn't been riding with toe-clips I'd have suggested we swap bikes as it was clearly wasted on him ;-) I know that probably sounds rather rude of me but I can't quite find the words for those "all the gear and no idea" types, I guess it comes partly from having a fairly entry-level bike and whilst I love it to bits I long for something better so I can take my cycling to a higher level!
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  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Rolf F wrote:
    I've never heard of a Wilier of any shape or form but this thread makes me want to go out and buy one and fit it with flat pedals and hybrid handlebars! Maybe a rack and basket too!

    Not that there is anything wrong with not knowing what a Wilier is but all of what you heave written is made moot by your first six words

    Naaah, technically it is irrelevant (well, not totally irrelevant but mostly so!) - there was enough preceding information in the thread to enable me to make a post no more daft than the thread statistical mean! Ultimately, you should have just asked the chap what he was playing at and therefore posted a much less controversial thread!!

    I have looked Wilier up - I approve. A proper old company though a bit of a spring chicken compared to Bianchi but never mind!
    Faster than a tent.......

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