Will the madness stop Bike horror encounters

downfader

DonDaddyD wrote:

tardie wrote:

It's not about the brand, it's about the rider, surely!

AND

Downfader wrote:

Exactly. I couldnt give a damn what people ride or what tech they have or omit. As long as they dont break any laws or injure anyone

No, its not about the brand or the rider, its about the bike. The Izoard is a Sportive/race bike, its designed to be ridden for long distances, very fast. Its an option for the enthusiast. You are not going to get the best out of the bike on flats. Much like your not going to get the best out of a Ferrari permanently driving it in the centre of London. The Izoard's design is to deliver its expectations in the most efficient way. Flat pedals contradict the bikes entire principles.

If you want to ride with flat pedals (given the speed restrictions flats haveover clipless) buy a cheaper bike like a Wilier Evasion or La Triestina....

People ride these things in urban areas because its a status thing, or they think it looks cool.

Dear god you're a snob

doog442

perhaps he rides it like he does...

because he can

Rockbuddy

doog442 wrote:

perhaps he rides it like he does...

because he can

I think you hit the nail on the head here, DDD's jealous - if he had the Izoard he'd treat it right he would

lost_in_thought

Greg66 wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

Now now, bike tarts...

If someone wants a lovely bike and wants flats on it, then that's their prerogative.

On that note, I still haven't found any sandals that'll take speedplay cleats...

You need not worry.

People stare long and hard at the straw boater and long flowing skirt when you're on the Maxima for so long they never get as far as the sandals. :twisted: :P

I didn't realise you'd seen me pootling around on the cruiser...

beegee

Interesting because I was going to write something about this but DDD has got there before me. But I'm the enemy in this situation. I love the look of TT bikes with oversize tubes and they look so agressive like the stealth bomber. And I would love to have one. But I am too slow. I mean really really slow. So unlike someone who buys a Ferrari or a Porshe or an Aston Martin who has no motor skills but can pose about town looking like a hero I have to accept that no matter how big my bank balance is I will never be able to have my dream bike because I haven't got the skills to justify the bike. Except of course if I do some work on my cycling skills. Thinking about it it's because you can't tell if the dude in the Ferrari has race skills because on the road you cannot race properly whereas you can tell if the dude on the £3K bike is as slow as a snail. And why do people get misty eyed over those old bikes with tiny tubes that look so old fashioned ?

jenine

umm maybe he was just rideing it home from work? i been rideing `13 years on a moutain bike, and have often riden to my girlfreinds house in a mini skirt and boots, on a 3 grand scott, but i was being extra skilled and useing spds with out the shoes....lol

Jay dubbleU

DonDaddyD wrote:

RIGHT YOU LOT There are boundaries!

Its one thing getting, riding and justifying a flat bar road bike, hybrid, mountain bike or a aluminium (sora/Mirage) road bike with flats or toe clips for your commute. But this is an Izoard, AN IZOARD! A WILIER IZOARD!!!


The bike isn't even sold with anything less than Ultegra or Centaur! Yes you can build it with 105 or Veloce but the bike shop won't recommend it (the good ones anyway, they should recommend a Mortirolo - which shouldn't have flats on it either). Would you steel wheels and hub caps on a Maserati becuase it amounts to the same thing!?

Putting flats on a carbon fibre bike, let alone an Izoard, is frankly stupid and a waste of money and the bike.

DDD I know your writing in English but I have no idea what you are talking about :oops:

Rockbuddy

beegee wrote:

Interesting because I was going to write something about this but DDD has got there before me. But I'm the enemy in this situation. I love the look of TT bikes with oversize tubes and they look so agressive like the stealth bomber. And I would love to have one. But I am too slow. I mean really really slow. So unlike someone who buys a Ferrari or a Porshe or an Aston Martin who has no motor skills but can pose about town looking like a hero I have to accept that no matter how big my bank balance is I will never be able to have my dream bike because I haven't got the skills to justify the bike. Except of course if I do some work on my cycling skills. Thinking about it it's because you can't tell if the dude in the Ferrari has race skills because on the road you cannot race properly whereas you can tell if the dude on the £3K bike is as slow as a snail. And why do people get misty eyed over those old bikes with tiny tubes that look so old fashioned ?

What utter rubbish...so you can only spend £3k on a bike if you are fast or use it with certain peddles / accesories? If you have the money and you want the bike, get it - if you get faster, 'cos you started really trying on your new fancy bike great. If you don't what's the problem other than bike snobs no-one will give a monkies. Surely it's about what makes you happy after all you've shelled out the money for the bike.

On the other hand, if you don't have the money stop worrying about having a bike that you perceive you are not good enough to own as you may never have it

batch78

DDD, don't listen to these heathens, you are completely correct.

I am not a bike snob, nor a bike tart, but I do have respect and the fundamental understanduing of how a quality piece of equipment should be used.

Yes this man CAN use flats, but in doing so he has wronged.

lost_in_thought

Rockbuddy wrote:

beegee wrote:

Interesting because I was going to write something about this but DDD has got there before me. But I'm the enemy in this situation. I love the look of TT bikes with oversize tubes and they look so agressive like the stealth bomber. And I would love to have one. But I am too slow. I mean really really slow. So unlike someone who buys a Ferrari or a Porshe or an Aston Martin who has no motor skills but can pose about town looking like a hero I have to accept that no matter how big my bank balance is I will never be able to have my dream bike because I haven't got the skills to justify the bike. Except of course if I do some work on my cycling skills. Thinking about it it's because you can't tell if the dude in the Ferrari has race skills because on the road you cannot race properly whereas you can tell if the dude on the £3K bike is as slow as a snail. And why do people get misty eyed over those old bikes with tiny tubes that look so old fashioned ?

What utter rubbish...so you can only spend £3k on a bike if you are fast or use it with certain peddles / accesories? If you have the money and you want the bike, get it - if you get faster, 'cos you started really trying on your new fancy bike great. If you don't what's the problem other than bike snobs no-one will give a monkies. Surely it's about what makes you happy after all you've shelled out the money for the bike.

On the other hand, if you don't have the money stop worrying about having a bike that you perceive you are not good enough to own as you may never have it

Bang on - I'm nowhere near good enough for the maxima, barely good enough for the tifosi!

Rockbuddy

batch78 wrote:

DDD, don't listen to these heathens, you are completely correct.

I am not a bike snob, nor a bike tart, but I do have respect and the fundamental understanduing of how a quality piece of equipment should be used.

Yes this man CAN use flats, but in doing so he has wronged.

Come on it's not like he's cycling around with his bits hangin out, is he? :shock:

If someone could tell me why it's wrong to use flats on a carbon "super power", withought the inane "it just is" I'd be very grateful.

Rockbuddy

lost_in_thought wrote:

Rockbuddy wrote:

beegee wrote:

Interesting because I was going to write something about this but DDD has got there before me. But I'm the enemy in this situation. I love the look of TT bikes with oversize tubes and they look so agressive like the stealth bomber. And I would love to have one. But I am too slow. I mean really really slow. So unlike someone who buys a Ferrari or a Porshe or an Aston Martin who has no motor skills but can pose about town looking like a hero I have to accept that no matter how big my bank balance is I will never be able to have my dream bike because I haven't got the skills to justify the bike. Except of course if I do some work on my cycling skills. Thinking about it it's because you can't tell if the dude in the Ferrari has race skills because on the road you cannot race properly whereas you can tell if the dude on the £3K bike is as slow as a snail. And why do people get misty eyed over those old bikes with tiny tubes that look so old fashioned ?

What utter rubbish...so you can only spend £3k on a bike if you are fast or use it with certain peddles / accesories? If you have the money and you want the bike, get it - if you get faster, 'cos you started really trying on your new fancy bike great. If you don't what's the problem other than bike snobs no-one will give a monkies. Surely it's about what makes you happy after all you've shelled out the money for the bike.

On the other hand, if you don't have the money stop worrying about having a bike that you perceive you are not good enough to own as you may never have it

Bang on - I'm nowhere near good enough for the maxima, barely good enough for the tifosi!

Exactly (not saying anything about your standard 'cos I ain't a clue) but if you love a bike and enjoy riding it, that's the point isn't it

But you wear clipless on the maxima don't you, like you should

Slow1972

Seems there was a bit of the green eyed monster there DDD

You're all thrashing around London, and you get from A to B on all sorts of bikes, hence your SCR game. But all that stopping and starting for lights etc is a pain in the ar*e for proper roadie clipless pedals and shoes, you wear your cleats out and the heel tabs off your shoes, which is why I wear SPDs on my commuter and keep the SPD SLs for my good bike. Maybe this guy likes plodding around on flats during the week and swaps onto the clipless pedals when he gets on to decent roads at the weekend when he can really enjoy the ride of the Willier. Lets face it, commuting on it, even with roadie clipless pedals, aint going to bring out the best in it is it?

Its his bike, he likes riding it with flats, where's the problem. No better or worse than someone on a 3k bike who is assosed or rapha'd up to their eyeballs and can't ride very well. None of it really matters, at least they're all riding a bike

mountainroadie

lost_in_thought"]Now now, bike tarts...











mmmm not sure about the white wheels and mudgaurds on a maxima LIT
like your hat though

batch78

If someone could tell me why it's wrong to use flats on a carbon "super power", withought the inane "it just is" I'd be very grateful.

Flats are fine on a commuter if your constantly stop starting, they are fine on a bmx, dirt jump bike, downhill mountainbike, and any other contraption on which sustained, economic forward momentum due to peddaling, is not required, they are not fine, IMHO, on cross country MTB's or road bikes of any standard with drop bars and skinny tyres, I just feel its wrong to incorrectly use equipment and never even attempt to realise its full potential.

If you have £2k plus to spend on a 'super power' as you put it, (I don't), then surely you have £50 to spend on a hack for commuting, (I do!), if you can't afford both then at least fit toeclips and show a bit of retro cool whilst still enhancing your peddaling.

stuaff

DDD, you do seem to be making a habit of these rather contentious threads (that's not a complaint, just an observation, keeps things interesting if nothing else!)...
A suggestion, should you see the guy again. Have a word, say 'cool bike, unusual to be using flats on that, how come?'. Or words to that effect. There are all sorts of reasons he could be riding the thing around like that, as has been repeatedly been pointed out by others. True, he could simply be a tosser, among other things... But perhaps he needs a little education from someone who's seen the clipless light, someone to show him a better way. Failing that, the likes of you or me Worst case, he's a tosser. Best case: you make a new friend for RP/the Morpeth/life in general. Even if he's perfectly happy on flats- as he's entitled to be- it could be worthwhile to find out.

FWIW: If and when I buy a road bike (if so, that would probably be a Viner, though not a Maxima unless the numbers come up, for no other reason than my LBS is a dealer with a rather splendid wall display...) I will happily stick Shimano or SRAM gearing on it rather than Campag, depending which I prefer, and SPD pedals (because I like being able to walk properly when I go somewhere on a bike, thank you very much). My money, my choice. So there, yah boo sucks. As for my dream bike, I can hear them now. 'It's made in a shed. FROM STEEL! In Bradford on Avon! It's got tiny wheels. It looks like scaffolding!! OMG!!!'

DonDaddyD

OK to clarify.

I love the look of the Wilier Izoard. I'm not jealous of it. I just bought a Kuota Khama. I love my Kharma. I could have got a Mortirolo, Izoard or a Kuota Kebel (the Kebel was around the same price as the Izoard) I prefered the Kharma.

I'm not seeing how I'm a snob of any kind. Given things I've said previously in topics of that nature and in person I feel secure in saying you're all wrong about that.I think people are hiding behind that accusation.

Fact is a person can ride any bike they want to ride. But there comes a point where the purpose/design/intended usuage of the bike outweighs a persons own intentions for said bike. I.e. I don't see many Maxima's, Focus Cayo Lightweights, Pinerello's, Full suspension or TT bikes being ridden to work (in London) or ridden with flat pedals.

Having flat pedals on an Izoard is like me putting Attack/Force tyres on my Giant SCR 3 for my 7 - 8mile commute. No matter how fast the tyres its not necessary. Equally flats on what is essentially a race bike is pretty pointless, flats will only hinder the bike.

Yes the owner of the bike can indeed do whatever he wants with his bike. I could buy a Ridley Noah, put flats on it and only ride it to work in the winter..... Sure it would be my choice, it doesn't change the fact that my choice would be stupid, pointless and largely a waste of money. Its the riders choice to put flats on an Izoard, it still makes having flat pedals on the Izoard stupid and nearly pointless. I'm not afraid to say it and saying it doesn't make me a snob.

Furthermore:

Fireblade96 wrote:

If you want to ride with flat pedals (given the speed restrictions flats haveover clipless) buy a cheaper bike like a Wilier Evasion or La Triestina....

Oi ! I'm looking at a La Triestina as my new, best, most-expensive-I've-ever-owned bike ! I can guarantee it won't be ridden with flats though...

Blimmin' bike snobs :?

admittedly I did test ride it today with single-sided flat/SPD pedals, so any passing bike pedant may have assumed I was using flats. And it still had the price label dangling from the bars. And you know what ? It was great and I think I'm going to buy it...

There is always going to be a bike more expensive/better than or cheaper/worse than the bike you own or are going to purchase. Acknowledging this doesn't make me a bike snob nor does it make the bike you are going to buy a bad bike.

People ride these things in urban areas because its a status thing, or they think it looks cool.

Dear god you're a snob

Really I'm not seeing how.

mountainroadie

cant you see ddd"s point italian carbon izoard deserves clipless pedals on it . if the guy is commuting he shoulda got a hack bike was he wearing socks like tardies
as was said earlier on the thread maybe he doesnt know about clipless peds
knakered knees cant use clipless ?
running a marathon in hobnail boots . swimming in a boiler suit . climbing mount everest naked .these things spring to mind.

commuting on a two grand wilier with flats on its just not cricket :?

rolf_f

I've never heard of a Wilier of any shape or form but this thread makes me want to go out and buy one and fit it with flat pedals and hybrid handlebars! Maybe a rack and basket too!

Seriously, who knows why people do certain things - sometimes for good reasons and sometimes not but it really doesn't matter. It's only a bl00dy bike!

batch78 wrote:

...... they are not fine, IMHO, on cross country MTB's or road bikes of any standard with drop bars and skinny tyres,

I don't know much about bikes (see above) but even I know there is nowt wrong with flats on a cross country mtb!

Eau Rouge

I have to agree with DDD here.

Why would you spend £2k+ on a bike if you don't actually want to ride it, you know, like the racing bike it is. (I'm not saying you need to be fast, just that you ....shall we say....try every now and then)
That's got to mean by using some sort of clippy pedal system, because to ride a bike like that in the right style (that is to say to exploit the very things the bike is designed to do, things that make it different to a Dutch city bike for example) you are going to have to come off the saddle at some point, which is what clippy pedal systems are best at.
To use flats will limit how hard you can go when out of the saddle (again, nothing to do with how fast you are, just how hard you are trying) and if your going to limit how hard you can try for the sake of £100 on shoes and pedals, you aren't going to see ANY difference between your £2k+ bike and those costing a tenth of that, so what are you spending £2k+ on your bike?

It's not jealousy, it's not snobbery, it's just confusion at something that doesn't seem to make any sense at all. Frankly, it looks like they have made a stupid mistake in buying a bike when they have no intention of using the very properties of that bike that mean it costs as much as it does.

I also disagree with the idea that you need to be "fast enough" to buy your dream bike (TT or otherwise) If you have the money, thats all you need, go and buy it, enjoy it, and be happy.

bracketed

On the other hand, with flat pedals, he can use that bike any time he pleases. He can ride it everywhere he wants to around town, can enjoy being on it whenever he likes, whatever he's wearing and wherever he is going. It's a lovely looking bike, and presumably feels fantastic even to ride sedately - and if that's what he wants it for, then great: it's making someone happy.

Now if you'd said it was being mistreated - rusty chain, wonky wheels, no care, then I'd be agreeing with you. It is a crime to treat any bike like that, even a BSO, but all the more so for a machine like that Wilier.

Rockbuddy

batch78 wrote:

If someone could tell me why it's wrong to use flats on a carbon "super power", withought the inane "it just is" I'd be very grateful.

Flats are fine on a commuter if your constantly stop starting, they are fine on a bmx, dirt jump bike, downhill mountainbike, and any other contraption on which sustained, economic forward momentum due to peddaling, is not required, they are not fine, IMHO, on cross country MTB's or road bikes of any standard with drop bars and skinny tyres, I just feel its wrong to incorrectly use equipment and never even attempt to realise its full potential.

If you have £2k plus to spend on a 'super power' as you put it, (I don't), then surely you have £50 to spend on a hack for commuting, (I do!), if you can't afford both then at least fit toeclips and show a bit of retro cool whilst still enhancing your peddaling.

So basically NO you can't answer my question, other than your opinion (which oh course you're entitled to) there's no explanation above why it's wrong.

My point is it's a matter of choice not of money, what ever makes you happy. Thing is I have a xc mtb (not brilliant but I have one) and I have flats on it (quite spikey one's, glutten for punishment). I'd just rather not be attached to my bike while off roading, my choice though right

roger_merriman

maybe he never got used to clippless? I personally wouldn't as i like SPD's and frankly roadie flats are poor, half decent MTB ones are very good but are likely to look at tad odd and frankly weigh a ton.

I have single sided SPD's so i can use the bike in jeans and trainers as i did last night meeting my wife at a pub, and had no problem at all sweeping past some of the club/lycra. it really doesn't make much if any difference.

Rockbuddy

Just put this question out there, 'cos there seems to be quite a few people on this thread that are adamant you can't ride a £2+ bike properly without some sort of clip, preferrably "clipless" (a contradiction in terms ). Has anyone here actually ridden a £2k+ "superbike" with flats and the same bike with clips for comparison? How much different was it, was it totally unrideable??? Was it as slow or slower than your cheap bike? I'd be really interested to know the answer to this. Cheers

roger_merriman

Rockbuddy wrote:

Just put this question out there, 'cos there seems to be quite a few people on this thread that are adamant you can't right a £2+ bike properly without some sort of clip, preferrably "clipless" (a contradiction in terms ). Has anyone here actually ridden a £2k+ "superbike" with flats and the same bike with clips for comparison? How much different was it, was it totally unrideable??? Was it as slow or slower than your cheap bike? I'd be really interested to know the answer to this. Cheers

problem would be what your used to, i suspect very few people use both a lot of the time, i suspect there is naff all it as any pull up one does is a) tiny compared to the down b) road cycling is not a power sport most fast cyclists are leaner, rather than being heavy weight powerful folks

DavidTQ

Rockbuddy wrote:

Just put this question out there, 'cos there seems to be quite a few people on this thread that are adamant you can't right a £2+ bike properly without some sort of clip, preferrably "clipless" (a contradiction in terms ). Has anyone here actually ridden a £2k+ "superbike" with flats and the same bike with clips for comparison? How much different was it, was it totally unrideable??? Was it as slow or slower than your cheap bike? I'd be really interested to know the answer to this. Cheers

Not by any means a "super bike" (although I like it a lot ), but Ive ridden my Giant SCR1 on mtb flats, toe clips and SPD's, when I first got the bike I fitted the flats from my old bike as I didnt want to get used to a new bike and pedal system at the same time. My favourite was the toe clips, which I put on the bike within a few weeks of getting it, but I broke them . The extra connection with the pedals really does "feel right" by no means was the bike unrideable on flats, but things felt better with the toe clips.

I know people are adamant that you cant adjust toe clips to both attach you to the bike and allow easy and fuss free withdrawal but my toe clips were absolutely spot on. The spds are mildly more secure but have far more potential for causing issues getting your feet out. The SPD's must have been on the bike for a year now but if I had a spare pair with toe clips they would be on the bike, as it is I paid for the SPD's so Im damnwell going to use them, they arent that bad they are better than flats but I definetely felt my toe clips were better.

Overall I dont think that either clipless or toe clips make a huge difference to the ammount of power you can put down, or the overall efficiency of the cycling, but they do "feel" nicer once you are used to them. I think the biggest difference they make isnt the pull up effect its the zero chance of a botched up hill gear change resulting in a foot slipping off pedal moment. Being that bit more securely held in place you feel more at one with the bike and so will go faster not so much because of pedalling efficiency but the reassurance of the feel of the feet attached to the pedals.

DonDaddyD

Rolf F wrote:

I've never heard of a Wilier of any shape or form but this thread makes me want to go out and buy one and fit it with flat pedals and hybrid handlebars! Maybe a rack and basket too!

Not that there is anything wrong with not knowing what a Wilier is but all of what you heave written is made moot by your first six words:

Rolf F wrote:

I've never heard of a Wilier

Eau Rouge wrote:

Why would you spend £2k+ on a bike if you don't actually want to ride it, you know, like the racing bike it is. (I'm not saying you need to be fast, just that you ....shall we say....try every now and then)
That's got to mean by using some sort of clippy pedal system, because to ride a bike like that in the right style (that is to say to exploit the very things the bike is designed to do, things that make it different to a Dutch city bike for example) you are going to have to come off the saddle at some point, which is what clippy pedal systems are best at.
To use flats will limit how hard you can go when out of the saddle (again, nothing to do with how fast you are, just how hard you are trying) and if your going to limit how hard you can try for the sake of £100 on shoes and pedals, you aren't going to see ANY difference between your £2k+ bike and those costing a tenth of that, so what are you spending £2k+ on your bike?

+1

DonDaddyD

bracketed wrote:

On the other hand, with flat pedals, he can use that bike any time he pleases. He can ride it everywhere he wants to around town, can enjoy being on it whenever he likes, whatever he's wearing and wherever he is going.

I can do the same on my Giant and Kharma road bikes and they have SPD-sl pedals (I can also walk in the shoes comfortably). So the point is mostly moot.

I'm neither the most experienced guy on a road bike or the fastest.

Now if you'd said it was being mistreated - rusty chain, wonky wheels, no care, then I'd be agreeing with you. It is a crime to treat any bike like that, even a BSO, but all the more so for a machine like that Wilier.

Your contradicting yourself here. Some would argue that having flat pedals is mistreating a bike of that calibre, price and design.

georgee

Much like the numpty I scalped last night on a Spesh tarmac with flats and a D lock on the frame. Or the muppet last week on a De Rosa Idol with the cheapest clipless shoes you’ve ever seen. When will the y learn some respect. I almost said something to the De Rosa bloke.

As for the Monkey on the Wilier (Wilier rider myself, coincidently bought from De Vere) I blame cycle surgery and cycle to work schemes, let any old fool spank a ton of money on something they know nothing about and then get bored leaving them to gather dust.

il_principe

It's like matching a bespoke suit with shoes from Asda.
Like mixing Ardbeg Supernova with coke.
Like buying an iPhone and only using it to make calls with.