Will the madness stop Bike horror encounters

lost_in_thought

DonDaddyD wrote:

Now if you'd said it was being mistreated - rusty chain, wonky wheels, no care, then I'd be agreeing with you. It is a crime to treat any bike like that, even a BSO, but all the more so for a machine like that Wilier.

Your contradicting yourself here. Some would argue that having flat pedals is mistreating a bike of that calibre, price and design.

Boys, boys! It's a bundle of carbon and alloy, not a pony!

Personally I think you're daft. I like putting nice things on my nice bike, but I don't think everyone has to.

Maybe he has a medical reason. Maybe he's got the bike on C2W and is nervous of SPDs. Maybe he puts speedplays on it on the weekend but commutes on flats. Whatever the reason, if he wants flats let him have them! Poor sod. I'm going to go find him and give him a hug.

Later though, I really ought to go to work. :oops:

jedster

Frankly, it looks like they have made a stupid mistake in buying a bike when they have no intention of using the very properties of that bike that mean it costs as much as it does.

Look, I agree riding a two grand race bike with flats is very odd and a bit silly. That said, I suspect I know why he was doing it - he's not a very experienced cyclist but has some cash and just loved the way the Izoard looked (and I can see his point there, it is rather lovely). I suppose the aesthetics are one of the bike properties and one that he is actually using? Personally, I would never do that as I'd be a bit embarrassed as it shouts "all the gear and no idea" which is something I try to avoid. But I know other people feel completely differently about it.

How much of a drawback are flats on a race bike? Well IMO clipless vs flats makes more of a difference than spending an extra £500 on the frame or groupset. I now hate riding on flats - I just can't really put in a proper burst of power on flats because I am cautious about the risk of my feet slipping off the pedals. I also like to pull up when attacking a short sharp hill. Like I say, a good connection to the pedals is IMO more important than a few lbs of weight, a stiffer frame or smoother shifting.

BTW - what's wrong with "all the gear and no idea"? Obviously it's no crime. I just feel it's a bit pretentious. In a way, that's the whole FCN thing isn't it? You go out in team colours on super bike and people will assume that you are making some claim to being a good cyclist. I do get the point that lots of people are not, they are just fans who love their bikes. But a premise behind the FCN is that you are bursting people's pretentions when you scalp them, so I don't think any of the avid SCRers can deny some discomfort with ATGANI!

Cheers,

J

Rockbuddy

georgee wrote:

Much like the numpty I scalped last night on a Spesh tarmac with flats and a D lock on the frame. Or the muppet last week on a De Rosa Idol with the cheapest clipless shoes you’ve ever seen. When will the y learn some respect. I almost said something to the De Rosa bloke.

As for the Monkey on the Wilier (Wilier rider myself, coincidently bought from De Vere) I blame cycle surgery and cycle to work schemes, let any old fool spank a ton of money on something they know nothing about and then get bored leaving them to gather dust.

What's your point? You over took two people on nice bikes with crap pedals, well done - cake for ya?
Were the bikes dusty that you overtook? Were they wobbling all over the place? DId they even give a monkies that you "scalped" them? Is there no freedom of choice here anymore or must all people do what you say as you are clearly DA MAN...

jedster

I blame cycle surgery and cycle to work schemes, let any old fool spank a ton of money on something they know nothing about and then get bored leaving them to gather dust.

is it just me thinking "second-hand ebay bargains"...

Rockbuddy

jedster wrote:

Frankly, it looks like they have made a stupid mistake in buying a bike when they have no intention of using the very properties of that bike that mean it costs as much as it does.

Look, I agree riding a two grand race bike with flats is very odd and a bit silly. That said, I suspect I know why he was doing it - he's not a very experienced cyclist but has some cash and just loved the way the Izoard looked (and I can see his point there, it is rather lovely). I suppose the aesthetics are one of the bike properties and one that he is actually using? Personally, I would never do that as I'd be a bit embarrassed as it shouts "all the gear and no idea" which is something I try to avoid. But I know other people feel completely differently about it.

How much of a drawback are flats on a race bike? Well IMO clipless vs flats makes more of a difference than spending an extra £500 on the frame or groupset. I now hate riding on flats - I just can't really put in a proper burst of power on flats because I am cautious about the risk of my feet slipping off the pedals. I also like to pull up when attacking a short sharp hill. Like I say, a good connection to the pedals is IMO more important than a few lbs of weight, a stiffer frame or smoother shifting.

BTW - what's wrong with "all the gear and no idea"? Obviously it's no crime. I just feel it's a bit pretentious. In a way, that's the whole FCN thing isn't it? You go out in team colours on super bike and people will assume that you are making some claim to being a good cyclist. I do get the point that lots of people are not, they are just fans who love their bikes. But a premise behind the FCN is that you are bursting people's pretentions when you scalp them, so I don't think any of the avid SCRers can deny some discomfort with ATGANI!

Cheers,

J

Thanks for that, at least someone is looking at this from a more rounded perspective not the blinkered, it's wrong, herasy, it makes me sick....of some people...Cheers

Kieran_Burns

roger merriman wrote:

maybe he never got used to clippless? I personally wouldn't as i like SPD's and frankly roadie flats are poor, half decent MTB ones are very good but are likely to look at tad odd and frankly weigh a ton.

I have single sided SPD's so i can use the bike in jeans and trainers as i did last night meeting my wife at a pub, and had no problem at all sweeping past some of the club/lycra. it really doesn't make much if any difference.

+1 I am exactly the same with my Tricross. I have the clip side for long road stretches and use the flat side for the city section when I am constantly stop / starting.

You never know - the poor guy has had his £50 commuting hack stolen / broken / bent and he's been forced to use his uber-bike in the meantime. Knowing that he has to stop / start in the city he's fitted the flats to it.

DonDaddyD

Rockbuddy wrote:

Just put this question out there, 'cos there seems to be quite a few people on this thread that are adamant you can't ride a £2+ bike properly without some sort of clip, preferrably "clipless" (a contradiction in terms ). Has anyone here actually ridden a £2k+ "superbike" with flats and the same bike with clips for comparison?

Actually yes I have. I rode both a Mortirolo and the Kharma I own now with flats during the test ride. Given that these bikes are a scale down from the Izoard I feel secure in trusting my actual first hand experience.

My Giant SCR (£350 - £400) also came with toe clips, I've since put SPD-sl's on the bike. Clipless made a huge difference to the performance and riding of that as well.

How much different was it, was it totally unrideable??? Was it as slow or slower than your cheap bike? I'd be really interested to know the answer to this. Cheers

It was very different actually, the riding postion and technique used (given my hand positions on narrow handle bars and tyres) made it uncomfortable going up hill, annoying when trying to sprint and getting out of the seat difficult compared to having clipless pedals. (It's why they were invented....)

On a medium frame Kharma, given the lively ride and race like riding position, anything more than 10mins and the flat pedals would have been impossible to get along with.

Unridable? No. Quickly uncomfortable and clearly pointless given the price, design and intended use of the bike? Yes.

Had it been a hybrid or mountain bike where weight distribution is applied differently mostly across the flat handlebars and balance is aided by the fatter tyres then flats wouldn't have been as bad (again in my experience). On a racey road bike, yes it does and the difference is apparent and clear.

il_principe

DonDaddyD wrote:

Pinerello's

How many times DDD, how many times? It's PinArello not PinErello. FFS!

stuaff

lost_in_thought wrote:

Boys, boys! It's a bundle of carbon and alloy, not a pony!

Personally I think you're daft. I like putting nice things on my nice bike, but I don't think everyone has to.

Maybe he has a medical reason. Maybe he's got the bike on C2W and is nervous of SPDs. Maybe he puts speedplays on it on the weekend but commutes on flats. Whatever the reason, if he wants flats let him have them! Poor sod. I'm going to go find him and give him a hug.

Later though, I really ought to go to work. :oops:

+1 (Except for the hug!).

DonDaddyD

lost_in_thought wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Now if you'd said it was being mistreated - rusty chain, wonky wheels, no care, then I'd be agreeing with you. It is a crime to treat any bike like that, even a BSO, but all the more so for a machine like that Wilier.

Your contradicting yourself here. Some would argue that having flat pedals is mistreating a bike of that calibre, price and design.

Boys, boys! It's a bundle of carbon and alloy, not a pony!

Personally I think you're daft. I like putting nice things on my nice bike, but I don't think everyone has to.

Maybe he has a medical reason. Maybe he's got the bike on C2W and is nervous of SPDs. Maybe he puts speedplays on it on the weekend but commutes on flats. Whatever the reason, if he wants flats let him have them! Poor sod. I'm going to go find him and give him a hug.

Later though, I really ought to go to work. :oops:

What pedals do you have on your made to measure maxima?

Did you use the same pedals as was on your Bowery?

Why did you make a thread asking what pedals?

Rockbuddy

@ DDD: So basically what you are saying is that you are used to clips / clipless and didn't like / get along with the flats?
So to answer my question was the Kharma on flats a worse ride than your SCR 3.0 with spds? OR to put it another way if you had to would you rather have your SCR 3.0 with clips than your Kuota Kharma with flats?

stuaff

DonDaddyD wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Now if you'd said it was being mistreated - rusty chain, wonky wheels, no care, then I'd be agreeing with you. It is a crime to treat any bike like that, even a BSO, but all the more so for a machine like that Wilier.

Your contradicting yourself here. Some would argue that having flat pedals is mistreating a bike of that calibre, price and design.

Boys, boys! It's a bundle of carbon and alloy, not a pony!

Personally I think you're daft. I like putting nice things on my nice bike, but I don't think everyone has to.

Maybe he has a medical reason. Maybe he's got the bike on C2W and is nervous of SPDs. Maybe he puts speedplays on it on the weekend but commutes on flats. Whatever the reason, if he wants flats let him have them! Poor sod. I'm going to go find him and give him a hug.

Later though, I really ought to go to work. :oops:

What pedals do you have on your made to measure maxima?

Did you use the same pedals as was on your Bowery?

Why did you make a thread asking what pedals?

An obvious answer would be personal choice.....

Bikerbaboon

lost_in_thought wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Now if you'd said it was being mistreated - rusty chain, wonky wheels, no care, then I'd be agreeing with you. It is a crime to treat any bike like that, even a BSO, but all the more so for a machine like that Wilier.

Your contradicting yourself here. Some would argue that having flat pedals is mistreating a bike of that calibre, price and design.

Boys, boys! It's a bundle of carbon and alloy, not a pony!

:

Ahh see you are wrong... sooooooo wrong.
This bike is DDD's dream bike. its like that boy or girl you went to school with and fancied so bad it made you unable to speak every time you see them.

But ahhhhh your mate pulls said deam boy or girl........ It hurts bad to see any one else with them but they are happy so its ok ish...but THEN your mate cheats on the dream person


thats how DDD feels and i get it i realy do.

If i ever saw a person bimbering down the road on a scott spark LTD with slicks and flats on with a shopping basket and a rusty chain on it i would break down and cry.

Its like using hte mona lisa for loo roll..... if you have the cash you could do it but its just not right.

DDD i feel your pain.

roger_merriman

what sort of flats was he using? as there are flats and flats most road flats are frankly a waste of time they offer very poor levels of grip, MTB ones can be very good though they tend to be big and heavy.

which ever way one does it the aim is to get a secure platform be that flats or clipless,

oh and it's quite possible to ride bikes even with out, i rode a rather nice scott while in Melbourne and a track bike, both had clipless pedals but i had no matching shoes made no differnace at least to the outright speed.

DonDaddyD

@ Jash: :evil: Why don't you put Flat mountain bike pedals on his Pinerello/Pinarello... Nuns in Italy will be crying...

Anyway, there is also the passion aspect as well, a person buys a Wilier Izoard, you kind of expect them to put wheels, bottle cages and tyres that match the colour scheme.

You half expect them to adorn the bike with with a Carbon Campag groupset or Shimano Ultegra - nothing less (the complete bike isn't sold with anything less).

Red, white and black lycra matching the bike colour scheme (as this guy had on) follows.

After all this self indulgence and giving in to the inner tart you don't expect to see flat pedals.

What's next an Aston Martin with steel wheels, hub caps and brown paint work?

always_tyred

I think this guy probably had diamonds on the soles of his shoes.

cee

is it possible to have a medical reason for not using clipless pedals??? knees??

what if he has a note from his doctor...or from his mum to say 'johnny can't ride clipless anymore because he has ruined his knees and has just had an operation and the foot/pedal position in spds are making his recovery impossible, so the switch to flats is temporary and for legitimate medical reasons so back the fark off bike snobs!'

* please note...I am not saying this is possible...just asking if it is.

il_principe

Rockbuddy wrote:

@ DDD: So basically what you are saying is that you are used to clips / clipless and didn't like / get along with the flats?
So to answer my question was the Kharma on flats a worse ride than your SCR 3.0 with spds? OR to put it another way if you had to would you rather have your SCR 3.0 with clips than your Kuota Kharma with flats?

Rock - riding any kind of road bike with flats is ok, but it's far from ideal. Kinda like limiting the revs in a Lambo. I wouldn't put flats on my roadie if you paid me, you try riding decent mileage at a decent av speed on a roadie in flats, wouldn't be much fun. In fact I'd bet good money that if DDD did two flat out laps of RP, once with clipless once with flats, the clipless time would be a fair bit faster. It's not a case of "not getting on" it's a case of confidence and efficiency. Personally I don't buy the whole "flats in traffic" argument either. I started commuting on flats like most, and quickly went clipless. My left foot clips and unclips at lights etc without me really having to think about it. It doesn't cost me any time at all, and IME is safer - no risk of the shoe sliding off the pedal, as used to happen with the flats (esp in wet weather) often with painful results.

il_principe

cee wrote:

is it possible to have a medical reason for not using clipless pedals??? knees??

what if he has a note from his doctor...or from his mum to say 'johnny can't ride clipless anymore because he has ruined his knees and has just had an operation and the foot/pedal position in spds are making his recovery impossible, so the switch to flats is temporary and for legitimate medical reasons so back the fark off bike snobs!'

* please note...I am not saying this is possible...just asking if it is.

Doubt it. You could just use pedals with free float - ie Speedplay. Lets face it, rightly or wrongly, it is a little odd.

roger_merriman

DonDaddyD wrote:

@ Jash: :evil: Why don't you put Flat mountain bike pedals on his Pinerello/Pinarello... Nuns in Italy will be crying...

Anyway, there is also the passion aspect as well, a person buys a Wilier Izoard, you kind of expect them to put wheels, bottle cages and tyres that match the colour scheme.

You half expect them to adorn the bike with with a Carbon Campag groupset or Shimano Ultegra - nothing less (the complete bike isn't sold with anything less).

Red, white and black lycra matching the bike colour scheme (as this guy had on) follows.

After all this self indulgence and giving in to the inner tart you don't expect to see flat pedals.

What's next an Aston Martin with steel wheels, hub caps and brown paint work?

i don't think any one is disagreeing that it's a little odd, just saying he may have reasons.

gethin.norman

flat pedals is almost as bad as a carbon bike with a compact chainset. I mean what is the point of buying a carbon racing bike then putting girly (apologies to any girls) gears on it



(this is meant at least partially in jest)

always_tyred

Maybe its like wearing a suit and trainers. In some circles, it might be cool.

I doubt it.

and anyway, to me its more like wearing a suit with wellies. Just a bit Worzel.

roger_merriman

jashburnham wrote:

Rockbuddy wrote:

@ DDD: So basically what you are saying is that you are used to clips / clipless and didn't like / get along with the flats?
So to answer my question was the Kharma on flats a worse ride than your SCR 3.0 with spds? OR to put it another way if you had to would you rather have your SCR 3.0 with clips than your Kuota Kharma with flats?

Rock - riding any kind of road bike with flats is ok, but it's far from ideal. Kinda like limiting the revs in a Lambo. I wouldn't put flats on my roadie if you paid me, you try riding decent mileage at a decent av speed on a roadie in flats, wouldn't be much fun. In fact I'd bet good money that if DDD did two flat out laps of RP, once with clipless once with flats, the clipless time would be a fair bit faster. It's not a case of "not getting on" it's a case of confidence and efficiency. Personally I don't buy the whole "flats in traffic" argument either. I started commuting on flats like most, and quickly went clipless. My left foot clips and unclips at lights etc without me really having to think about it. It doesn't cost me any time at all, and IME is safer - no risk of the shoe sliding off the pedal, as used to happen with the flats (esp in wet weather) often with painful results.

the ride though london last sunday really sold me the use of SPD's at least in town, easy to clip in and out, (though i can trackstand for a very little while) when i do ride the bike with out being clipped in it's the starting stopping that i really miss them.

il_principe

gethin.norman wrote:

flat pedals is almost as bad as a carbon bike with a compact chainset. I mean what is the point of buying a carbon racing bike then putting girly (apologies to any girls) gears on it



(this is meant at least partially in jest)

I'll bite! Depends on where you're gonna be riding it. I bought my Carbon bike prior to doing my first ever Etape, agreed with the guys in the LBS that a compact would be advisable, glad I did.

roger_merriman

jashburnham wrote:

gethin.norman wrote:

flat pedals is almost as bad as a carbon bike with a compact chainset. I mean what is the point of buying a carbon racing bike then putting girly (apologies to any girls) gears on it



(this is meant at least partially in jest)

I'll bite! Depends on where you're gonna be riding it. I bought my Carbon bike prior to doing my first ever Etape, agreed with the guys in the LBS that a compact would be advisable, glad I did.

if you go one some of the steeper hills in the beacons you'll be glad of it as well, uk seems to on the whole do short and sharp.

cee

jashburnham wrote:

Doubt it. You could just use pedals with free float - ie Speedplay. Lets face it, rightly or wrongly, it is a little odd.

on a race bike?? yes...a little.

jedster

Anyone care to bite on this?

Like I say, a good connection to the pedals is IMO more important than a few lbs of weight, a stiffer frame or smoother shifting.

I'm right aren't I?

J

DavidTQ

cee wrote:

is it possible to have a medical reason for not using clipless pedals??? knees??

what if he has a note from his doctor...or from his mum to say 'johnny can't ride clipless anymore because he has ruined his knees and has just had an operation and the foot/pedal position in spds are making his recovery impossible, so the switch to flats is temporary and for legitimate medical reasons so back the fark off bike snobs!'

* please note...I am not saying this is possible...just asking if it is.

I had actually completely forgotten that stage of cycling I have an alignment issue caused by collapsed arches, basically my feet splay, and holding them straight ahead gets painfull quickly. Eventually my problem was solved with some orthotics that make it relatively comfortable for me to have my feet pointing more forwards.

It is entirely possible to have something that makes using clipless or toe clips painfull, I was completely unaware of the cause of my knee pains or discomfort using any form of clips until I visited a sports physio... The "issue" had been there for years and progressed so slowly that I just assumed that was natural...

These days the orthotics are so much part of my life that I forget about them. I actually now find I get uncomfortable walking even barefoot without them. They are always present.

My health insurance as normal managed to find a way to worm out of doing anything, the wonderful NHS doctor prescribed lots of ibuprofen, when that didnt work, the NHS physio (who seemed completely stumped) suggested some weird stretching exercises - which although I stuck to were useless, eventually I went to a private sports physio, who within seconds of me taking of my shoes told me exactly what was wrong and what to do about it, at cost to their own income - they could have suggested a prolonged course of all sorts of therapies, but instead sent me away with the advice that would mean they wouldnt need to see me again. Whats more the physio in question refused any payment for that one session :shock: They were genuinely glad to help :shock:, and I had always assumed private health care work was for people only interested in making lots of money...

il_principe

roger merriman wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

gethin.norman wrote:

flat pedals is almost as bad as a carbon bike with a compact chainset. I mean what is the point of buying a carbon racing bike then putting girly (apologies to any girls) gears on it



(this is meant at least partially in jest)

I'll bite! Depends on where you're gonna be riding it. I bought my Carbon bike prior to doing my first ever Etape, agreed with the guys in the LBS that a compact would be advisable, glad I did.

if you go one some of the steeper hills in the beacons you'll be glad of it as well, uk seems to on the whole do short and sharp.

Oh yeah! I remember climbing Gospel pass in Feb, when we hit the exposed bit near the top the wind was blowing a gale right in our faces, I was in 34/25 and barely moving, Tom was grinding on his triple (and he's a powerful bloke) Will was on a double and nearly fell off several times. We all agreed 2 things: 1: that Will was getting a compact for the Etape and 2: that if we'd not had each other to shout encouragement at we'd have got off and walked to the summit. Now Gospel 'aint really steep but that wind was unreal.

I'm sticking with my compact for now!

DonDaddyD

Rockbuddy wrote:

@ DDD: So basically what you are saying is that you are used to clips / clipless and didn't like / get along with the flats?
So to answer my question was the Kharma on flats a worse ride than your SCR 3.0 with spds? OR to put it another way if you had to would you rather have your SCR 3.0 with clips than your Kuota Kharma with flats?

The above is solely dependant on the type of bikes we are comparing (which is my point). My Kharma rides and is designed to ride differently to the SCR.

My Kharma has a shorter wheelbase, shorter headtube, narrower bars and has a more aggressive riding position (much like an Izoard). My SCR is larger, longer wheel base, longer headtube and wider handle bars and has a more forgiving riding position. Less demanding pedals would suit my SCR over the Kharma.

I wouldn't however in any instance prefer to descend down hill or ride at speed on the SCR over the Kharma.