Bye bye Astana?
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He's ridden for USPS, Rabobank, Gerolsteiner, Discovery and now Astana. His performances, in relative terms, at the only team on there that has any claims, fanciful though they may be now, to having any kind of anti-doping stance were nowhere near as good as he's been before and since.Dave_1 wrote:3rd in 2001 Vuelta, and again very consistent as you point out...the EPO test comes in and he's still good..blood passport up and running AND he's still good, didn't use CERA by the looks of it...no chance you will give him the benefit of the doubt? He deserves a little more -but agree Bruyneel as manager is no great sign of being a clean rider as he will almost certainly have blood doped at ONCE. Also, AC only good once with JB so...you are saying both dubious?
It's clear to me that Bruyneel has run some kind of program at USPS and then Discovery so why would he stop that when he moved to Astana? His riders still ride in the same way, deploying the same tactics as before.
Before anyone mentions the name Damsgaard, can they first point me at the results of any testing he undertook.0 -
It's clear to me that Bruyneel has run some kind of program at USPS and then Discovery so why would he stop that when he moved to Astana? His riders still ride in the same way, deploying the same tactics as before.
Does anyone find it strange that a rider on an Bruyneel team has never been busted (with the exception of Basso because of his problems at CSC).0 -
Because they're very clever - Landis knew about it was extremely pi$$ed when he was busted, but probably had a suit slapped on him to shut up. Also witness the large number of ex-riders who have tested positive - Hamilton, Heras, Landis....or are you trying to tell us that they only resorted to 'preparation' once they left the team? This has been discussed at huge length over the years.Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..0
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Not really. Let's put aside the fantasy that one winning team could have been riding clean and beating those with massive organised doping.Clemson Cycling wrote:Does anyone find it strange that a rider on an Bruyneel team has never been busted (with the exception of Basso because of his problems at CSC).
Remember, most riders get caught when they make mistakes. For example Ricco or Schumacher taking CERA and thinking there was no test, or Vinokourov testing for blood doping which probably happened because some team soigneur got the blood bags mixed up. Others get caught because of police raids and money trails.
Given there was no EPO test for years and that autologous blood doping is still undetectable, you need a big mistake to get caught. Keep it in house and run by the best in the business, like Dr Ferrari, and you don't have to worry.
Besides, no one tested positive for years at Rabobank or T-Mobile yet in time they were caught. Perhaps it is a matter of time until the allegations of a motorbike with insulated panniers transporting blood bags are proven correct; or maybe the retrotesting of the Giro samples from 2008 will expose others?0 -
Clemson Cycling wrote:It's clear to me that Bruyneel has run some kind of program at USPS and then Discovery so why would he stop that when he moved to Astana? His riders still ride in the same way, deploying the same tactics as before.
Does anyone find it strange that a rider on an Bruyneel team has never been busted (with the exception of Basso because of his problems at CSC).
Jesus Manzano was pretty clear that Brunyeel had his own early warning system within UCI.___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
andyp wrote:
He's ridden for USPS, Rabobank, Gerolsteiner, Discovery and now Astana. His performances, in relative terms, at the only team on there that has any claims, fanciful though they may be now, to having any kind of anti-doping stance were nowhere near as good as he's been before and since.Dave_1 wrote:3rd in 2001 Vuelta, and again very consistent as you point out...the EPO test comes in and he's still good..blood passport up and running AND he's still good, didn't use CERA by the looks of it...no chance you will give him the benefit of the doubt? He deserves a little more -but agree Bruyneel as manager is no great sign of being a clean rider as he will almost certainly have blood doped at ONCE. Also, AC only good once with JB so...you are saying both dubious?
It's clear to me that Bruyneel has run some kind of program at USPS and then Discovery so why would he stop that when he moved to Astana? His riders still ride in the same way, deploying the same tactics as before.
Before anyone mentions the name Damsgaard, can they first point me at the results of any testing he undertook.
can't argue with that...if anything Bruyneel's other skills than languages, will be what Saiz's-ONCE work experience gave him-expertise in blood doping or EPO use-as per Zulle's confession a decade back on that team....but to be fair..Levi Leiphmer seems a decent bloke, no? He could have found some pretext to attempt to take time off Contador in last year's Vuelta and did not e.g. Lejeretta attacking Melcho Mauri in 1991 , inault-Lemond etc, same at the 07 TDF-LL seemed quite sportsmanlike to me...and you got to admire the way he's crafted that TT position..also, no blabbering to the media about how great he is going to be, not much bid headed talk from what i read..0 -
Some of the money has been paid by the Kazaks now. Not all of it but a portion.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0
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I hear they cancelled the meeting with McQuaid yesterday, so assumed they would either pay up or walk away.0
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Quite so.calvjones wrote:Jesus Manzano was pretty clear that Brunyeel had his own early warning system within UCI.I want to give you an example, something I've never spoken about except to the police up until now. It concerns one of the four Spanish Laboratories credited by the UCI. This laboratory who is in charge of sending the "UCI" vampires (doctors)to take the samples during the Vuelta and other races is the same lab that's in charge of the doctor visits to the cyclists, they follow the cyclists and give them the stamp of approval on their licenses. The owner of this clinic, a renowned hemotologist, called Walter Viru, who is one of the doctors for Kelme to alert them the day before the uci vampires were coming to take the samples from the cyclist. And he did the same thing with Del Moral, the doctor for the U.S. Postal team and then Discovery, a good friend of his.
Although practically every English language cycling new source cheerfully printed everything else Manzano said, whilst ignoring this part of Manzano's interview, I see no reason why this particular point should be given any less credibility than Manzano's other revelations.
To see the original interview go to:
http://www.multriman.com/news/riendechange.pdf0 -
Glass half full/empty time as Bruyneel and Co still opt for the faded kit protest but the team sponsors have made a payment.0
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Clemson Cycling wrote:Does anyone find it strange that a rider on an Bruyneel team has never been busted (with the exception of Basso because of his problems at CSC).
Giampaolo Mondini and Benoit Joachim say hi.0 -
Er, has anyone seen Vladimir Gusev lately?0
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and still we wait...cframe wrote:
Livestrong & Astana? Guess we'll know what's happening soon0 -
There is an story in L'Equipe today that should offer a bit more fuel for the speculations. Apparently the Astana team riding in the Tour of Catalonia claims it has always been paid and there have been no irregularities. They also did not change maillots in the style of the Italian team.
"The entire staff of the team in Spain (mechanics and assistants) have made it clear that they have never had the smallest omission ("le moindre oubli", I am not sure how exactly to translate that) on the part of the sponsor since the beginning of the season".
So, has someone been telling porkies, again? :roll:"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Adds quite a bit of fuel to the fire I'd say. Not sure which staff were in Spain, but on the riding side it certainly seemed to be a very definite second team with three of the Kazaks riding.
Still wouldn't be the first time this particular tale has been spun differently would it.0 -
micron wrote:T
I'd be really interested, Arkibal and MG, to hear why you think he's the next big thing. It may be that, when debated civilly and without the personal insults, we'd have common ground.
Do me a favour would you Micron...............please dont attribute words to myself that i didnt say............theres a good girl.Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
Very interesting if some of the team say that they havent had problems with payments. But wouldnt the payments be made from the sponsors to team management ? I cant see that each of the sponsors would be paying so many roubles to each rider - that sounds pretty complex ?
I would have thought that each sponsor pays a set amount to Bruyneels set up ?
Something doesnt add up here....0 -
Pokerface wrote:micron wrote:The civility of launching personal attacks on people who disagree with your viewpoint rather escapes me, I'm afraid. It's an unfortunate feature of the argument of certain posters who feel honour bound to defend their heroes by personally attacking other posters. I'd be quite happy to debate 'civilily' with either yourself or Moray but that cuts both ways. Making a personal comment about a poster is not analogous with continuing a debate about whether a rider deserves his favourite status or not.
Personally, I think it says a lot about the sport when a rider with Leipheimer's modest palmares, at the age of 37, suddenly becomes a hot favourite for a GT win (I've even seen posters describe him as the next Double winner), apparently posited entirely on the fact that he can TT a bit better and hang on the wheels a bit better than X or Y.
I'd be really interested, Arkibal and MG, to hear why you think he's the next big thing. It may be that, when debated civilly and without the personal insults, we'd have common ground.
Well - you clearly have it out for the Astana riders, but so be it.
Levi is 35, not 37. Not that it makes a huge difference.
Lance won his last Tour at the age of 35 - so why can't Levi win one now? As I have previously shown, he has consistently placed well in the big Tours and has slowly improved over the years. He has often ridden in support of OTHER riders and has not been the team leader for a GT.
Now he is the leader with other riders supporting him. He has always been able to climb and is a GREAT TT rider - something that often wins GT.
I think he can and will win the Giro - based on his TT skills. But he won't win the Tour. Contador will.
Your critiques of Astana riders and Levi have been pretty vague and almost childish also. While not launching personal attacks - just saying a rider is boring doesn't add much to the debate - especially when you keep getting your facts wrong.
Armstrong was in fact 33 when he won his last tour, no one has won older than that unless they is lying about their age.0 -
don key wrote:Armstrong was in fact 33 when he won his last tour, no one has won older than that unless they is lying about their age.
Firmin Lambot, 36 when he won in 1922.0 -
Joop Zoetemelk was 33 too when he won the Tour in 1980.0
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I really cannot see why people are so glad to see the back of Astana or why people have such a problem with LA.
From the videos he has done he seems like a decent down to earth sort of bloke.0 -
I think thats known as working the PR machine.
How's his post race interviews going at the Giro now !?!?! LOL!0 -
Pater wrote:I think thats known as working the PR machine.
How's his post race interviews going at the Giro now !?!?! LOL!
haha haha lol lol. Yep but he isnt giving any!0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:There is an story in L'Equipe today that should offer a bit more fuel for the speculations. Apparently the Astana team riding in the Tour of Catalonia claims it has always been paid and there have been no irregularities. They also did not change maillots in the style of the Italian team.
"The entire staff of the team in Spain (mechanics and assistants) have made it clear that they have never had the smallest omission ("le moindre oubli", I am not sure how exactly to translate that) on the part of the sponsor since the beginning of the season".
So, has someone been telling porkies, again? :roll:
Chris Horner said the same thing not so long ago. I quote................
Astana's Chris Horner told VeloNews last month that he has always received his monthly paychecks from the team.
"If the check comes, I am happy – but I know if Alberto (Contador) didn’t get paid, he would have a new contract tomorrow – I’m sure Levi (Leipheimer) could find a job whenever he needed to. I would assume all the big guys are being paid," Horner said. "I’m always working with the team, while having financial issues in the back of my mind, but so far I’m being paid, and being paid pretty well."
http://www.velonews.com/article/91702/a ... astana-kit
Hmmmm.......0 -
But unlike LA and LL, Zoetemelk was a contender from day one, placing second in his first outing at 23. In fact, go back to the pre-epo days, and you'll find that most of the 'big' GT riders did well at an early age. Lemond third in his debut at 24, Fignon won in his debut at 23, Hinault won in his debut at 24.Kléber wrote:Joop Zoetemelk was 33 too when he won the Tour in 1980.0 -
shogunsteve wrote:I really cannot see why people are so glad to see the back of Astana or why people have such a problem with LA.
From the videos he has done he seems like a decent down to earth sort of bloke.
Seems is one of those great words in the dick shaun harry.0
