Bye bye Astana?

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Comments

  • micron
    micron Posts: 1,843
    That a rider like Leipheimer can be considered one of the greatest stage racers in the world says a great deal about the state of the sport really :roll: 57 victories, most in domestic US races, placings at the Tour and the Vuelta because, crucially, he never actually does enough to win a race, just grinds out the places.

    But of course I forget that the real reason for the veneration is the language he speaks - I wonder if another rider with these palmares from, say, Kazakhstan would be hyped in quite the same way?
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    There's no pleasing some people. :roll:

    I guess unless you win every stage in every major stage race and take the overalls in those races - you can't be considered a good rider.

    Even Contador, who has won every Grand Tour he's entered as of late isn't a great stage racer ion your books.
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    micron wrote:
    That a rider like Leipheimer can be considered one of the greatest stage racers in the world says a great deal about the state of the sport really :roll: 57 victories, most in domestic US races, placings at the Tour and the Vuelta because, crucially, he never actually does enough to win a race, just grinds out the places.

    But of course I forget that the real reason for the veneration is the language he speaks - I wonder if another rider with these palmares from, say, Kazakhstan would be hyped in quite the same way?

    Does it matter how he gets his placings in Grand Tours surely the point is he gets them, Levi isnt real top drawer but he is a decent Grand Tour rider with a half decent palmares in GTs,his nationality or the language he speaks shouldnt come into it but i cant help think if he spoke Belgian or Spanish youd be giving him just a bit more credit than you are.Quite sad actually that a mans nationality or language should be the factor in how he is viewed by others.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    andyp wrote:
    If your team's success is based on the success of Leipheimer, Horner and Armstrong then I think the phrase 'past it' is more than apt. You'll get a maximum of one more season out of those three.


    You were right when you said "if"
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • kozzo
    kozzo Posts: 182
    if he spoke Belgian ...

    I have to ask my wife about her mother tongue... :shock:
    After 16 years of marriage maybe I will learn something new :roll:
  • micron
    micron Posts: 1,843
    My criticism of Leipheimer is based on the fact that, as has been mentioned, he's not real top drawer. My issue wouldn't be with his nationality - but time and again, Tom Danielson being the most notable, we see middling English speaking riders hyped up as the greatest thing since sliced bread though their palmares don't necessarily reflect this.

    andyp that was pretty much my point - how much longer will the 37 year olds continue to perform at the highest level before either a) they crack or b) someone smells a very big rat?
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    micron wrote:
    My criticism of Leipheimer is based on the fact that, as has been mentioned, he's not real top drawer. My issue wouldn't be with his nationality - but time and again, Tom Danielson being the most notable, we see middling English speaking riders hyped up as the greatest thing since sliced bread though their palmares don't necessarily reflect this.

    andyp that was pretty much my point - how much longer will the 37 year olds continue to perform at the highest level before either a) they crack or b) someone smells a very big rat?


    I've never understood the phrase top drawer. Isn't that where you keep your pants and socks?

    Anyhoo. Levi is one of the best GT riders at the moment. He's not a great champion and doesn't have the spark of brilliance of a really special rider but should be highly respected nonetheless.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,485
    Timoid. wrote:
    Anyhoo. Levi is one of the best GT riders at the moment. He's not a great champion and doesn't have the spark of brilliance of a really special rider but should be highly respected nonetheless.

    He's the poor man's Cadel Evans. Not quite as good as a rider and duller to watch. Has he ever actually put his nose in the wind?
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    andyp wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:
    Anyhoo. Levi is one of the best GT riders at the moment. He's not a great champion and doesn't have the spark of brilliance of a really special rider but should be highly respected nonetheless.

    He's the poor man's Cadel Evans. Not quite as good as a rider and duller to watch. Has he ever actually put his nose in the wind?


    Did I say he was interesting? He makes Menchov look like Chiapucci.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • micron
    micron Posts: 1,843
    Thank you both for so succinctly summarising my objections to Leipheimer :lol:
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    Timoid. wrote:
    andyp wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:
    Anyhoo. Levi is one of the best GT riders at the moment. He's not a great champion and doesn't have the spark of brilliance of a really special rider but should be highly respected nonetheless.

    He's the poor man's Cadel Evans. Not quite as good as a rider and duller to watch. Has he ever actually put his nose in the wind?


    Did I say he was interesting? He makes Menchov look like Chiapucci.

    Ahhh so the fact he is dull and doesnt attack too much makes you diss his palmares.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • micron
    micron Posts: 1,843
    For those unacquainted with the 'depth' of those very palmares:

    http://velopalmares.free.fr/leipheimer.htm
  • markwalker
    markwalker Posts: 953
    tis true, leipheimer is so boring to watch it hurts my stomach Tactics be dammed, show us what youve got :)
  • Arkibal
    Arkibal Posts: 850
    micron, you are starting to sound like aurelio.

    His/her hatred towards LA matches your hatred to anyone associated to JB.

    Take a deep breath and a reality check before posting BS.

    Why anyone with your attitude is even following this beautiful sport amazes me.
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    Moray Gub wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:
    andyp wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:
    Anyhoo. Levi is one of the best GT riders at the moment. He's not a great champion and doesn't have the spark of brilliance of a really special rider but should be highly respected nonetheless.

    He's the poor man's Cadel Evans. Not quite as good as a rider and duller to watch. Has he ever actually put his nose in the wind?


    Did I say he was interesting? He makes Menchov look like Chiapucci.

    Ahhh so the fact he is dull and doesnt attack too much makes you diss his palmares.


    Read my first quote before you react.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,485
    Moray Gub wrote:
    Ahhh so the fact he is dull and doesnt attack too much makes you diss his palmares.
    I didn't see any dissing of his palmares. He's a solid GC contender in GTs.

    He's just dull, which we seem to be agreed on.
  • micron
    micron Posts: 1,843
    Arkibal, I suspect I was following this beautiful sport when you were in nappies - and the baleful influence of Johann 'The Hog' Bruyneel and his cronies has done much to destroy that beauty, for me at least. Still chacun a son/sa gout n'est-ce-pas? One man's wheelsucking borefest is another man's tactical genius. And so it goes.

    mark, couldn't agree more :wink:
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    micron wrote:
    Arkibal, I suspect I was following this beautiful sport when you were in nappies - and the baleful influence of Johann 'The Hog' Bruyneel and his cronies has done much to destroy that beauty, for me at least. Still chacun a son/sa gout n'est-ce-pas? One man's wheelsucking borefest is another man's tactical genius. And so it goes.

    mark, couldn't agree more :wink:

    SO what you're saying is that you're old and miserable rather than young and inexperienced.
    :P
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    micron wrote:
    - my argument is that the races they've actually won are not the big week long stage races but the small stuff,

    Dont know what you categorise as small stuff but i wouldnt put Pais Vasco in that category.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • leguape
    leguape Posts: 986
    Kléber wrote:
    Discovery pulled out as early after they got an insider tip off about Bruyneel's ways but there will be new sponsors who don't mind.

    Or that the President who set up the deal as his pet project got launched by the new CEO in a Discovery networks bout of corporate blood letting. And possibly because the deal had been predicated on Armstrong as the audience driver which wasn't really going to work with him taking retirement earlier than expected meaning potential for ROI disappearing faster than a buy to let mortgage.
    http://www.atomicecho.com/cycling
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    markwalker wrote:
    tis true, leipheimer is so boring to watch it hurts my stomach Tactics be dammed, show us what youve got :)

    For me the most fascinating aspect to pro bike racing is the tactics, thats what makes it the sport it is.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • Arkibal
    Arkibal Posts: 850
    edited May 2009
    micron wrote:
    Arkibal, I suspect I was following this beautiful sport when you were in nappies - and the baleful influence of Johann 'The Hog' Bruyneel and his cronies has done much to destroy that beauty, for me at least. Still chacun a son/sa gout n'est-ce-pas? One man's wheelsucking borefest is another man's tactical genius. And so it goes.

    mark, couldn't agree more :wink:

    lol, I've been following cycling for 15 years, and I still manage to have a level headed attitude towards the sport, something you and aurelio fail miserably.

    your rants against LA/JB are ridiculous, they did not invent doping, it has been there all the time, Simpson's death was a sad proof of that, and that was over 40 years ago!

    maybe I need to post more to be more "believable" :wink:

    I really don't mind about the doping, it's in every top sport, no one can deny that. But why cycling fans want to gloat on it amazes me.

    and Micron, I'm 57 years old, you must be very old then...
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    micron wrote:
    Arkibal, I suspect I was following this beautiful sport when you were in nappies

    I am struggling to see what difference that would make, does that somehow make you more knowledgeable or what ?
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • Arkibal
    Arkibal Posts: 850
    Moray Gub wrote:
    micron wrote:
    Arkibal, I suspect I was following this beautiful sport when you were in nappies

    I am struggling to see what difference that would make, does that somehow make you more knowledgeable or what ?

    +1
    don't forget the post count!
    :roll:
  • micron
    micron Posts: 1,843
    Not at all - I would never claim the superior knowledge of the tactical geniuses of this board :roll:

    Arkibal, take this as you wish, but you always come across as a tennage boy to me :wink:
  • cframe
    cframe Posts: 171
    http://twitter.com/LIVESTRONG/status/1805754234

    Livestrong & Astana? Guess we'll know what's happening soon
    How's that for a slice of fried gold?
  • markwalker
    markwalker Posts: 953
    micron wrote:
    Not at all - I would never claim the superior knowledge of the tactical geniuses of this board :roll:

    Arkibal, take this as you wish, but you always come across as a tennage boy to me :wink:

    And thats because............
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,711
    HUGE news coming in a few minutes.......over two hours ago? :?

    Now, I'm reading a rumour that the Kazakh petrolium boys are stumping up the cash owed and Astana will remain.

    Watch this space, I suppose........
    micron wrote:
    Arkibal, take this as you wish, but you always come across as a tennage boy to me :wink:
    If I'd had to guess, I would have said the same. A bit excitable for an old geezer.....
    .....then again, so is Dennis. :)
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • micron
    micron Posts: 1,843
    And here's me a relatively young lass with a toddler coming across all old and miserable - aint the Internet interesting? :wink: Still, that level of passion is good to see in older men I always think :lol:

    Funny that Astana's backers should be stumping up the cash - Hogstrong will just have to get their PT license some other way if that rumour is true.
  • stagehopper
    stagehopper Posts: 1,593
    cframe wrote:


    Livestrong & Astana? Guess we'll know what's happening soon

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