Box Hill Challenge 2009

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  • Red GT
    Red GT Posts: 40
    Name..........................Weight....Time.....Month.....TOR
    mark_d.......................60kg........6.31......Mar.......Skinny rouleur
    Red GT.......................78kg........6:34......Apr........Sportive
    Art Vandelay..............76kg........6.44......Feb........Sportive
    MatHammond..............86kg........6.45......Mar........Leisure
    andyp.........................72kg........6:46......Mar........Sportive
    JibberJim...................77kg........6.51.......Mar........Goaless
    Phips ..........................64kg.......7:06......14 Mar.........Sportive
    Genki...........................74kg.......7:07......Mar.........Cat3 and Sportive
    Chrisw28.....................82kg.......7.11......Mar........Bit of everything!
    pinkbikini......................85kg.......7.20......Mar.........3rdCat/sportive
    RedGreenBaron..........70kg........7.25......Feb........Sportive
    Funkin ........................78kg........7.30......Mar.......Tri
    Fuji-Mackers . ............78kgs......7.30..... Feb.........Sportive
    Felgen.........................96kgs.....7.34......Mar.........Cat4 *ahem*/'leisure'
    Phips ..........................64kg.......7:49......Mar.........Sportive
    Homercles..................90kg........8.00......Mar........Sportive
    KingstonGraham........74kg........8.06......Mar........Tri/Sportive
    Rich-Ti........................88kg........8:16......Feb........Sportive
    Batch78.....................92kg ish..8:16.......Mar.......Fun!
    thebongolian............75kg........8:17.......Mar......Sportive / commuter
    The Emu......................86kg.......8.31......Feb........Sportive
    Myk-ee........................84kg.......8.42......Mar.........Sportive
    Jonathan V ................77kg.......8.57......Mar..........Sportive
    Steve-M.........................78kg........9.13......Mar.......Commute/Social
    London-Red................85kg........9.21......Feb.......Fitness

    Beautiful day today, shame to waste it!

    What with Richmond Park yesterday and this today I would be grateful if nobody else starts-up a “fastest time around/up somewhere in/near Surrey” page, my legs can’t take it! :shock:
  • pinkbikini
    pinkbikini Posts: 876
    Try and get the most recent table, Red GT - you pushed me back to my old time!
    Good time, BTW, and yes, there are loads of other potential times to do - Ranmore, Hungry Hill, Leith from every direction, etc. And fastest time from Box Hill cafe to Epsom High Street...


    Name..........................Weight....Time.....Month.....TOR
    mark_d.......................60kg........6.31......Mar.......Skinny rouleur
    Red GT.......................78kg........6:34......Apr........Sportive
    Art Vandelay..............76kg........6.44......Feb........Sportive
    MatHammond..............86kg........6.45......Mar........Leisure
    andyp.........................72kg........6:46......Mar........Sportive
    JibberJim...................77kg........6.51.......Mar........Goaless
    Red GT......................78kg........6:53......Mar........Sportive
    pinkbikini......................85kg.......7.02......Mar.........3rdCat/sportive
    Phips ..........................64kg.......7:06......14 Mar.........Sportive
    Genki...........................74kg.......7:07......Mar.........Cat3 and Sportive
    Chrisw28.....................82kg.......7.11......Mar........Bit of everything!
    RedGreenBaron..........70kg........7.25......Feb........Sportive
    Funkin ........................78kg........7.30......Mar.......Tri
    Fuji-Mackers . ............78kgs......7.30..... Feb.........Sportive
    Felgen.........................96kgs.....7.34......Mar.........Cat4 *ahem*/'leisure'
    Phips ..........................64kg.......7:49......Mar.........Sportive
    Homercles..................90kg........8.00......Mar........Sportive
    KingstonGraham........74kg........8.06......Mar........Tri/Sportive
    Rich-Ti........................88kg........8:16......Feb........Sportive
    Batch78.....................92kg ish..8:16.......Mar.......Fun!
    thebongolian............75kg........8:17.......Mar......Sportive / commuter
    The Emu......................86kg.......8.31......Feb........Sportive
    Myk-ee........................84kg.......8.42......Mar.........Sportive
    Jonathan V ................77kg.......8.57......Mar..........Sportive
    Steve-M.........................78kg........9.13......Mar.......Commute/Social
    London-Red................85kg........9.21......Feb.......Fitness
  • Red GT
    Red GT Posts: 40
    Sorry, I’m not very good at this cutting and pasting thing! I upset some people on the Richmond Park 3 lap challenge by lopping them off the list. Less time on the bike and back to computer school for me!

    Not interested in any more challenges........

    ......so where do you start the clock at Ranmore? No, on second thoughts, don't tell me. :D
  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    Me and my mates always used to time Ranmore from the rubbish tip at the bottom to the road speed sign at the top - my record is just under 5 minutes. That used to be my climbing benchmark, much more than Box Hill. Its a far tougher climb, steep ramps and lots of changes in gradient. Good luck!
  • gbs
    gbs Posts: 450
    MatHammond wrote:
    used to time Ranmore from the rubbish tip at the bottom to the road speed sign at the top - my record is just under 5 minutes. That used to be my climbing benchmark, much more than Box Hill. Its a far tougher climb, steep ramps and lots of changes in gradient. Good luck!

    Could you provide map data to identify which road please - this is terra nova for me. I would not wish to claim 4mins 45 secs having climbed the wrong pitch!
    vintage newbie, spinning away
  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    Well here's a link for the tip showing where I time the start from. Its Ranmore Road, as opposed to Ranmore Common Road (another good climb which I find a bit easier). The sign at the top which I count as the finish is as it starts to level off, on the right, just before a big house on the left. Should be fairly obvious which one it is. I'd be interested to hear how you get on. Managed 6 minutes dead last weekend but I'd just done a couple of ascents of Box Hill so was taking it relatively easy.
  • gbs
    gbs Posts: 450
    Matt, thanks for the info. Will try soon.
    vintage newbie, spinning away
  • il_principe
    il_principe Posts: 9,155
    edited April 2009
    Tackled Box today and actually remembered to time it! Hit the bottom 50 miles in having climbed Henhurst, Leith and Raikes lane up to Ranmore Common.

    Not a brilliant time, but not too shabby, annoyed I didn't look at the table first, could have pushed much harder really!:

    Name..........................Weight....Time.....Month.....TOR
    mark_d.......................60kg........6.31......Mar.......Skinny rouleur
    Red GT.......................78kg........6:34......Apr........Sportive
    Art Vandelay..............76kg........6.44......Feb........Sportive
    MatHammond..............86kg........6.45......Mar........Leisure
    andyp.........................72kg........6:46......Mar........Sportive
    JibberJim...................77kg........6.51.......Mar........Goaless
    Red GT......................78kg........6:53......Mar........Sportive
    pinkbikini......................85kg.......7.02......Mar.........3rdCat/sportive
    Phips ..........................64kg.......7:06......14 Mar.........Sportive
    Genki...........................74kg.......7:07......Mar.........Cat3 and Sportive
    Chrisw28.....................82kg.......7.11......Mar........Bit of everything!
    RedGreenBaron..........70kg........7.25......Feb........Sportive
    Funkin ........................78kg........7.30......Mar.......Tri
    Fuji-Mackers . ............78kgs......7.30..... Feb.........Sportive
    Felgen.........................96kgs.....7.34......Mar.........Cat4 *ahem*/'leisure'
    Jashburnham..............75 kg.......7.40......Apr..........Sportive/Fitness
    Phips ..........................64kg.......7:49......Mar.........Sportive
    Homercles..................90kg........8.00......Mar........Sportive
    KingstonGraham........74kg........8.06......Mar........Tri/Sportive
    Rich-Ti........................88kg........8:16......Feb........Sportive
    Batch78.....................92kg ish..8:16.......Mar.......Fun!
    thebongolian............75kg........8:17.......Mar......Sportive / commuter
    The Emu......................86kg.......8.31......Feb........Sportive
    Myk-ee........................84kg.......8.42......Mar.........Sportive
    Jonathan V ................77kg.......8.57......Mar..........Sportive
    Steve-M.........................78kg........9.13......Mar.......Commute/Social
    London-Red................85kg........9.21......Feb.......Fitness
  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    Good run up yesterday, not sure how much more I have in me to be honest - hats off to those people that can go under the 6 minute mark!

    Name..........................Weight....Time.....Month.....TOR
    mark_d.......................60kg........6.31......Mar.......Skinny rouleur
    MatHammond..............85kg........6.32......Apr........Leisure
    Red GT.......................78kg........6:34......Apr........Sportive
    Art Vandelay..............76kg........6.44......Feb........Sportive
    andyp.........................72kg........6:46......Mar........Sportive
    JibberJim...................77kg........6.51.......Mar........Goaless
    Red GT......................78kg........6:53......Mar........Sportive
    pinkbikini......................85kg.......7.02......Mar.........3rdCat/sportive
    Phips ..........................64kg.......7:06......14 Mar.........Sportive
    Genki...........................74kg.......7:07......Mar.........Cat3 and Sportive
    Chrisw28.....................82kg.......7.11......Mar........Bit of everything!
    RedGreenBaron..........70kg........7.25......Feb........Sportive
    Funkin ........................78kg........7.30......Mar.......Tri
    Fuji-Mackers . ............78kgs......7.30..... Feb.........Sportive
    Felgen.........................96kgs.....7.34......Mar.........Cat4 *ahem*/'leisure'
    Jashburnham..............75 jg.......7.40......Apr..........Sportive/Fitness
    Phips ..........................64kg.......7:49......Mar.........Sportive
    Homercles..................90kg........8.00......Mar........Sportive
    KingstonGraham........74kg........8.06......Mar........Tri/Sportive
    Rich-Ti........................88kg........8:16......Feb........Sportive
    Batch78.....................92kg ish..8:16.......Mar.......Fun!
    thebongolian............75kg........8:17.......Mar......Sportive / commuter
    The Emu......................86kg.......8.31......Feb........Sportive
    Myk-ee........................84kg.......8.42......Mar.........Sportive
    Jonathan V ................77kg.......8.57......Mar..........Sportive
    Steve-M.........................78kg........9.13......Mar.......Commute/Social
    London-Red................85kg........9.21......Feb.......Fitness
  • gbs
    gbs Posts: 450
    First time in teh Surrey Hill today and first attempt at BH. I will not post it because I stopped to chat to a friend at the carpark at the first bend - the aggregate time was not impressive but better than I expected.

    I was surprised by the poor road quality, B2033, returning to Leatherhead. Am I beng wimpy?
    vintage newbie, spinning away
  • Petromyzon
    Petromyzon Posts: 221
    No, bits of that road are shocking, as are bits of Box Hill Road just before the sharp turn left onto the road you refer to. Some genuinely dangerous bits if it is wet or you are in a close group.
  • chrisw28
    chrisw28 Posts: 187
    edited April 2009
    Hit BH after 80km today, felt good so I gave it a go. I'm not sure if doing box hill earlier in my rides will bring down my time, I always seem to feel better when I've got a comfortable distance in my legs. I dunno....I think it's just a mental thing. :shock:

    Name..........................Weight....Time.....Month.....TOR
    mark_d.......................60kg........6.31......Mar.......Skinny rouleur
    MatHammond..............85kg........6.32......Apr........Leisure
    Red GT.......................78kg........6:34......Apr........Sportive
    Art Vandelay..............76kg........6.44......Feb........Sportive
    Chrisw28.....................82kg.......6.44......Apr........Lazy student
    andyp.........................72kg........6:46......Mar........Sportive
    JibberJim...................77kg........6.51.......Mar........Goaless
    Red GT......................78kg........6:53......Mar........Sportive
    pinkbikini......................85kg.......7.02......Mar.........3rdCat/sportive
    Phips ..........................64kg.......7:06......14 Mar.........Sportive
    Genki...........................74kg.......7:07......Mar.........Cat3 and Sportive
    RedGreenBaron..........70kg........7.25......Feb........Sportive
    Funkin ........................78kg........7.30......Mar.......Tri
    Fuji-Mackers . ............78kgs......7.30..... Feb.........Sportive
    Felgen.........................96kgs.....7.34......Mar.........Cat4 *ahem*/'leisure'
    Jashburnham..............75 jg.......7.40......Apr..........Sportive/Fitness
    Phips ..........................64kg.......7:49......Mar.........Sportive
    Homercles..................90kg........8.00......Mar........Sportive
    KingstonGraham........74kg........8.06......Mar........Tri/Sportive
    Rich-Ti........................88kg........8:16......Feb........Sportive
    Batch78.....................92kg ish..8:16.......Mar.......Fun!
    thebongolian............75kg........8:17.......Mar......Sportive / commuter
    The Emu......................86kg.......8.31......Feb........Sportive
    Myk-ee........................84kg.......8.42......Mar.........Sportive
    Jonathan V ................77kg.......8.57......Mar..........Sportive
    Steve-M.........................78kg........9.13......Mar.......Commute/Social
    London-Red................85kg........9.21......Feb.......Fitness

    EDIT: Mr. Vandelay is not going to like this :lol:
  • felgen
    felgen Posts: 829
    Chris did you sleep too much :shock: ... its April and you posted your time as March..... Good effort anyway that tops (equal tops of course) Art's time...
    Steeds:
    1)Planet X SL Pro carbon
    2)Nelson Pista Singlespeed
    3)Giant Cadex MTB
    4)BeOne Karma MTB
  • chrisw28
    chrisw28 Posts: 187
    Oops my bad, will change it now, thanks for pointing it out :D
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • chrisw28
    chrisw28 Posts: 187
    Thanks phips, but trust me, last time I followed you up there I would have collapsed if I had tried keeping pace with you. :lol:

    That was not a good day on the bike :shock:
  • urrrrrrrrrs
    urrrrrrrrrs Posts: 478
    chrisw28 wrote:
    Hit BH after 80km today, felt good so I gave it a go. I'm not sure if doing box hill earlier in my rides will bring down my time, I always seem to feel better when I've got a comfortable distance in my legs. I dunno....I think it's just a mental thing. :shock:

    Name..........................Weight....Time.....Month.....TOR
    mark_d.......................60kg........6.31......Mar.......Skinny rouleur
    MatHammond..............85kg........6.32......Apr........Leisure
    Red GT.......................78kg........6:34......Apr........Sportive
    Art Vandelay..............76kg........6.44......Feb........Sportive
    Chrisw28.....................82kg.......6.44......Apr........Lazy student
    andyp.........................72kg........6:46......Mar........Sportive
    JibberJim...................77kg........6.51.......Mar........Goaless
    Red GT......................78kg........6:53......Mar........Sportive
    pinkbikini......................85kg.......7.02......Mar.........3rdCat/sportive
    Phips ..........................64kg.......7:06......14 Mar.........Sportive
    Genki...........................74kg.......7:07......Mar.........Cat3 and Sportive
    RedGreenBaron..........70kg........7.25......Feb........Sportive
    Funkin ........................78kg........7.30......Mar.......Tri
    Fuji-Mackers . ............78kgs......7.30..... Feb.........Sportive
    Felgen.........................96kgs.....7.34......Mar.........Cat4 *ahem*/'leisure'
    Jashburnham..............75 jg.......7.40......Apr..........Sportive/Fitness
    Phips ..........................64kg.......7:49......Mar.........Sportive
    Homercles..................90kg........8.00......Mar........Sportive
    KingstonGraham........74kg........8.06......Mar........Tri/Sportive
    Rich-Ti........................88kg........8:16......Feb........Sportive
    Batch78.....................92kg ish..8:16.......Mar.......Fun!
    thebongolian............75kg........8:17.......Mar......Sportive / commuter
    The Emu......................86kg.......8.31......Feb........Sportive
    Myk-ee........................84kg.......8.42......Mar.........Sportive
    Jonathan V ................77kg.......8.57......Mar..........Sportive
    Steve-M.........................78kg........9.13......Mar.......Commute/Social
    London-Red................85kg........9.21......Feb.......Fitness

    EDIT: Mr. Vandelay is not going to like this :lol:

    and may i ask you Chris ,who gave you all the inspiration you needed for today,yes moi !! :wink: i will admit by the time i turned that first corner,you were well out of sight, :roll:

    next time i ascend it with you on a ride,can you order me a full fat coke please,as waiting behind the munster family ordering everything off the menu really pi$$ed me off !!!!

    made it home and fell asleep in the bath :wink: now i am ready for that mother of all dinners i tolfd you about earlier

    8th March 2010,Spain ,Here I come !!!!!!
  • urrrrrrrrrs
    urrrrrrrrrs Posts: 478
    i shant post my time as it was embarrasing to say the least !!!

    8th March 2010,Spain ,Here I come !!!!!!
  • Art Vandelay
    Art Vandelay Posts: 1,982
    Chapeau Chris 8) . I might be able to join you for some mid week action next week. My next hit of Box Hill is well over due :(
  • batch78
    batch78 Posts: 1,320
    urrrrrrrrrs its not about winners its about personal improvements, post your time nobody will be judgemental, (unless its over an hour!!!!).

    To others at top of table.

    How many ride in groups using each other as a tow?

    How many ride solo, all ride?

    I can see where time can be made but top 15 is still very unlikely. Respect to under 7.20s
  • chrisw28
    chrisw28 Posts: 187
    batch78 wrote:
    urrrrrrrrrs its not about winners its about personal improvements, post your time nobody will be judgemental, (unless its over an hour!!!!).

    To others at top of table.

    How many ride in groups using each other as a tow?

    How many ride solo, all ride?

    I can see where time can be made but top 15 is still very unlikely. Respect to under 7.20s

    Come on urrrrs....I started off doing >8minutes, then managed to get it down to 7 and a bit, then I almost wee wee'd my pants when I found I got into the 6's. It's nice to see how you improve :lol:

    I think sometimes when you hit box hill and you're riding in a group, you can't help but start off in a group. For some it may help but for me it sometimes puts me off.

    Last time I improved on my PB up box hill I got up it on my own (and I prefer it that way). I don't know why, I can feel myself wanting to kick my own ass when I ride on my own. Whereas when I ride with others, I just let them do the ass kicking for me :lol:
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    +1 for solo ride. It's basically a time trial, so no drafting allowed. :wink

    And, URRRS: get your time up there, matey. :twisted:
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • After climbing Lieth Hill and missing my bottom gear, what a crap time though!
    Might try to knock at least a minute off before the summer.

    Name..........................Weight....Time.....Month.....TOR
    mark_d.......................60kg........6.31......Mar.......Skinny rouleur
    MatHammond..............85kg........6.32......Apr........Leisure
    Red GT.......................78kg........6:34......Apr........Sportive
    Art Vandelay..............76kg........6.44......Feb........Sportive
    andyp.........................72kg........6:46......Mar........Sportive
    JibberJim...................77kg........6.51.......Mar........Goaless
    Red GT......................78kg........6:53......Mar........Sportive
    pinkbikini......................85kg.......7.02......Mar.........3rdCat/sportive
    Phips ..........................64kg.......7:06......14 Mar.........Sportive
    Genki...........................74kg.......7:07......Mar.........Cat3 and Sportive
    Chrisw28.....................82kg.......7.11......Mar........Bit of everything!
    RedGreenBaron..........70kg........7.25......Feb........Sportive
    Funkin ........................78kg........7.30......Mar.......Tri
    Fuji-Mackers . ............78kgs......7.30..... Feb.........Sportive
    Felgen.........................96kgs.....7.34......Mar.........Cat4 *ahem*/'leisure'
    Jashburnham..............75 jg.......7.40......Apr..........Sportive/Fitness
    Phips ..........................64kg.......7:49......Mar.........Sportive
    Homercles..................90kg........8.00......Mar........Sportive
    KingstonGraham........74kg........8.06......Mar........Tri/Sportive
    Rich-Ti........................88kg........8:16......Feb........Sportive
    Batch78.....................92kg ish..8:16.......Mar.......Fun!
    thebongolian............75kg........8:17.......Mar......Sportive / commuter
    The Emu......................86kg.......8.31......Feb........Sportive
    Myk-ee........................84kg.......8.42......Mar.........Sportive
    Jonathan V ................77kg.......8.57......Mar..........Sportive
    Steve-M.........................78kg........9.13......Mar.......Commute/Social
    London-Red................85kg........9.21......Feb.......Fitness
    M Cornick....................71kg........9.30......Apr.......Crap!
  • chrisw28
    chrisw28 Posts: 187
    Mick, I don't think you've copied the lastest table (sorry, but you have no idea how much pain there was to get a new time for me :lol: )

    Good effort though, no doubt that time will go down. Nice one 8)
  • voxegam
    voxegam Posts: 244
    Well, me, chrisw and petromyzan gave it a go today. First time for me and had trouble finding where the finish was so carried on well past it finally stopping at 6:57.....Me and chris had a discussion about what I should have got.....I reckon 6:43, purely to spite him....However, I won't post a time, now I know where the finish is I'll beast it up next time = ]
    Trek Madone 6.5 Pro
    Planet-X (now winter-bike)
  • urrrrrrrrrs
    urrrrrrrrrs Posts: 478
    hmm, alright alright !!!!!

    I am computer illiterate so if someone can do the honours

    Urrrrrrrs. N/A. 9.29 Apr Elite/F Knacker


    I did this time over a week ago when not under strain of a group ride and posted on Kingston Wheelers Website

    8th March 2010,Spain ,Here I come !!!!!!
  • chrisw28
    chrisw28 Posts: 187
    Name..........................Weight....Time.....Month.....TOR
    mark_d.......................60kg........6.31......Mar.......Skinny rouleur
    MatHammond..............85kg........6.32......Apr........Leisure
    Red GT.......................78kg........6:34......Apr........Sportive
    Art Vandelay..............76kg........6.44......Feb........Sportive
    Chrisw28.....................82kg.......6.44......Apr........Lazy student
    andyp.........................72kg........6:46......Mar........Sportive
    JibberJim...................77kg........6.51.......Mar........Goaless
    Red GT......................78kg........6:53......Mar........Sportive
    pinkbikini......................85kg.......7.02......Mar.........3rdCat/sportive
    Phips ..........................64kg.......7:06......14 Mar.........Sportive
    Genki...........................74kg.......7:07......Mar.........Cat3 and Sportive
    RedGreenBaron..........70kg........7.25......Feb........Sportive
    Funkin ........................78kg........7.30......Mar.......Tri
    Fuji-Mackers . ............78kgs......7.30..... Feb.........Sportive
    Felgen.........................96kgs.....7.34......Mar.........Cat4 *ahem*/'leisure'
    Jashburnham..............75 jg.......7.40......Apr..........Sportive/Fitness
    Phips ..........................64kg.......7:49......Mar.........Sportive
    Homercles..................90kg........8.00......Mar........Sportive
    KingstonGraham........74kg........8.06......Mar........Tri/Sportive
    Rich-Ti........................88kg........8:16......Feb........Sportive
    Batch78.....................92kg ish...8:16.......Mar.......Fun!
    thebongolian...............75kg.......8:17.......Mar......Sportive / commuter
    The Emu......................86kg.......8.31......Feb........Sportive
    Myk-ee........................84kg.......8.42......Mar.........Sportive
    Jonathan V ................77kg.......8.57......Mar..........Sportive
    Steve-M......................78kg........9.13......Mar.......Commute/Social
    London-Red................85kg........9.21......Feb.......Fitness
    Urrrrrrrs...................... N/A........ 9.29 .....Apr.......Elite/F Knacker
    M Cornick....................71kg........9.30......Apr.......Crap!

    voxegam wrote:
    Well, me, chrisw and petromyzan gave it a go today. First time for me and had trouble finding where the finish was so carried on well past it finally stopping at 6:57.....Me and chris had a discussion about what I should have got.....I reckon 6:43, purely to spite him....However, I won't post a time, now I know where the finish is I'll beast it up next time = ]

    You're nuts, you could easily destroy my time with a proper go. :lol:
  • urrrrrrrrrs
    urrrrrrrrrs Posts: 478
    cheers chris

    voxegam,good effort !

    so whos around wenesday morning for a ride than ??I mean just think the battle royale up Box Hill we could have. Chris,Voxegam and Art ?? Me,I will pop along a few mins later !!!

    8th March 2010,Spain ,Here I come !!!!!!
  • Red GT
    Red GT Posts: 40
    batch78 wrote:

    How many ride in groups using each other as a tow?

    How many ride solo, all ride?

    For what it’s worth I’ve normally got at least 50K under the belt by the time I get to Box Hill and it’s always a solo effort. It’s not just because I’ve got no friends :( but because I’d feel as though it wasn’t all ‘my’ time (bit like drafting on the Richmond Park 3).

    However I’d like to see what times could be done if you paired-up with someone near you on the leader-board, it’s got to be worth a few seconds...