The ultimate Lance doping thread
Comments
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dennisn wrote:Kléber wrote:rockmount: Try not to get personal. Tackle the argument, not the man.
Yes, try to remember "rockmount" only pro riders are allowed to be bashed on this forum.
Bashing one of the posters is not permitted because they have feelings and are
sensitive human beings. Whereas any doper, or someone they think is a doper, is obviously a vile blotch on society and can have anything said about them - no exceptions.
Dennis Noward
Oh I really wasn't bashing him / her ... I can't imagine how anyone could think that !! It was merely an observation... who said that, internet forum people ?0 -
Get off the grass Dennis your giving some dude crap about being fat because he chased armstrong with a needle trident in the Livestrong colours. You cant play both sides, you either accept people can make judgement calls on people from the infomation they have or you live in a fairy land where even one is just so super nice to everyone which one is it . Still amazingly little dicussion on Armstrong its like reverse psychology or something.Take care of the luxuries and the necessites will take care of themselves.0
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richard wants a baum wrote:Get off the grass Dennis your giving some dude crap about being fat because he chased armstrong with a needle trident in the Livestrong colours. You cant play both sides, you either accept people can make judgement calls on people from the infomation they have or you live in a fairy land where even one is just so super nice to everyone which one is it . Still amazingly little dicussion on Armstrong its like reverse psychology or something.
I keep telling you guys that I'm only doing this because you're doing it. Tit for tat. You can't expect to hammer on someone day in and day out without someone(me and a few others) calling you out about it. Giving you a little of the same treatment you give Lance and some others. Seems real fair to me.
Dennis Noward0 -
dennisnI keep telling you guys that I'm only doing this because you're doing it. Tit for tat. You can't expect to hammer on someone day in and day out without someone(me and a few others) calling you out about it. Giving you a little of the same treatment you give Lance and some others. Seems real fair to me.
Dennis Noward
And im doing the same to you seeing as giving people crap is as selective for you as it for everyone else. You seemed quite happy to make assumptions about a fat guy in a funny suit? Dennis i really dont care what you post and you can call me out on anything you like. The fact is your quite happy to get on everyones case for having an opinion but you seem to not realise when you do the same thing. As far as the same treatment as we give Lance i dont see how telling people that they shouldnt have an opinion is the same as looking at a person and having an opinion.Take care of the luxuries and the necessites will take care of themselves.0 -
I seem to have read on this thread or another that KK Speeder believes that many of the top 40 in the ToC are doping in someway. Is that form of doping dectectable, or is it a matter of catching said rider and bag "in the act" as it were? I guess it isn't CERA the breakfast choice of last years TdF Teutons
Lance secured a top 10 finish on pretty much his second race back after a couple of years off (and in view of what KK Speeder wrote would beone of the 40 dopers) Do we then think that the rest of the peleton has now caught up with Lance's alleged undetectable doping techniques?0 -
YellowPeril, I think KKSpeeder was getting too excited, he was taking incomplete data and extrapolating from them. In reality the figure on wattage from Larrson's FTP in the prologue never existed. Not to say he or she was wrong, just that the arguments were being built on assumptions which actually were false.0
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Is the general opinion that LA is still doping now or is he trying it clean? I was never really into the 'scene' when he was winner his 7 Tour de France titles. I knew who he was, read the books and was in admiration of the guy for 'beating cancer, training harder, driving himself harder than the next guy'. Now I've read a bit more about it and seen the 'hatred' that the majority of people seem to have for him and know how widespread the whole doping scene was. So, is he clean now? Is the sport clean or are they all just developing new undetectable drugs.0
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Dennis, you really are an odd one. You say you don't like doping comments and yet you spend hours every day on the fora. You remind me of a Victorian anti sleaze campaigner who in reality has a psyche chock full of fetish. We were happily discussing doping here long before you ever turned up. You are drawn like a moth to a flame. I find the entire science and physiology of doping fascinating. I also hate the way it has destroyed the credibility of racing. I enjoy these threads, hence I frequent them. Your continued bile is the equivalent of an internet football hooligan. I would happily say what I say here to the face of anyone. What gives you the arrogance to assume the defence of anyone?Dan0
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Rob3308 wrote:Is the general opinion that LA is still doping now or is he trying it clean? I was never really into the 'scene' when he was winner his 7 Tour de France titles. I knew who he was, read the books and was in admiration of the guy for 'beating cancer, training harder, driving himself harder than the next guy'. Now I've read a bit more about it and seen the 'hatred' that the majority of people seem to have for him and know how widespread the whole doping scene was. So, is he clean now? Is the sport clean or are they all just developing new undetectable drugs.
Everyone does seem to hate LA. Is it just that the haters are the more vocal brigade and everyone else just keeps out of it? A bit like the way angry minorities can skew things generally.
Yeah the guy can be aggressive and come across like a bit of an arse at times, but so what - he is (or was) one of the world's top athletes competing at the top of his game in an aggresive sport. I'm not in his fan club but I don't have a big problem with the guy. I don't see Chris Hoy saying "no please, after you" on the track.
If you go by the way he comes across in his books there's no way he would ever dope. He's always tested clean (I can see someone getting away with it for a season or two - lets even say 3 or 4 - but for as long as he has been racing...?) He competes in a sport with a drug problem. Move on. If for no other reason than I quite like the Livestrong colours and don't want to hated for wearing them one day
It doesn't get any easier, but I don't appear to be getting any faster.0 -
StrangelyBrown wrote:Rob3308 wrote:Is the general opinion that LA is still doping now or is he trying it clean? I was never really into the 'scene' when he was winner his 7 Tour de France titles. I knew who he was, read the books and was in admiration of the guy for 'beating cancer, training harder, driving himself harder than the next guy'. Now I've read a bit more about it and seen the 'hatred' that the majority of people seem to have for him and know how widespread the whole doping scene was. So, is he clean now? Is the sport clean or are they all just developing new undetectable drugs.
Everyone does seem to hate LA. Is it just that the haters are the more vocal brigade and everyone else just keeps out of it? A bit like the way angry minorities can skew things generally.
Yeah the guy can be aggressive and come across like a bit of an ars* at times, but so what - he is (or was) one of the world's top athletes competing at the top of his game in an aggresive sport. I'm not in his fan club but I don't have a big problem with the guy. I don't see Chris Hoy saying "no please, after you" on the track.
If you go by the way he comes across in his books there's no way he would ever dope. He's always tested clean (I can see someone getting away with it for a season or two - lets even say 3 or 4 - but for as long as he has been racing...?) He competes in a sport with a drug problem. Move on. If for no other reason than I quite like the Livestrong colours and don't want to hated for wearing them one day
Dude he hasnt got away without evidence of drug use though has he? EPO cortiscoids etc. he just hasnt been found guilty of those things. In fact he hasnt even been charged so in a sense he has got away with it I suppose.
Still with mates like carmichael Ferrari and Bruyneel he's always going to attract raised eyebrows wether he's a ped user or not. I read the LA confidential stuff recently and in it hes painted into a very dark corner not only in terms of his possible cheating but also his character but at the end i kind of started to like the guy a bit again for precisley those character traits.0 -
flattythehurdler wrote:Dennis, you really are an odd one.
Your continued bile is the equivalent....
Got to agree with you there. I am an odd one. No telling what I'll do or say.
As for my "continued bile" I would remind you and some of the other posters of
your and their "continued bile".
Dennis Noward0 -
dennisn wrote:flattythehurdler wrote:Dennis, you really are an odd one.
Your continued bile is the equivalent....
Maybe, but even so up to this date he's right and your wrong about Lance and doping ... 0 -
Seriously Dennis,
Why do you spend so much time on here whilst telling others to get a life? You post on little but the doping issues. They obviously interest you. Why protest so much? I don't post bile. I post what I believe to be true. I was unfortunately proven correct in my assumptions about Ricco, and I think many would agree that LA, whatever his benefit to "cancer awareness", is not necessarily a nice person. I don't like the way he treats people, simple as that. I never will meet him, but I haven't seen the icecaps melting, nor experienced the Iraq war. This does not preclude me having , nor stating an opinion. If something happened to change my opinion about LA I would happily publicly admit this. I would also be prepared to confront him on issues raised here (as long as he didn't find out where I live). LA , if you are out there, come round for tea. I would love a lengthy and frank discussion about all things cycling and performance optimizing. (Actually I would love a long and frank discussion with Dr Ferrari, who is a very very talented man, whether those talents are well applied or not).
I still can't quite understand why you spend so long on here if you dislike it so.Dan0 -
flattythehurdler wrote:) LA , if you are out there, come round for tea.
I would pay to see that.
Maybe a Lance Armstrong doping tea party is in order.
Invite DennisN, Rockmount, Moray Gub to chew the fat with Aurelio, Flatty et al.0 -
A single figure number out of close to 150,000 registered members, would I guess constitute a very small [sad] vocal minority.StrangelyBrown wrote:Everyone does seem to hate LA. Is it just that the haters are the more vocal brigade and everyone else just keeps out of it? A bit like the way angry minorities can skew things generally.
..you should get a load of me !! 8)Yeah the guy can be aggressive and come across like a bit of an ars* at times, but so what..
+1 Well said.If you go by the way he comes across in his books there's no way he would ever dope. He's always tested clean (I can see someone getting away with it for a season or two - lets even say 3 or 4 - but for as long as he has been racing...?) He competes in a sport with a drug problem. Move on..... who said that, internet forum people ?0 -
flattythehurdler wrote:Seriously Dennis,
Why do you spend so much time on here whilst telling others to get a life? You post on little but the doping issues. They obviously interest you. Why protest so much? I don't post bile. I post what I believe to be true. I was unfortunately proven correct in my assumptions about Ricco, and I think many would agree that LA, whatever his benefit to "cancer awareness", is not necessarily a nice person. I don't like the way he treats people, simple as that. I never will meet him, but I haven't seen the icecaps melting, nor experienced the Iraq war. This does not preclude me having , nor stating an opinion. If something happened to change my opinion about LA I would happily publicly admit this. I would also be prepared to confront him on issues raised here (as long as he didn't find out where I live). LA , if you are out there, come round for tea. I would love a lengthy and frank discussion about all things cycling and performance optimizing. (Actually I would love a long and frank discussion with Dr Ferrari, who is a very very talented man, whether those talents are well applied or not).
I still can't quite understand why you spend so long on here if you dislike it so.
Got a story to tell you - bear with me.
A few years back the company I work for wanted to be able to bid on state government jobs. In order to do this every one in the company is subject to drug testing. So we all get to sit down in a meeting room and listen to a state employee deliver a lecture and something of a slide show on the testing and the dangers of drug use. Very boring, but I digress. She proceeds to show us pictures of various people in various stages of decay
because of drug use. The last picture that she pops up on the screen was a very unfaltering picture of none other than Keith Richards, in a somewhat typical Rolling Stones pose. She then proceeds to tell us that this is a prime example of what drugs will do to you and talks about his statement of snorting his fathers ashes. Right about there
I asked her if she knew Keith personally. She said no but told me that everyone knows what he's like. I then told her that he is a friend of mine and has been for 20 some years.
We see each other when we can and my wife and myself have vacationed with him and his family at his Caribbean island home 5 or 6 times. I told her that in all this time I have never seen him do anything that you claim and asked why she would say these things.
You could have knocked her over with a feather. She stuttered a bit and the meeting was soon over. Right after she came up to me and tried to apoligize and then said one of the stupidest things I've ever heard "what's he really like". I told her that I thought she said she already knew all about him.
Now I don't really know Keith, it was all a big load of ....., but what I do know is that he is a member of the most successful rock band ever and you don't get there by not contributing and just being a drug addict along for the ride. I also know that Lance won 7 TDF's and you don't do that by simply being a druggie and going along for the ride either.
Dennis Noward0 -
dennisn wrote:flattythehurdler wrote:Seriously Dennis,
Why do you spend so much time on here whilst telling others to get a life? You post on little but the doping issues. They obviously interest you. Why protest so much? I don't post bile. I post what I believe to be true. I was unfortunately proven correct in my assumptions about Ricco, and I think many would agree that LA, whatever his benefit to "cancer awareness", is not necessarily a nice person. I don't like the way he treats people, simple as that. I never will meet him, but I haven't seen the icecaps melting, nor experienced the Iraq war. This does not preclude me having , nor stating an opinion. If something happened to change my opinion about LA I would happily publicly admit this. I would also be prepared to confront him on issues raised here (as long as he didn't find out where I live). LA , if you are out there, come round for tea. I would love a lengthy and frank discussion about all things cycling and performance optimizing. (Actually I would love a long and frank discussion with Dr Ferrari, who is a very very talented man, whether those talents are well applied or not).
I still can't quite understand why you spend so long on here if you dislike it so.
Got a story to tell you - bear with me.
A few years back the company I work for wanted to be able to bid on state government jobs. In order to do this every one in the company is subject to drug testing. So we all get to sit down in a meeting room and listen to a state employee deliver a lecture and something of a slide show on the testing and the dangers of drug use. Very boring, but I digress. She proceeds to show us pictures of various people in various stages of decay
because of drug use. The last picture that she pops up on the screen was a very unfaltering picture of none other than Keith Richards, in a somewhat typical Rolling Stones pose. She then proceeds to tell us that this is a prime example of what drugs will do to you and talks about his statement of snorting his fathers ashes. Right about there
I asked her if she knew Keith personally. She said no but told me that everyone knows what he's like. I then told her that he is a friend of mine and has been for 20 some years.
We see each other when we can and my wife and myself have vacationed with him and his family at his Caribbean island home 5 or 6 times. I told her that in all this time I have never seen him do anything that you claim and asked why she would say these things.
You could have knocked her over with a feather. She stuttered a bit and the meeting was soon over. Right after she came up to me and tried to apoligize and then said one of the stupidest things I've ever heard "what's he really like". I told her that I thought she said she already knew all about him.
Now I don't really know Keith, it was all a big load of ....., but what I do know is that he is a member of the most successful rock band ever and you don't get there by not contributing and just being a drug addict along for the ride. I also know that Lance won 7 TDF's and you don't do that by simply being a druggie and going along for the ride either.
Dennis Noward
Dennis I agree with you. Lance didnt get there simply by being a druggie, he appears to be a self centered thoroughly unpleasant chap as well.0 -
markwalker wrote:dennisn wrote:flattythehurdler wrote:Seriously Dennis,
Why do you spend so much time on here whilst telling others to get a life? You post on little but the doping issues. They obviously interest you. Why protest so much? I don't post bile. I post what I believe to be true. I was unfortunately proven correct in my assumptions about Ricco, and I think many would agree that LA, whatever his benefit to "cancer awareness", is not necessarily a nice person. I don't like the way he treats people, simple as that. I never will meet him, but I haven't seen the icecaps melting, nor experienced the Iraq war. This does not preclude me having , nor stating an opinion. If something happened to change my opinion about LA I would happily publicly admit this. I would also be prepared to confront him on issues raised here (as long as he didn't find out where I live). LA , if you are out there, come round for tea. I would love a lengthy and frank discussion about all things cycling and performance optimizing. (Actually I would love a long and frank discussion with Dr Ferrari, who is a very very talented man, whether those talents are well applied or not).
I still can't quite understand why you spend so long on here if you dislike it so.
Got a story to tell you - bear with me.
A few years back the company I work for wanted to be able to bid on state government jobs. In order to do this every one in the company is subject to drug testing. So we all get to sit down in a meeting room and listen to a state employee deliver a lecture and something of a slide show on the testing and the dangers of drug use. Very boring, but I digress. She proceeds to show us pictures of various people in various stages of decay
because of drug use. The last picture that she pops up on the screen was a very unfaltering picture of none other than Keith Richards, in a somewhat typical Rolling Stones pose. She then proceeds to tell us that this is a prime example of what drugs will do to you and talks about his statement of snorting his fathers ashes. Right about there
I asked her if she knew Keith personally. She said no but told me that everyone knows what he's like. I then told her that he is a friend of mine and has been for 20 some years.
We see each other when we can and my wife and myself have vacationed with him and his family at his Caribbean island home 5 or 6 times. I told her that in all this time I have never seen him do anything that you claim and asked why she would say these things.
You could have knocked her over with a feather. She stuttered a bit and the meeting was soon over. Right after she came up to me and tried to apoligize and then said one of the stupidest things I've ever heard "what's he really like". I told her that I thought she said she already knew all about him.
Now I don't really know Keith, it was all a big load of ....., but what I do know is that he is a member of the most successful rock band ever and you don't get there by not contributing and just being a drug addict along for the ride. I also know that Lance won 7 TDF's and you don't do that by simply being a druggie and going along for the ride either.
Dennis Noward
Dennis I agree with you. Lance didnt get there simply by being a druggie, he appears to be a self centered thoroughly unpleasant chap as well.
Could be. I don't know. Never had the opportunity
to sit down with him and drain a few beers.
That would proably tell me what he's like or at least
give me a good idea.
Dennis Noward0 -
What's your point Dennis? Is someone saying Armstrong became a champion just by doping? I must have missed that.
But there's a difference, being a heroin addict doesn't do much for your guitar playing but EPO abuse or blood doping can give you a double-digit percentage increase in your power output.0 -
Kléber wrote:
But there's a difference, being a heroin addict doesn't do much for your guitar playing but EPO abuse or blood doping can give you a double-digit percentage increase in your power output.
Recreational drugs do have an impact on music creation. Witness the wierd sonic excess of the 70's with lots of attention to detail fueled by coke. In the 90's when techno went very minimal and dark it was attributed in part to a rise in the use of smack by clubbers
I'm confused how Dennis knows Lance won 7 Tours without meeting him? That means he must've assimilated something in the media and decided it was true?Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:Kléber wrote:
But there's a difference, being a heroin addict doesn't do much for your guitar playing but EPO abuse or blood doping can give you a double-digit percentage increase in your power output.
Recreational drugs do have an impact on music creation. Witness the wierd sonic excess of the 70's with lots of attention to detail fueled by coke. In the 90's when techno went very minimal and dark it was attributed in part to a rise in the use of smack by clubbers
I'm confused how Dennis knows Lance won 7 Tours without meeting him? That means he must've assimilated something in the media and decided it was true?
Ha ha Dennis hes got you there!0 -
Dennis, rockmount, MG, etc. keep up the good work!
I'm utterly tired of this vicious LA bashing here, good to see some people can still have a rational attitude towards him and the sport we all love.0 -
Arkibal wrote:
I'm utterly tired of this vicious LA bashing here, good to see some people can still have a rational attitude towards him and the sport we all love.
Rational Thought.
Here's a good quote
It is believed by most philosophers (A.C Grayling) and experts, that a good rationale must be independent of emotions, personal feelings or any kind of instincts.
Isn't insisting on having a personal relationship destroying any chance of being rational?Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
StrangelyBrown wrote:If you go by the way he comes across in his books there's no way he would ever dope. He's always tested clean (I can see someone getting away with it for a season or two - lets even say 3 or 4 - but for as long as he has been racing...?)
I wouldn't put too much faith in the anti-dope controls of LA's time - how many controls would Ullrich have undergone without testing positive?
I'm not saying that this makes LA guilty, but the argument should be no positives = presumption of innocence rather than no positives = he's definitely clean.0 -
markwalker wrote:iainf72 wrote:Kléber wrote:
But there's a difference, being a heroin addict doesn't do much for your guitar playing but EPO abuse or blood doping can give you a double-digit percentage increase in your power output.
Recreational drugs do have an impact on music creation. Witness the wierd sonic excess of the 70's with lots of attention to detail fueled by coke. In the 90's when techno went very minimal and dark it was attributed in part to a rise in the use of smack by clubbers
I'm confused how Dennis knows Lance won 7 Tours without meeting him? That means he must've assimilated something in the media and decided it was true?
Ha ha Dennis hes got you there!
You're right. Defeat at last. And at the hands of the English. I'll probably get exiled from the USA. If not hung or worse.
Dennis Noward0
