6 Nations
Comments
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The Welsh success has also elevated them to 6th in the IRB world rankings, still one behind England, but now ahead of France.0
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Well done wales, totally deserved it
Cipriani did well a few loose kicks but other than that we looked like a team that can run the ball first time I've seen that in ages... promisingPurveyor of sonic doom
Very Hairy Roadie - FCN 4
Fixed Pista- FCN 5
Beared Bromptonite - FCN 140 -
Personally I don't think that many thinking armchair welsh supporters believe Hook to be the last word in a No10 jersey, now or ever..why? because he isn't the sharpest tool in the block. He is fairly introverted on the field in the style of Wilkinson, and is nothing like Cipriani in that respect. When he plays for the Ospreys, its Justin Marshall at SH that runs the show, not Hook. Gatland and co have been saying this all through the championship.
There's hope that the young Dan Biggar might be a more assertive player than Hook, and although I think he is only 17 at the moment, he could be ready just about in time for next RWC if he can develop as quickly as Cipriani. Since he has arguably been one of the U20 players of the tournament, and despite an obvious age and experience disadvantage, then he's started off well....0 -
Lets hope all these players keep their form and fitness for the Lions next year. Having Hook, Jones, Cipriani and Wilkinson in the squad as 10's isn't a bad lot to choose from (assuming Cipriani gets to show his quality in tougher games between now and then and Wilko finds his form again) and then there's Paterson and O'Gara in the picture too. Peel and Phillips are world class SH's and there's decent players in most positions I'd say. Williams on the wing of course! Woodward fked it up last time with a fairly decent bunch of players to choose from. Lets hope they get the coaches (and press officers :roll: ) and more importantly, the approach, right this time.0
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Who claims Hook will remain at No 10? I did not
I still think the press are building up Cipriani too early, he is talented but still raw and inexperienced.
Ashton is being led by the press, thats the only reason Wilko was axed, it is a dangerous path to tread !!
I still say he's not the brightest sprk, I have heard him in many interviews, but he is a talented athlete but he needs guidence same as Hook.
I would be more worried why they don't pick form players such as SimpsonDaniel and Matt Tait, and whats wrong with Josh Lewsey? I don't think Sackey is that good a winger to be honest, look at the try he gave away against Wales when he tried to blitz Hook and he just skipped past him, his defence is not the best and he mostly scores when put away, rarely beats his man one on one, compare that to Shane Williams and Jason Robinson.
As for the lions, Wilko and Ogara no 10? now your joking right? Ronan is past his best and will be well past by the lions tour, also Patterson and if Wilko does not improve he will be no where near being selected.
On current form Philips is best choice no9 in Wales but Peel will be back he is just lacking playing time.
The next Lions tour will not be as easy to pick squad as previously as some of the Irish and English top players (more forwards) will be very close to being past it by then, (eg shaw, borthwick, corry and several irish players)though there are a couple of good forwrads coming through in England, but may be a bit early for those.
Really it should be more based on form at the time of the tour, too ear;y to even look yet .0 -
Well we're going to have to now aren't we?
15 Lee Byrne
14 Paul Sackey (undecided with Mark Jones, just gets the edge)
13 Tom Shanklin
12 Gavin Henson
11 Shane Williams
10 Danny Cipriani (Again, lets watch him - Hook or Jones just as easily)
9 Dwayne Peel (but equally happy with Mike Phillips or Peter Stringer)
1 Andrew Sheridan
2 Ross Ford
3 Adam Jones
4 Ian Gough
5 Paul O'Connell (Capt) (Alun Wyn Jones may have stepped up by then..)
6 Aladair Strokosch
7 Martin Williams
8 Ryan Jones
Coaches:
Warren Gatland
Sean Edwards
Rob Howley
Lawrence Dalaglio0 -
hmm if they re available i'd have to put some of the irish centres in there (and if Noon is as solid as he has been he could be a good addition), but i can see the benefit of having two who have worked with each other before i admit!!!
Unfortunatly i missed everything last week cos i was skiing but doing the Vallee Blanche on a beautiful sunny dau with a metre of fresh snow makes it up and more tbh!!!We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Typical - all this talk about possible Lions stand offs and no-one mentions Dan Parks...
There's a future for you in the fire escape trade...0 -
mitchell_inman wrote:Typical - all this talk about possible Lions stand offs and no-one mentions Dan Parks...
6th choice for me after Ronan and Johnny, in that order. Patterson should at least make the squad, but on current form he's not a complete enough player to make the dream start sheet.0 -
robbarker wrote:Well we're going to have to now aren't we?
15 Lee Byrne
14 Paul Sackey (undecided with Mark Jones, just gets the edge)
13 Tom Shanklin
12 Gavin Henson
11 Shane Williams
10 Danny Cipriani (Again, lets watch him - Hook or Jones just as easily)
9 Dwayne Peel (but equally happy with Mike Phillips or Peter Stringer)
1 Andrew Sheridan
2 Ross Ford
3 Adam Jones
4 Ian Gough
5 Paul O'Connell (Capt) (Alun Wyn Jones may have stepped up by then..)
6 Aladair Strokosch
7 Martin Williams
8 Ryan Jones
Coaches:
Warren Gatland
Sean Edwards
Rob Howley
Lawrence Dalaglio
Well not sure how you come up with some of these
Buzz Dalaglio as a coach? he is not even qualified and has never coached!!
Paul Sackey on the wing? never, I would put Nicky Wlaker before him and probably Trimble, and Simpsondaniel is very much in form.
Cipriani no 10, that must be a wind up, he has one real cap and you would select hiom for lions? He would not last the tour !!
Dwayne Peel is no where fit enough yet, Stringer has the worst pass in international rugby ever, whats wrong with the scottish scrum halves Blair and Dawson?
Loose head? Gethin Jenkins is a far more all round player than Sheridan and hasthe benefit of being world class at tight and loose head, Sheridan is too one dimensional, can scrummage well on times but not very good in the loose.
Paul Oconnol is no where near the player he was, like Peel lacking fitness.
If Patterson was to be selected it would be as cover for fullback and wing as he can play both, but not good enough for no 10.
Dan PArks is just not good enough at international level for no10, how many tries has he ceated for Scotland this year?0 -
Its next to impossible to predict where players will be this time next year. This selection is based on how I think people could perform next year, not on current form. Cipriani may have faded, he may have developed into the man for the job.
Some of those are included because putting too many welsh players in might have been considered biased ;-)
Sheridan is a more powerful force in the scrum than Gethin, although Gethin's support play is better. Day job skills come first though, particularly where they will be going..
O'Driscoll is missing as the two welsh centres were head and shoulders above anyone elses this six nations. I'm sure he'll make the squad though. I've no doubt O'Connell will find his form again, and if Stringer plays like he did two seasons ago he can make the cut. Isaac Boss is another one to watch - if he ever realises his potential.
Sackey has awesome potential, he just needs a good coach and some talent around him.
Dalaglio as forwards coach? Yes, OK, a bit of mischief, but he might provide the leadership that will be needed and he's used to working with Warren and Sean. Personally I'd take the sword-wielder-in-chief himself, but proposing the entire welsh coaching setup is a bit cheeky.0 -
I imagine that off the back of being dropped, Wilko will raise his game again and come back stronger. He's a player who's 100% comitted and motivated so I don't expect him to fade into mediocrity. He didn't have a good 6 nations but I'm sure he'll be back to somewhere near his best sometime soon because he's a dedicated student of the game. If he does regain that form then I think we'd be doing pretty well to have him as a choice at number 10 for the midweek games on the Lions and he could even improve on that if the other choices pick up injuries or lose form. I think he'll always be there, or thereabouts until his body really does give up on him. I don't really rate Paterson but I feel a bit sorry for him the fact that he's been around so long but never toured with the Lions! If the Welsh boys and Cipriani stay on course then there's no room for O'Gara for sure.
We'll have to see how it goes. Its a long way off but I think we could put together a good squad for it this time around.0 -
I like Wilko and his attitude, a lot could learn from him, but unfortunately since winning the world cup and all his injuries, he has never reached his previous form and England have some promising younger players coming through so this makes it a bit harder for him now though he still ahs at leat 4 years left to do it in.
With respect to Stringer, I do not rate him at all, his service is slow and eratic, the only thing that makes him no9 is his size 0 -
I'd rate O'Gara ahead of Cipriani as a potential Lions No10...experience, tactical nous etc etc. In order of experience/form then you have to go with O'gara / Wilkinson / Jones as first choices. Hook / Cipriani are the outside bets (provincial games perhaps).
OK thats the No 10 debate started, lets let that run for a few pages, then we can move to the other backs.... 0 -
A guy I work with insisted that in future French and Italian players might be included in the Lions tour. Ridiculous now I think about it again but he swore blind it was true.0
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As a welshy abroad, It was inevitable I suppose but to counter the many "you only won it because the other teams were crap" let's compare it to previous events, specifically the "great" English team of 1999 to 2003 that eventually won the RWC. They only managed one GS during that poeriod; Ireland were arguably a stronger side, Scotland were certainly now worse than they are now, and Italy for sure were weaker, but then no way is the England side of 2008 as poor as some of the performances that we put in during that period. There is indeed a fine line between gratuitous gloating and celebrating a worthy victory...
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And let's not forget how close Wales pushed England in the RWC 2003 quarter final. Wales scored 3 tries to England's one, and it was a bit of indiscipline and the six resulting penalties that did for us. That match could have gone either way.0
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robbarker wrote:And let's not forget how close Wales pushed England in the RWC 2003 quarter final. Wales scored 3 tries to England's one, and it was a bit of indiscipline and the six resulting penalties that did for us. That match could have gone either way. yeh, but it didn't did it! Thats sport for you. No one remembers second place....and most people don't remember joint 4th either!
Wales deserved the victory this year for 2 main reasons I think. Looking out of it at half time against England at Twickenham in their opening match before coming back to win. And beating Ireland away at Croke Park. The other matches I would have said were always winnable on paper, as firstly, Wales should not be losing to teams like Italy and Scotland. Having France as the championship decider in Cardiff was looking mouthwatering but France didn't bring alot to the championship this year. What was impressive was how well they beat them in a cagey game. I think Wales were by far the form team this year so I wasn't surprised to see them do it. Once England were out the way and it became clear France weren't at the races then the slam was on. I think if England had beaten Wales at that first match they could well have gone on to the slam as surely there would have been more at stake come the Scotland game but alas they failed and thats the way it goes. You have to be consistently good and avoid complacency and thats why Wales deserved it.
Course, those slam opportunities that eluded England in the past probably served to make them a world cup winning team. They learnt not to get complacent, how to squeeze the pips out of a team even when they were playing badly and essentially, how to win when the chips are down. It took a number of years and going through highs and lows to get there. Maybe thats why the AB's flunked out of the WC last year. They'd rarely been on the end of a defeat and so they didn't have it within them to see a way out when there backs were too the wall. And hopefully, if the world cup was re-run next week, Wales would have it in themselves to beat Fiji.0 -
SteveR_100Milers wrote:I'd rate O'Gara ahead of Cipriani as a potential Lions No10...experience, tactical nous etc etc. In order of experience/form then you have to go with O'gara / Wilkinson / Jones as first choices. Hook / Cipriani are the outside bets (provincial games perhaps).
OK thats the No 10 debate started, lets let that run for a few pages, then we can move to the other backs....
Ogar wont be in the lions team, he is almost past hi sell by date now and certainly will be by the tour. Anyway, he is a horrible little shite and not popular with players so would not be a popular choice for team morale With ne Irland coach on the way he may not even be in Ireland team then.
On paper, Wilko should get the nod as long as he gets some form back, if not, Jones has most experience and been on a tour. Hook has done enough to show he is good enough to go, but although Cipriani has talent and should be ok by the time tour goes, has not done enough yet so too early to tell.
The standard has been so bad this year I am thinking of making a comback and putting myself forward for selection 8)0 -
oldwelshman wrote:With respect to Stringer, I do not rate him at all, his service is slow and eratic, the only thing that makes him no9 is his size
Agree there. Reddan's shown to be a much better scrum-half for them this year and should also be included for the Lions tour.
That Martin Johnson story today must mean Ashton's staying then?0 -
oldwelshman wrote:SteveR_100Milers wrote:I'd rate O'Gara ahead of Cipriani as a potential Lions No10...experience, tactical nous etc etc. In order of experience/form then you have to go with O'gara / Wilkinson / Jones as first choices. Hook / Cipriani are the outside bets (provincial games perhaps).
OK thats the No 10 debate started, lets let that run for a few pages, then we can move to the other backs....
Ogar wont be in the lions team, he is almost past hi sell by date now and certainly will be by the tour. Anyway, he is a horrible little shite and not popular with players so would not be a popular choice for team morale With ne Irland coach on the way he may not even be in Ireland team then.
On paper, Wilko should get the nod as long as he gets some form back, if not, Jones has most experience and been on a tour. Hook has done enough to show he is good enough to go, but although Cipriani has talent and should be ok by the time tour goes, has not done enough yet so too early to tell.
The standard has been so bad this year I am thinking of making a comback and putting myself forward for selection 8)
You sure???
Try Assist Kicks Drop
Wilkinson 0 2 16 2
Ogara 0 1 18 0
Jones 0 3 17 0
Ireland are half the team without him, he is possibly still the best team marshall of the home nations. Either way, I'd take him on the squad even of he is not No1 choice. And thats over Hook and Cipriani. For me Hook has been disappointing, yes hes talented player with his feet and passing but his tactical nous is way short of reliable let alone super star. I hope I'm wrong but I doubt he is the next Dan Carter, let alone Barry John. In any case, he is not yet ready for the big stage of a Lions Tour.0 -
oldwelshman wrote:SteveR_100Milers wrote:I'd rate O'Gara ahead of Cipriani as a potential Lions No10...experience, tactical nous etc etc. In order of experience/form then you have to go with O'gara / Wilkinson / Jones as first choices. Hook / Cipriani are the outside bets (provincial games perhaps).
OK thats the No 10 debate started, lets let that run for a few pages, then we can move to the other backs....
Ogar wont be in the lions team, he is almost past hi sell by date now and certainly will be by the tour. Anyway, he is a horrible little shite and not popular with players so would not be a popular choice for team morale With ne Irland coach on the way he may not even be in Ireland team then.
On paper, Wilko should get the nod as long as he gets some form back, if not, Jones has most experience and been on a tour. Hook has done enough to show he is good enough to go, but although Cipriani has talent and should be ok by the time tour goes, has not done enough yet so too early to tell.
The standard has been so bad this year I am thinking of making a comback and putting myself forward for selection 8)
He's (allegedly) more popular with the players wives.0 -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/7306620.stm
<ON>
I'm missing someting here surely...firstly Andrew insults Edwardes (and seems to have missed a short term trick i.e. next RWC) by only offering him a coaching role with the Saxons, and now this! What the hell is Johnno going to do if its not actually coaching the team, and if he is what the hell is Ashton doing? And why the hell is he staying if Johnno's coming??? Does it fool anyone (indeed if that's even what he is trying to do....I hope so otherwise it really is desperate). Glad to see Dean Richards at least asking the question that everyone else must be thinking!
Will Carling's eyes must be rolling inside his head..old farts? The mans only just turned 40 ffs and he seems to have lost it completely. If this isn't sorted soon, fortress Twickers is going to be maruaded mercilessly over the next 2-3 years. And to think just 8 or so years ago the RFU wanted to divorce themselves from the 6 nations and form a breakaway championship involving them and the southern hemisphere nations with their exclusive Sky deal on the basis that none of the other home nations would ever be able to offer serious competition.
I don't think you will find one single welshman who would forego the chance to play (and therefore beat ) England, no matter what cash was on offer
<welsh chuckling OFF>0 -
And sizzling Shane was at it again against Saracens yesterday. I bet they're really looking forward to the return match in the Heineken Cup in a fortnight!0
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Yes and I was there againrobbarker wrote:And sizzling Shane was at it again against Saracens yesterday. I bet they're really looking forward to the return match in the Heineken Cup in a fortnight!
Saracens were dissapointing, really slow to get the ball out and devoid of attacking ideas.
Their full back was pretty quick, good job they did not get the ball to him faster !!0 -
I hope they do sort out this mess soon enough. Why not give Ashton the chance to put in place who he wants and see how he gets on. Whats the point in only giving him half the steering wheel. Why do they keep going over his head. If he wants De Glanville, let him have him rather than trying to shoehorn Johnson in just because all the journos think he's the solution to every problem going. Just because he's big and scary and knows the game inside out doesn't mean he's the best man for the job.
Sorry, but O'Gara and Stringer won't be going to SA with the Lions. Cipriani will have enough internationals under his belt by then and watching him recently he'll be more than good enough by then. Wilko will go if he finds a bit of form, which I think he will, and Jones and Hook will go too. Hell, Andy Goode would go infront of O'Gara if yesterdays match was anything to go by. Peel, Phillips, Blair and Wigglesworth/Ellis would all go infront of Stringer.0 -
I see that Shaun Edwards has been teasing Martin Johnson bfore rejecting the England offer and signing with Wales until 2011.
Enjoy New Zealand flower boys and we'll see you next year.. :-)0 -
<damps down the fire of optimism>
remember that the sarries beat 4/5 of the welsh boys last weekend.
Blues against Too Lose was as bad.
Welsh rugby is still fragile, lets wait until the chocolate has solidified before we try making eggs out of it please!
By the way any Scarlets fans here tonight... woo hoo
that was some game, yet again i left the ground with my kids only to hear a monster roar half way down westgate street.... :roll:0
