6 Nations
Comments
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I think it's one of those things that sport does to people... In general, rugby fans are the best at accepting defeat, and also celebrating well when they win. But it's just the nature of some people to take it too far some times - and I don't mean football hooliganism standards either - doesn't happen in rugby circles, does it?!
Well done the Welsh, they played well, and managed to break a twenty year obstacle, let them have their moment, they deserve it.
I think the English can sometimes be very in your face when they've won, but will sometimes refuse to acknowledge a defeat graciously.(Guys I work with wouldn't talk to me for a few days after the RWC final.)
It's all early days yet, and no team has been playing outstanding rugby the whole way through, so let's see what happens. And enjoy the games!FCN 10 -
Oh and all the mpronic football fans I sse in England where I now live, wrecking pubs when england loose are all cutlurally integrated and friendly and not at all racist? Oh come on, you can always leave Wales if you don't like it that much?Heavymental wrote:When I first came to Wales I had never realised what hatred there was towards the English. After a few years at college/uni where I had arrived thinking Wales was a friendly and admirably patriotic country, I got fed up of watching people turn into complete w@nkers whenever England were playing rugby (against Wales or anyone else) and I soon changed my opinion of the friendly nature of the people. I still feel that today despite living here for over 8 years now. There's always that feeling that you're an outsider and unwelcome so I avoid watching sport in pubs. There's too much hatred in the world to get angry about people just because they're English...or any other nationality, especially when its over sport. Just get on with life. I know a good number of people who cheered on the Boks in the final. Why would you want to cheer on SA? Its hardly a gleaming example of utopia.
Anyway, to be fair, I live and work among plenty of people who have a more mature attitude but knowing there's always the handful of racists in the pubs gets my goat. I guess this is also true of Welsh folk living in England and Scots in London so at the end of the day I accept that there will always be small minded idiots wherever you go in the world!
I put up with all sorts of name calling but just laugh it off.0 -
There was nothing deliberatly wrong with that tackle, if he'd happened to have hit his shoulder not his head it would be called a normal tackle and everyone would have got on with it...these things happen, its rugby[/quote]
I dont agree with your comment about the tackle.
Johnny WIlkonson is one of the only english players I actually like, but you cannot defend that tackle.
At best you can claim he is not the type of guy to deliberatley injure a person, but this is not the usual case where a player gets flat footed and side stepped and sticks arm out.
In this case, Thomas ran straight at Wilkonson, probably part of game plan to tie him inot mauls to open space, Wilkonson stood firm and brough his arm back and did a swinging arms tackle, this is intentional and not accidental. Rugby players know how to tackle and the normal way to tackle in that situation is to tackle with the shoulder and to the side of the opponent. Thius was more of a rugby league type tackle.
In fact Johnny was very lucky he caught the side of Thomas's head becuase if he hit his head straight on, he would have snapped his froearm in half for definate, look what happened to Eamon Darcy and he only hit the ball!!!
It is not the usual thing you would expect from him but we do not know what went on before this tackle, dont forget this is one of the battles, backrow versus flyhalf and Johnny is known for his hard tackling but this was not one of his best efforts.
I have not heard if he was cited yet but suspect he would get away with 2 game ban, imagine if it was Grewcock? He would get 6 week ban 0 -
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well after several looks again, although none of them decent - you tube only, i still don't agree it was in any way deliberate, he was trying to...forecfully i admit...wrap his arm round him as he has too, he has his head down for at least a second before contact and he drives in hard and low, what else is a back supposed to do against a charging lock?!
another point of interest, although a much more subjective one, is that Hook and D jones dont even flinch or react at all negativly, they just gets involved with the ruck, considering all the the niggles and scraps throughout the game i would be surprised if it shocked either of them...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
oldwelshman wrote:
Oh and all the mpronic football fans I sse in England where I now live, wrecking pubs when england loose are all cutlurally integrated and friendly and not at all racist? Oh come on, you can always leave Wales if you don't like it that much?Heavymental wrote:When I first came to Wales I had never realised what hatred there was towards the English. After a few years at college/uni where I had arrived thinking Wales was a friendly and admirably patriotic country, I got fed up of watching people turn into complete w@nkers whenever England were playing rugby (against Wales or anyone else) and I soon changed my opinion of the friendly nature of the people. I still feel that today despite living here for over 8 years now. There's always that feeling that you're an outsider and unwelcome so I avoid watching sport in pubs. There's too much hatred in the world to get angry about people just because they're English...or any other nationality, especially when its over sport. Just get on with life. I know a good number of people who cheered on the Boks in the final. Why would you want to cheer on SA? Its hardly a gleaming example of utopia.
Anyway, to be fair, I live and work among plenty of people who have a more mature attitude but knowing there's always the handful of racists in the pubs gets my goat. I guess this is also true of Welsh folk living in England and Scots in London so at the end of the day I accept that there will always be small minded idiots wherever you go in the world!
I put up with all sorts of name calling but just laugh it off.
Hence my closing sentence. There's idiots everywhere unfortunately, and England has more than its fair share, its just depressing to be reminded of it so often!
Anyway, lets get back to the rugby. I don't think Johnny should have been cited and it looks like those in power don't think so either. I think its an independent panel that decides isn't it?
Does anyone care to guess if Eddie O'Sullivan will still be in charge at the end of this 6N?0 -
ddraver wrote:well after several looks again, although none of them decent - you tube only, i still don't agree it was in any way deliberate, he was trying to...forecfully i admit...wrap his arm round him as he has too, he has his head down for at least a second before contact and he drives in hard and low, what else is a back supposed to do against a charging lock?!
The easiest way for a back to tackle a charging lock ( I ws only 5'10" and 11st when I played fly half and winger) is to tackle placing shoulder into their thigh and place your head to the side so it does not get knocked off and wrap arms around legs, then allow his weight to come to you and they come down, you are partly using their size to bring them down. There is no point in hitting a forward that size and try to push them back, it won't happen
The only other way if it is a very tall guy (high centre of gravity) is to hit him midriff with your legs bent, head to side, arms round waist, then drive your legs up, which then will lift them off floor.
Sorry to be a pain, but JW did not go in hard and low, and it does not matter who he is or how many times you look at the film, his arm came from low and was straight and all players know it is a swinging arm tackle and it is not done by accident!!
I am not saying he deliberately set out to injure Thomas but the tackle is an illegal tackle full stop.0 -
So we have
Ireland - played well for 15 minutes. lost loads of lineouts and playing for Eddies Job not as a team. Dont look balanced in the backs. Spilled alot of passes. Apparently Eddie told them to play rugby "on the edge".. should go back to more basic rugby although the offload from Trimble to Dempsey was the highlight of the game. That said felt the referee was more one-eyed that one-eyed Eddie. Lots of ball killing on both sides
Italy - If they had a kicker would have run ireland even closer or possibly won.
England - cut Wales to shreds and if Strettle wasn't so blinkered would have had at least a try from that cut through the middle. Welsh scrum creaked. Injury forced them to employ a second row at no.8. Made some errors.. just happened to make them all in succession allowing Wales to gain 50/60M advantage
Wales - Should have been 40 points down at half time. Even first 10 mins of second half were looking dodgy enough. When English forwards were out of the way through tiredness/men playing out of position gained enough space to allow their backs to cut loose a bit.. Still got a long way to go as problems with scrum and lineout and you can only score from possession, and not every team will cough it up like England did in 2H.
Scotland. Naive rugby at its finest. Similar to Ireland attempting to play the offload game.. how many times did they spill the ball in France's 22 or just outside it and had to turn round 50-60M? Were asleep for many of the quick tap and gos.
France.. made to look good by some bad Scottish play. Scrum creaked in first half. Fairly high penalty count around the breakdown. Forward pass for first try and inept scottish defending for second and third.
So its all to play for next weekend. No team has actually played any real quality rugby for more than 20 minutes.. OK maybe the French dont need to do that to score, but I actually fancy Ireland against them in Paris.. especially if they decide to try 15 man rugby in their 22. I dont believe they will.
Will Eddie keep his job. YES. because we'll win sufficient number of games. It wont be pretty though. IRFU will appoint a backs coach to work with EOS.. thereby taking easy optionl rather than being brave and cutting Eddie loose.. although this ploy could also work to IRFU adv if Eddie refuses to work with new man, meaning IRFU have less to payout on his 4 yr contract.
Need to find a hooker who can hit his man in the lineout if we're to beat France. Our scrum looks OK. Think we need a proper winger/finisher.. Get Bowe in.0 -
anyone reading the last few pages of this thread would think theres only two teams in the 6 nations, maybe it should be retitled.0
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I dunno about that. I think that this whole UK inter rivalry thing is ridiculous and I hope that the increased hype around rugby doesn't mean the 6 Nations goes the same way as the home internation football tournament.
My favourite rugby team remains the British and Irish Lions.0 -
jimmythecuckoo wrote:I hope that the increased hype around rugby doesn't mean the 6 Nations goes the same way as the home internation football tournament.
I doubt it will. There's only about 10 countries in the world that are worth playing financially (it's a money making business in the end).
SA
NZ,
Aus
France
England
Wales
Scotland
Ireland
Italy
(Argentina are better than many of the above countries, but financially they are less sought after opponents - hopefully not for much longer though.)
Because of this, these countries tend to play each other nearly every year (e.g. Wales played every one of them 06/07 season bar SA). Take the Six Nations away and most of the Unions' games and income generation has gone.
Obviously this doesn't happen in football, where there are better income generating opponents than the home nations for the likes of England.0 -
Blimey, Jonathen Thomas is fit so no room for Alix Popham which is a shame. and woo hoo Blues Jamie Roberts replaces Mark Jones and not a moment too soon (thats jinxed him). Been playing well for the Blues and he's a huge lump.0
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SteveR_100Milers wrote:Blimey, Jonathen Thomas is fit so no room for Alix Popham which is a shame. and woo hoo Blues Jamie Roberts replaces Mark Jones and not a moment too soon (thats jinxed him). Been playing well for the Blues and he's a huge lump.
He's a great player, but that is an absolutely ludicrous decision. The bloke was out cold for at least a minute and they're saying he wasn't concussed?! IIRC the same thing happened with Serge Betsen in the world cup. Ridiculous.0 -
After the result last weekend, it wouldnt surprise me if JT gets a brace of tries and the MoM award...... :shock:0
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sorry JT?!........
I think the reason Mr O Sullivan may still be in charge is that Ireland are not yet prepared to take on a foreign coach, and theres no one else around, who wants the job or could do it better
plus they so often seem to be desperatly unlucky.They ll play a game ( such as italy last year, Wales when they won the grand slam (200?) and i can't remember in between) where everything will go the opposistions way, every floaty pass will drop perfectly into their hands whereas ireland will be unable to link anything together
I really hope they win this year (if not england obviously), everyone in that team deserves it and it would mean the world to the irish....
but they won't...something will go wrong (its Scotlands turn to benefit this year isnt it)We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
JT = Jonathen Thomas.
This is the most edifying analysis yet of England's performance that I have read in the aftermath:
http://www.scrum.com/39_50865.php
For the technical reason for the loss was that England stopped making forward progress at thre set pieces and breakdowns. Once the forward domination went, England have little to offer from their backs, cue the above analysis. The most interesting analysis of Wales' performance has come from the reports of Gatlands displeasure with some of Hook's playing: his kicking and his lack of overall exertion of authority, and he was the MoM. What a refreshing change from the hot air of Jenkins.0 -
Just watching the 2005 DVD (
) and forget the Matthew Tait tackle, the monster controlled upending of Josh Lewsey was awesome. Lewsey is one of my fave all time FB's which makes it all the sweeter. It was a great game to watch much better than Saturday but hey ho...
It's big Gav's year one hopes, and not before time. Get yer scalf and singing voice charlotte you're gonna need it.0 -
SteveR_100Milers wrote:Lewsey is one of my fave all time FB's which makes it all the sweeter.
Suprisingly Lewsey is Welsh really, I believe his parents are from the Valleys.0 -
Mine aren't but I'm Welsh. And my name isn't Shane or Brent either.. 0
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Carter himself has been quoted this week saying the Ospreys fly-half "can definitely be as good as me".
Gwlad to see he's in the same universe as our boys... 0 -
Please get a sense of proportion.
The Welsh rugby team are not world champions. They were outplayed for two thirds of a match against those English Bxxxxds and were GIFTED two late tries.0 -
Cougar wrote:Please get a sense of proportion.
The Welsh rugby team are not world champions. They were outplayed for two thirds of a match against those English Bxxxxds and were GIFTED two late tries.
Oh I think we have, ever heard of irony?? 0 -
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I love the way the Welsh can only ever see the silver lining......thats why you don't win world cups mate
its a shame, with a bit of realism for all concerned Wales could be challanging in major tournaments (well, THE major tournament)
the England Football team are affected by a similar mentalityWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
He's bitten...
Seriously though, how can a bit of supporter realism result in the team performing better in a competition..?? Don't follow that sorry. And if you want to see a kingdom of the blind when it comes to rugby, then you haven't met any kiwis...I'm comparing the fans not the players here before there is any more misplaced vitriol!
Good game in the U20's at the moment, Dan Biggar and Jonathen Davies look very promising. Have to say the English U20's looked very impressive last week.0 -
But it's OK because they've been rehearsing their end-of-game faces:
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