Rasmussen out
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prove this, and admittadly its a big if.. how will the "winnner " of the race fel knowing Rasmussen WAS the strongest rider in the race ... and for this to be taken on the word of Cassani .. well the italians have,nt exactly a spoltless record have they ( coni dont even belive pettachi ! ) .... lets get the proof either way an put this s to rest, but i cant help feeling the pressure has gotten to rabobank0
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The user and all related content has been deleted.0
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steveaguy130169 wrote:lets get one thing str8 here over excitable americans - leipheimer NEVER HAS AND NEVER WILL be a stage winner, he,s a wheelsucker par excellence just like Evans the probable winner now ( a couple of half hearted ineffectual attacks that amounted to nothing dont count ! )
With Contador not exactly being 100 % clean m( in repuatation only may I add ) - he was part of liberty segerous remember - will we actually have a worty winner at all ?
Sastre never a grand tour winner, but a fine rider is the only one of the top few ( contador aside ) with any fire in his belly - and not much either !..
And as for all these dicovery "fans " now shouting morals - your joking the only team to break the basso signing code so dont quote morals on here , if you ask most europeans discovery shouldnt even be here !
Well said.Dan0 -
The worst thing about Rasmussens exit is that the whining Cadel Evans could win.
At least Contador seems to have a personality.0 -
flattythehurdler wrote:steveaguy130169 wrote:lets get one thing str8 here over excitable americans - leipheimer NEVER HAS AND NEVER WILL be a stage winner, he,s a wheelsucker par excellence just like Evans the probable winner now ( a couple of half hearted ineffectual attacks that amounted to nothing dont count ! )
With Contador not exactly being 100 % clean m( in repuatation only may I add ) - he was part of liberty segerous remember - will we actually have a worty winner at all ?
Sastre never a grand tour winner, but a fine rider is the only one of the top few ( contador aside ) with any fire in his belly - and not much either !..
And as for all these dicovery "fans " now shouting morals - your joking the only team to break the basso signing code so dont quote morals on here , if you ask most europeans discovery shouldnt even be here !
Well said.
Well they would be when the riders ahead of you are full of synthetic chemicals. I'm no "fan" of Evans, I didnt and still dont "care" who wins providing a) they are clean and b) they ride themselves into the red zone again and again. Evans rode like an animal in the Pyrenees, he was right on the limit, most likely at his natural limit. Fore that he deserves some recognition.0 -
IanTrcp wrote:bigdawg wrote:... If ras' passport puts him in Mexico on those dates...
Do Mexico stamp passports on entry and/or exit? A quick check of mine (I was there in December) suggests not.
My last 3 visits are all recorded on my European (UK) passport. Last visit 2006.The secret of success is honesty and fair dealing. Fake that and you\'ve got it made. - Marx (Groucho)0 -
I wonder how much cassani was paid by rob a bank and proud hom ?
I could swear he wears glases now, yet he had none on on ITV4 highlights tonight.....there is going to be one hell of a book to read at sometime. After erading todays news and interviews, either ras is a good actor, or he may actually be innocent. I hope not, but there is something very unpleasant about seeing a man destroyed like this. In a sport where the science of testing is going to be become increasingly critical, then there has to be some logical reason for his expulsion from cycling so quickly and so terminably, over and above simply lying to his team manager. 0 -
If Rasmussen is as innocent as some people are implying on this thread, then he can seek redress by sueing Rabobank for loss of earnings and loss of reputation. This would add up to a tidy sum. Of course, he would have to convince a Court that he was where he said he was at any given time, and convince them that he had reasonable explanations for missing all four out of competition tests.
Rabobank's Corporate Legal eagles will have pondered this before giving the go-ahead for his sacking.
My guess would be that his chances lie somewhere between vanishingly slim and zero.Put a hump in your back
Shake your sacroiliac
And ride on0 -
Two sheds wrote:he can seek redress by sueing Rabobank for loss of earnings and loss of reputation. This would add up to a tidy sum.
Rabobank could sue him for causing damage to their reputation.
As could any of the sponsors, in fact I think this is the way to go: rider contract contains a clause saying that the rider will refund all wages and price money received to the sponsor should the rider be tested positive, fail to make test appointments, etc.
That would focus their minds a bit. I'm surprised none of the sponsors has asked for their money back already.
I think some of the brighter riders are realising that if things don't clean up and pretty damn soon, then the money will walk away from the sport.0 -
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0
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iainf72 wrote:
...in June, but surprisingly can't confirm where he was on the days Cassani said he saw him in t'Dolomites!
hmmm,
I think he's a liar until he can provide definitive proof that he was where he says he was! Until he provides that proof I'm glad he's not in the race and I hope race organisers don't invite his new team who will inevitably offer him a contract (I'm thinking Oleg's team here)
Rule No.10 // It never gets easier, you just go faster0 -
Steve100miler. I was thinking this last night. You are absolutely right, but the fact that contador or another dodgy american might win is worse that chicken (non organic)Dan0
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a rather telling quote:
"However, the brother and mother in law did not know where Rasmussen had been staying exactly, on June 13th and 14th."
so basically they think he was in Mexico, but don't know for sure where he was0 -
the fact hes already put this in the hands of his attorney may mean he has the proof of where he was.
If robbabank now want us to believe he was in mexico, flew to italy to climb a couple of mountains, and then flew back to mexico for lunch, they could be in trouble.
The interview I saw with their ds - he didnt look too confident, did not confirm that ras told him he was in italy (ignored the question!?) and looked like someone whod just cocked up big time - From what Ive seen Im beginning to believe it was the tour management that got him pushed out....
oops...unburn him.... :? :shock:dont knock on death\'s door.....
Ring the bell and leg it...that really pi**es him off....0 -
My opinion is that Ras is a victim of some disgraceful management, who clearly had come under severe pressure from Patrice (ASO) and sponsors to remove Ras from the race.
It’s pretty clear the facts have been put aside and replaced by suspicion.
The facts as I have read, are that Ras missed a number of out of season dope tests and as such received a formal warning, warning him that any further missed tests would automatically lead to suspension (a ban). I’m unaware of a rule that prevents a cyclist entering a race when in receipt of a warning, yet the spoutings from Patrice were pretty clear that he did not want a cyclist that missed a test, any test, in his race. Of course this didn’t come out until after the race started but you would have thought ASO would have thought this through a long time ago, bearing in mind this was supposed to be the year that was hailed as dope free. ASO need to be clear who they will accept into their race and change the rule (if one exists) before the race starts, not midway through.
The tests being missed due to he incorrectly advising authorities of his whereabouts, not hours before, not days before, not weeks before, but months before. You surely can understand how this can happen, pro cyclists travel all over and their schedules often change, hence the rule was put in place that three missed tests were needed before a ban was imposed. Does this rule need changing too? So somebody tell me, who else in the le Tour07 has missed a dope test in the last 18 months? Chuck ‘em out too, hey?
But ultimately, he appears to have been thrown out because he lied, well if he did and it can be proven, fair cop. For his team management to believe a journalist seems pretty tenuous. Really, does anybody out there seriously believe anything a journalist says? As such, it all reeks to me; pressure from ASO, frenzied journalists, sponsors not wishing to be associated with dopers, all led to the inevitable.
Lets not forget, during the tour he’s provided many dope samples and all have been clear. Another point that seems to have been mislaid. and if I'm not mistaken he's also never been associated with any other doping scandal ~ not like the current yellow jersey, who's being hailed as the "new cycling".
I truly hope Ras can prove his innocence, i.e. that he was in Mexico on the days in question. And that is all he need do. Even if he doesn’t, that the events of this last week don’t spiral further out of control and lead his life into further despair. I can’t help thinking of Pantani, different circumstances, but I really, really do not want to see Rasmussen’s life succumb to the same desperate end.0 -
The facts are that Rabobank claim he admitted lying to them about his whereabouts and he was therefore sacked. It may well have been the sighting by Davide Cassani that alerted them but it was his own admission that led his expulsion from the race as it directly contravened team rules. I can't find a link to Rasmussens denial of this fact, perhaps someone could post one. And I'd be careful about invoking the memory of Marco Pantani. He was treated atrociously, by ASO in particular, but was not exactly a saint.'e pur si muove0
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Stephen Sorba wrote:The facts are that Rabobank claim he admitted lying to them about his whereabouts
Unfortunately thats not what the robbabank ds said last night in interview, according to him they are basing their decision solely on the word of the italian guy... :? , after trying to dodge the question.
trouble is with a story like this, within an hour theres about 5 different versions floating around. I even saw one version yesterday where he was in italy visiting a dodgy doctor whilst climbing mountains.. :?
Its in the hands of ras' attorney so if he has evidence im sure itll come out in court..
Either way this is not good for the tour, the sport or just riding a bike..dont knock on death\'s door.....
Ring the bell and leg it...that really pi**es him off....0 -
So, in next year's tour, Ras must be a GC contender and a shoe-in for KOM.
But who will he ride for :?: :?: :?:Rich0 -
well his plan before this all blew up was to go back to mtb for the olympics.
Maybe he'll become a resident of mongolia and win gold for them dont knock on death\'s door.....
Ring the bell and leg it...that really pi**es him off....0 -
Stephen Sorba wrote:And I'd be careful about invoking the memory of Marco Pantani. He was treated atrociously, by ASO in particular, but was not exactly a saint.
Stephen,
I don't understand why you are advising me to be careful about raising memory of Pantani. Explain please.
I mentioned him because I had been thinking of him and what happened then. I see an uncanny resemblance between Ras and Pantani, it's not just the bald head. Would you want to see a repeat of what happened? I don't.0 -
Johno68 wrote:Stephen Sorba wrote:And I'd be careful about invoking the memory of Marco Pantani. He was treated atrociously, by ASO in particular, but was not exactly a saint.
Stephen,
I don't understand why you are advising me to be careful about raising memory of Pantani. Explain please.
I mentioned him because I had been thinking of him and what happened then. I see an uncanny resemblance between Ras and Pantani, it's not just the bald head. Would you want to see a repeat of what happened? I don't.
Simply because Pantani was heavily implicated in the use of banned substances, and you could be seen to be implying the same about Rasmussen.'e pur si muove0 -
No................he said that Rasmussen had admitted to them that he'd lied about being in Mexico when in fact he was in Italy............this is also how CyclingNews reported it:bigdawg wrote:Unfortunately thats not what the robbabank ds said last night in interview, according to him they are basing their decision solely on the word of the italian guy... :? , after trying to dodge the question.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/to ... jul26news2
According to hln.be, former professional Davide Cassani, now a commentator for Italian TV station RAI, made a statement to Danish TV on Wednesday in which he claimed to have seen the Rabobank leader training in the Italian Dolomites on June 13 and 14. Rasmussen had previously declared that he was in Mexico from June 4 - 26. "When Rasmussen was confronted with this information he confirmed to [team manager] Theo de Rooy he was at that moment in Italy," said Rabobank press officer Jacob Bergsma. "That was the reason De Rooy decided to get him out of the Tour and the team"
If he's lying to his team about his whereabouts, it's almost certainly because he has something to hide. In the current climate, this is reason enough to suspect him of doping even though he hasn't actually failed a test.
When this story first broke, plenty of people were happy to write it off as a non-story, and yet as time goes on and more comes out, it looks increasingly likely that Rasmussen cannot be trusted. Perhaps the Danish Federation and UCI have more information, not yet released, that caused them to drop him from the Danish squad for an apparently fairly minor misdemeanour.0 -
bigdawg wrote:Stephen Sorba wrote:The facts are that Rabobank claim he admitted lying to them about his whereabouts
Unfortunately thats not what the robbabank ds said last night in interview, according to him they are basing their decision solely on the word of the italian guy... :? , after trying to dodge the question.
trouble is with a story like this, within an hour theres about 5 different versions floating around. I even saw one version yesterday where he was in italy visiting a dodgy doctor whilst climbing mountains.. :?
Its in the hands of ras' attorney so if he has evidence im sure itll come out in court..
Either way this is not good for the tour, the sport or just riding a bike..
I missed this interview and would like to see it in writing. I also would like to see Rasmussen categorically denying he lied to his team management but I can't find that information either.
PS Can't deny it's a story now!'e pur si muove0 -
Stephen Sorba wrote:Simply because Pantani was heavily implicated in the use of banned substances, and you could be seen to be implying the same about Rasmussen.
:oops: certainly not what I meant. I sincerely hope that Ras is clean and can prove he has been done wrong.
However, such is the way that these things progress, we'll be here next year still none the wiser.0 -
Rasmussen was an athlete targeted by UCI for out of competition controls. In June he gave his location as Italy - at home. They call there and he says he is in Mexcio and was an error not to inform them of this previous. His team, UCI accept this and mark it down as a missed test.
Roll on Wed - it is pointed out that he was in Italy not Mexico. It is now clear that Mexico was a ruse to prevent him getting tested. Testers would not be able to fly to Mexico at short notice so there would be no follow up. If he had declared mexico earlier the testers might have actually gone there. And if he said dolomites he would be busted completly. So he waited until they called to use MExico as a means to avoid a test. Now enter man in black. Last thing he wants is youtube / internet throwing up his whereabouts in Dolomites so he wears no Rabo gear. When confronted by the team he cannot prove he was in Mexico -no passport visa, no flights, no hotel nada. It now becomes clear that Rasmussen used the Mexico excuse for the sole purpose to avaid an out of competition test - this as we all know is tantemount to a positive dope test in UCI rules. Rabo have no option but to deal with the case as if a positive test and he is released.
We know that he missed 4 such tests - remember that missing a test is NOT an issue. if it is proven that you have avaided one it is an issue. {Greek sprinters etc}Rasmussen will have a case to answer in due course and the burden of proof will be that it was not an accident but deceit. Telling testers you are in Mexico and cannot be tested when you are infact in the Dolomites in plain gear is a very serious issue.
Also keep in mind that missing 3 in 18 months is a sanctionable offence -he had missed 4. So I fail to see how you can have an ounce of sympathy for Rasmussen.
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Michael Rasmussen could be the next Dr Who...time travelling cyclist.0
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off the back wrote:Rasmussen was an athlete targeted by UCI for out of competition controls. In June he gave his location as Italy - at home. They call there and he says he is in Mexcio and was an error not to inform them of this previous. His team, UCI accept this and mark it down as a missed test.
Roll on Wed - it is pointed out that he was in Italy not Mexico. It is now clear that Mexico was a ruse to prevent him getting tested. Testers would not be able to fly to Mexico at short notice so there would be no follow up. If he had declared mexico earlier the testers might have actually gone there. And if he said dolomites he would be busted completly. So he waited until they called to use MExico as a means to avoid a test. Now enter man in black. Last thing he wants is youtube / internet throwing up his whereabouts in Dolomites so he wears no Rabo gear. When confronted by the team he cannot prove he was in Mexico -no passport visa, no flights, no hotel nada. It now becomes clear that Rasmussen used the Mexico excuse for the sole purpose to avaid an out of competition test - this as we all know is tantemount to a positive dope test in UCI rules. Rabo have no option but to deal with the case as if a positive test and he is released.
We know that he missed 4 such tests - remember that missing a test is NOT an issue. if it is proven that you have avaided one it is an issue. {Greek sprinters etc}Rasmussen will have a case to answer in due course and the burden of proof will be that it was not an accident but deceit. Telling testers you are in Mexico and cannot be tested when you are infact in the Dolomites in plain gear is a very serious issue.
Also keep in mind that missing 3 in 18 months is a sanctionable offence -he had missed 4. So I fail to see how you can have an ounce of sympathy for Rasmussen.
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nice post - i'm convinced that this is as close to the truth as we'll get0
