Rasmussen out
Comments
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I thought I was replying to your accusation that some riders are crap and what I thought was an implication that this was their fault rather than because they are the victims of others cheating. However, I can see that perhaps I misread your theme and in fact we are agreeing with one another. Apologies if so.
I certainly don't trust Discovery, I can think of 7 reasons off hand.........0 -
steveaguy130169 wrote:Leipheimer is a product of overhyped americanisim in the cycling magazines pandering to american readership
What do you have against American cyclists and their fans? Just curious? Whats the agenda?0 -
skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:I thought I was replying to your accusation that some riders are crap and what I thought was an implication that this was their fault rather than because they are the victims of others cheating. However, I can see that perhaps I misread your theme and in fact we are agreeing with one another. Apologies if so.
I certainly don't trust Discovery, I can think of 7 reasons off hand.........
Yes what really ticks me off is all these snctimonious discovery fans coming on when they are without doubt the biggest hypocrits off them all , Liepheimer and Evans are in no way crap, but certainly in Lepi,s case vastly overatted in my opinion.. i,m fed up of magazines thrusting one American after another down our throat (* hincapie, lepi, daneilson, ) when in reality they,re not even close to tour winners. Even this year without expulsions Leiphiemer would be only a place or 2 ahead of Zubeldia..... and how much publicity is he getting from the mags ? .. make that zero !0 -
Moose11 wrote:steveaguy130169 wrote:Leipheimer is a product of overhyped americanisim in the cycling magazines pandering to american readership
What do you have against American cyclists and their fans? Just curious? Whats the agenda?
no agenda , just fed up of the over hype of average riders to be honest.... and their attitude to cheating when there number 1 team appears to be a breeding ground for it !
Lets just put reality on this please .. A SCHleck is only 21 .. and the future .lepi never was nor hincapie0 -
steveaguy130169 wrote:Moose11 wrote:steveaguy130169 wrote:Leipheimer is a product of overhyped americanisim in the cycling magazines pandering to american readership
What do you have against American cyclists and their fans? Just curious? Whats the agenda?
no agenda , just fed up of the over hype of average riders to be honest.... and their attitude to cheating when there number 1 team appears to be a breeding ground for it !
Lets just put reality on this please .. A SCHleck is only 21 .. and the future .lepi never was nor hincapie
For god sake man, Levi is a classy rider. He's not the future, no. He's oldish. But he's finished 2nd in the Vuelta and won some good week long races and had top 10'd in the Tour.
It's like the Brit press hyping Wiggins, all down to marketing.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:steveaguy130169 wrote:Moose11 wrote:steveaguy130169 wrote:Leipheimer is a product of overhyped americanisim in the cycling magazines pandering to american readership
What do you have against American cyclists and their fans? Just curious? Whats the agenda?
no agenda , just fed up of the over hype of average riders to be honest.... and their attitude to cheating when there number 1 team appears to be a breeding ground for it !
Lets just put reality on this please .. A SCHleck is only 21 .. and the future .lepi never was nor hincapie
For god sake man, Levi is a classy rider. He's not the future, no. He's oldish. But he's finished 2nd in the Vuelta and won some good week long races and had top 10'd in the Tour.
It's like the Brit press hyping Wiggins, all down to marketing.
yes but anyone with any real knowledge appreciates Wiggins abilities and acceppts his limitations.. and even over here he,s not on the cover of cycling magazines everymonth !!
How many time does Bici Sport over hype Wiggins ........ exactly !0 -
They have every right to hype up Levi, he's proven he can be there or there abouts when it comes to winning a tour, I mean he's in the top 5 right now!!!
Theres no harm them giving him tons of publicity, the magazines are sold in their own country for their own fans and if it gets more people tuning in whats the problem.
I'm a big fan of American cycling and when this new american team Slipstream come in, they'll be getting my support.0 -
We seem to have the same theme going on here from our peculiarly pro Discovery/Aussie bretheren as on other threads (lets call them Ligettites) - anyone going faster than a Disco rider MUST be doping. Bizarre logic, absolutement!
Contador will lose GC on Saturday to Leipheimer or Evans and I won't even be watching cos it'll be dull as ditchwater. The two most overhyped underacheiving riders in the peloton.
Palmares ('highlights' only i.e. real races Commonwealth games doesn't cound Cadel!)
Evans
2004 Tour of Austria
2005 Tour of Romandie
Leipheimer
2005 Tour of Germany
2006 Dauphine Libere
That's it, from 2 guys the wrong side of 30, that's all they've acheived. And anyways, who says they're not doping, Moreni tested positive for testosterone after finished 102nd !?! Thats shows doping does not a Superman make. Perhaps Evans and Leipheimer need doping to be able to wheelsuck those with the turboboost turned up to 100%, seems plausible.
I feel sorry for Contador, having the jersey presented to him in this way only to have it taken away in the final tt by two non champions.
Perhaps we should award this year's to to the bravest most combative rider by vote, a kind of peoples champion - it should be Soler who has been very admirable. or Gerd
p.s. Ever noticed how the Ligettites can't see beyond an English speaking rider, they don't even seem to support Contador. Perhaps they don't like Jonny foreigner.0 -
Earthbound... Whos to say they have underachieved with results because they have been riding clean against a bunch of guys doped up. Maybe the reason Evans cannot attack every day and does look like he's busting his ass out there while Rasmussen sails up the hill he because he is indeed doing it clean.
Didn't we all say once that we'd rather see a clean nobody win the tour than a drugged up superstar?0 -
Earthbound wrote:We seem to have the same theme going on here from our peculiarly pro Discovery/Aussie bretheren as on other threads (lets call them Ligettites) - anyone going faster than a Disco rider MUST be doping. Bizarre logic, absolutement!
Contador will lose GC on Saturday to Leipheimer or Evans and I won't even be watching cos it'll be dull as ditchwater. The two most overhyped underacheiving riders in the peloton.
Palmares ('highlights' only i.e. real races Commonwealth games doesn't cound Cadel!)
Evans
2004 Tour of Austria
2005 Tour of Romandie
Leipheimer
2005 Tour of Germany
2006 Dauphine Libere
That's it, from 2 guys the wrong side of 30, that's all they've acheived. And anyways, who says they're not doping, Moreni tested positive for testosterone after finished 102nd !?! Thats shows doping does not a Superman make. Perhaps Evans and Leipheimer need doping to be able to wheelsuck those with the turboboost turned up to 100%, seems plausible.
I feel sorry for Contador, having the jersey presented to him in this way only to have it taken away in the final tt by two non champions.
Perhaps we should award this year's to to the bravest most combative rider by vote, a kind of peoples champion - it should be Soler who has been very admirable. or Gerd
p.s. Ever noticed how the Ligettites can't see beyond an English speaking rider, they don't even seem to support Contador. Perhaps they don't like Jonny foreigner.
ha ha cheers for the support mate ! .. to be honest i would,nt watch either of them if they were racing outside my house0 -
I'm sure they would be so disapointed. Would you rather Rasmussen had stayed in and won it then?
I mean who do you want to win the race?0 -
earthbound you appear to have missed Evans entire mtb career - he was a late starter on the road side of things.
Whats with all this guilty by association crap...??
Anyone in Doscivery must be doped, anyone over 30 must be doped, anyone who sat next to a festina rider in a restaurant ten years ago must be doped...why are you even watching the racing??? :?dont knock on death\'s door.....
Ring the bell and leg it...that really pi**es him off....0 -
steveaguy130169 wrote:skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:steveaguy130169 what are you on about? I would have agreed with you a week ago, but not now. No way. It is proven that the reason they can't attack or make them stick is because they are not benefiting from 'training plans' from certain 'doctors'. This is no longer a matter of conjecture it is a matter of increasing fact.
so you belive discovery are whiter than white ??? mmm
why are most people forgetting ALL pro tour teams agreed not to sign Basso then WHO broke that pact ... definatly not to be trusted
remind me again .. were did Hamilton and Landis Hail from ?????????????????
Did armstrong not use Ferrari ?
Buynell - former once rider ?
How short memories are around here !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Would any of the Ligettite Discovery fans like to also point their holier than though anti doping fingers at Roberto Heras?
In recent times there has been one rider above all others who turned a career of non tour contendership into a string of 'unbelievable' victories whilst spending the rest of the season out of sight, wearing black, training in remote locations far away from the European stadium of the sport of cycling. And he rode for.....
But that would be blasphemous to the Ligettites.
p.s. I feel confident in proposing that Indurain was clean, he was just a big strong bugger.0 -
As soon as this kind of argument falls into a simple slanging match between supporters of rival teams, any objectivity goes out of the window.
I'm no lover of Discovery (certainly not after the team signed up Basso), but as things currently stand, neither Contador, Leipheimer or any of the team have tested positive or missed any out of competition tests (as far as I am aware).
I think we should applaud the Rabobank team for dumping Rasmussen and wholeheartedly support Prudhomme in his efforts to protect the race and the sport in general. I saw his speech during a press conference and was really impressed by his determination to beat the dopers.0 -
Moose11 wrote:I'm sure they would be so disapointed. Would you rather Rasmussen had stayed in and won it then?
I mean who do you want to win the race?
well until he WAS proven guilty ( and lets be honest he,s certainly been tested enuogh recently ) i certainly would have prefferred Rasmussen to win, an attacking rider who you would certainly go and watch ... if he,s definatly a cheat then kick him out by all means... but i.. were will it end ?
Certainly ASO dont want 2 TDF,S without a clear winner for sure but at this stage thrown out over missing tests i think its harsh to be honest.0 -
steveaguy130169 wrote:Moose11 wrote:I'm sure they would be so disapointed. Would you rather Rasmussen had stayed in and won it then?
I mean who do you want to win the race?
well until he WAS proven guilty ( and lets be honest he,s certainly been tested enuogh recently ) i certainly would have prefferred Rasmussen to win, an attacking rider who you would certainly go and watch ... if he,s definatly a cheat then kick him out by all means... but i.. were will it end ?
Certainly ASO dont want 2 TDF,S without a clear winner for sure but at this stage thrown out over missing tests i think its harsh to be honest.
Ok I accped your anti-american cycling rants in two seperate topics as you just being upset about whats happening to your sport but this is just insanity.
So he misses 4 tests in all.. thats FOUR! One you could say ok, stupid mistake, two you might even say he's been an idiot, but FOUR! What do you expect his team to do?
Before starting my job I had to take a drugs test - I didn't miss it. Had I missed four of them I probably would have been fired too.
He shouldn't even have been entered into the race in the first place and kicking him out was the least they could do. Anyway, so you rant about Americans being hypocrits and on the drugs yet when all suspsion points to Rasmussen over his missed tests and lies you think thats ok? So you'd rather see someone like that win than a potentially clean (with no scandle surrounding him) Evans who has worked his tail off in them mountain stages?
A lot of questions, I look forward to the answers.0 -
i think thats whats bugging a lot of people the fact that this was known about in June, yet his team entered him, and then wait till hes about to win, after taking 14 negative drugs tests, and then pull him out...dont knock on death\'s door.....
Ring the bell and leg it...that really pi**es him off....0 -
I'm not cheering Rabobank. They're not clearing the decks, they've just caved in to the relentless picking and insinuation about Rasmussen and are trying to save some face. It's a big decision, but is it the right one?
I'm no Rasmussen fan and he has played the system. I wouldn't have cheered him winning, and his win would've been tainted for sure. But maybe that would've been better than this.
He's failed no tests and he's the strongest rider in the Tour. I wonder if all the other contenders would've survived the inevitable drugs spotlight on whoever was in yellow after the Alps.
Pointing at Rasmussen's TT and mountain win as evidence of doping, as implied in the Guardian today, is easy to do and undermines the authenticity of any great ride ever. Chicken Legs is hardly new to the Tour and has spent time on his TT technique and prep. Mmmm. Levi's going well this year, what's he on? And Mayo's brief comeback in the Alps. Must have been on something, right?
And what was that with ITV4 dedicating so much space to a whipround of the thoughts of fellow journalists? Why should we hear about what Dirk from some obscure Norwegian paper thinks? Media feeding on media. Like a dog eating its own sh1t. Reporters now turned commentators. Idle, and bad practice. The technique is called a vox pop and should've been run on managers, riders and fans. While the press can hardly be blamed for cycling's drugs problem, they seem to delight in being a big part of the testing process. Some will say the pressure will help clean up the Tour, I say it's helping run it into the ground.
I've had it with this year's Tour. It's a joke. :evil:
This is worse than Landis. Once again all my non cycling colleagues are suddenly interested in the farce that I have been talking up as the world's greatest sporting event. They weren't interested when it was in London, but now they're all talking about it, because that's all cycling is, a load of junkies ripping off fans.
Thank God I didn't go and stand on a mountain roadside for hours again this year.
BAH
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Will Rasmussen be banned now? He hasn't tested positive for anything at any point so can they ban him?
Would another team be free to hire him? I'm sure Tinkoff would be interested :twisted:<a><img></a>0 -
This is now beyond farce. Good job there are only 4 days left or there wouldn't be any teams left in the race at all. I have wanted to believe for so long, but now I have given up hope. The only guys you can really believe in are the ones you've never heard of, because somewhere amongst them there might be one or two who've never doped.0
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Moose11 wrote:steveaguy130169 wrote:Moose11 wrote:I'm sure they would be so disapointed. Would you rather Rasmussen had stayed in and won it then?
I mean who do you want to win the race?
well until he WAS proven guilty ( and lets be honest he,s certainly been tested enuogh recently ) i certainly would have prefferred Rasmussen to win, an attacking rider who you would certainly go and watch ... if he,s definatly a cheat then kick him out by all means... but i.. were will it end ?
Certainly ASO dont want 2 TDF,S without a clear winner for sure but at this stage thrown out over missing tests i think its harsh to be honest.
Ok I accped your anti-american cycling rants in two seperate topics as you just being upset about whats happening to your sport but this is just insanity.
So he misses 4 tests in all.. thats FOUR! One you could say ok, stupid mistake, two you might even say he's been an idiot, but FOUR! What do you expect his team to do?
Before starting my job I had to take a drugs test - I didn't miss it. Had I missed four of them I probably would have been fired too.
He shouldn't even have been entered into the race in the first place and kicking him out was the least they could do. Anyway, so you rant about Americans being hypocrits and on the drugs yet when all suspsion points to Rasmussen over his missed tests and lies you think thats ok? So you'd rather see someone like that win than a potentially clean (with no scandle surrounding him) Evans who has worked his tail off in them mountain stages?
A lot of questions, I look forward to the answers.
Read my comments IF Rassmussen is guilty kick him out , but its a totally different case to Vino who tested posative DURING the race ! ... the tests were also over 18 months not 12 the UCI knew so they SHOULD have pulled him if they felt he was a risk .. also why did Prudhomme SUPPORT him then change his tack when the heat was put on ?
I feel if it were a rider in 107 th place they would have been treated differently , sure theres no smoke without fire , but i feel that panic has set in in this case0 -
I cant see how leaving him in would have been better than this. This shows the world the sport is tackling the issue and wont hide behind even suspected superstars unlike most other sports out there. That's a good thing in my view. It would have been a lot uglier had he got to the end in yellow and then it came out he dopped. He's one of the men in black, he missed 4 tests and he's lied about were he was. That is certainly enough for a huge ban from the sport.0
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bigdawg wrote:earthbound you appear to have missed Evans entire mtb career - he was a late starter on the road side of things.
Whats with all this guilty by association crap...??
Anyone in Doscivery must be doped, anyone over 30 must be doped, anyone who sat next to a festina rider in a restaurant ten years ago must be doped...why are you even watching the racing??? :?
No one is saying ALL rider from Disco must be doped it's just that very high profile riders , Landis, Hamilton, Heras ALL failed multiple drugs tests and have been expulsed from the sport, this is fact not flaming.
It has to be stated that they ALL failed drugs tests shortly AFTER leaving Discovery, so Discovery are either clean or better at concealing doping than the teams these riders went on to join, that's including the enormous assumption that these riders even had support from their teams.
You'll have to make your own mind up about that.0 -
when they failed these tests were any of them riding for disco/USP??
To think that disco have some super secret doping programme that no one can detect is a bit stupid, id be more inclined to think it was the pressure of going from domestique and worker to main team rider, and trying to take shortcuts to support their position.
Another thing that really annoyed me this morning Pat McQuaid gloating over rasmussen as though hed just personally uncovered his own Fuentes scandal.
Personally I feel sorry for the guy being let to get into the positoin he has when all this was know about over a month ago. I think its just his team submitting to the pressure of rumour and conjecture, he still hasnt failed one of his 14 drug tests from the last 2 weeks.dont knock on death\'s door.....
Ring the bell and leg it...that really pi**es him off....0 -
Not sure if linch mob justice is the right way to go, but for me, lying about training location is a good enough reason to be sacked by his team. I don't feel qualified to comment on the timing of the action, but Boogard must feel a bit wasted after all his efforts for the Dane.
I can only say that watching the stage yesterday in the good company of other cyclists was a very hollow experience, I did not feel any connection with the top 2-3 at the end and ended up hoping the Dane would be booed over the line.Half man, Half bike0 -
People are saying "why didnt they sack him before the tour"
Well because he had had "2 strikes", and he offered reasons as to why he missed those tests. It has only just come to light that he was in Italy at the time he said he was in mexico, so it seems like Rabo have sacked him as soon as they have found this out. I have no problems with the team for throwing him out now!0 -
"Bergsma said the team officials learned that when Rasmussen had said he was in Mexico - where his wife lives - he had actually been in Italy, working with an as-of-yet-unnamed doctor. "
http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/details/articles/12944.0.html
Wonder who that could have been?0 -
Surely you mean "trainer"...Half man, Half bike0
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Bag o sh*te.
I'm so disappointed at the antics of the officials in charge that I cannae adequately explain my feelings.
Now we have a leader and easily the best rider expelled for no reason.
The organisers seem to be determined to hand the race to Evans, even although he's looked like a donkey amongst thoroughbreds. Lets just hope the most juiced up rider in Tour history(the chappy in the white who has "come good" just in time for the TdF) doesn't win.
Oh well. Who thinks the rest of the team will withdraw?Usquequaque in Ventus
Just once I would like to be called "Sir", without someone adding "You\'re making a scene".0
