Soapbox defenders of Capitalism-attention

Joe Sacco · June 2007

Agree redcogs, the Asda's and Tesco's are not helping. But then I would expect more of Waitrose, probably naively.

None of us live in our ideal world. I am all for capitalism but would prefer a capitalism where animal welfare
was top of the list, which is easily could be with the correct regulations.

I am not convinced there would be no animal abuse in a non capitalist society though as I believe the economy would be weaker and luxuries such as well cared for animals may not be top of the list there either.

Fab Foodie · June 2007

And the socialist workers/marxist/communist whatever means of mass-feeding the populous is REALLY gonna be better?

Ha ha ha ha.....

Have you seen what Governments pay for food for the people it has to feed...school-children, OAP's, prisoners, hospital patients....Oh, yea, they're getting hand picked organic produce, free range cuddled chickens all right...Ha ha ha...

I have to say there is a lot of idealism in this thread and very little practical reality. If the socialist ideal was a good as preached, we'd all be living it wouldn't we? How could Capitalism survive against such a Utopia. Because it's fantasy, that's why.

Keep up the good fight Joe, whilst we'll have to agree to differ over the animal issue, On Capitalism I seem to be in complete agreement FWIW.

The pessimists of this world are rarely disappointed....
Fab's TCR1

MattBlackBigBoysBMX · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

I have to say there is a lot of idealism in this thread and very little practical reality.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Congrats, I owe you a pint.

Wheelies ARE cool.

Gary Askwith · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ankev1

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gary Askwith

My questions you <s>ignored</s> forgot to read on page 10 still remain unanswered Joe:

Are you saying that maximising profits for shareholders has no connection to the animals abuse?
...or that in doing so they are not adhering to principals you hold dear?

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Again forgive me for taking up a question which is directed at Joe. I noticed earlier the highly specific and awful matter of baseball with turkeys and the apparent attempt to link it to the general phenomenon of capitalism.

I think that most reasonable people would say that that act of peculiarly obnoxious cruelty was the result of an immoral choice made by the two workers in question.

A point which could be made is that a capitalist economy makes it economically sensible to grind the maximum profit out of animal husbandry which leads to the IMO inexcusable conditions of battery farming. This is the correct place at which government interference should take place. I suspect that there would be no widespread oppostion to much tougher legislation with respect to the welfare of farm animals even if it did mean paying a bit more for meat, eggs etc.

But to try to link that act of cruelty to capitalism is, frankly, ludicrous.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The item was there to provoke joe rather than providing a direct link...it could be used as a critique-illustration for lots of other ills
Capitalism and communism are historically united in regarding the natural world solely as an exploitable resource utility, there purely for human use and advancement...both idealogies ignore the critical fact that humans are utterly dependant on the health of the biosphere and there are strict thresholds and dire consequences when it is over exploited...up until quite recently this could be side stepped by moving into other, relativly under-exploited areas of the world..... there are no more areas left now
Capitalism, socialism, communism whatever the label they all ignore ecological reality

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ankev1

...A point which could be made is that a capitalist economy makes it economically sensible to grind the maximum profit out of animal husbandry which leads to the IMO inexcusable conditions of battery farming.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Conditions in which the workforce is so brutalised that members of it become capable of unspeakably callous acts of cruelty such as the one Gary instanced, I would say...

So you voted, and now you've got a government. I just hope YOU like it.

Soapbox defenders of Capitalism-attention

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