Soapbox defenders of Capitalism-attention

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Flying_Monkey

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I've got clients who own a lot of them and have substantial incomes from them. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's still not the same thing, Patrick. It's unearned income, sure, but it is not based on the appropriation of the labour of others. [/quote]

Oh yes it is! Who do you think built it? Some poor* sod of a brickie.

*the poor is relative as this comment was prompted by my dealing a minute or so ago with a client's property bought as an investment from a builder, who I know is paying his brickies œ1k per week. They are believed to be unconcerned at the appropriation of their labour.

redcogs · June 2007

Thanks 'Monkey.

i've noticed the dreg scavengers seem to be feeling a bit uncomfortable today.

my theory is that it always happens when they get a sound tubbing about education or some other area of social policy.

You would think they would learn and stick to safe areas for argument - like grammar or punctuation.

(can anyone spell Dillusional?)

please look up to the stars.. ***

spire · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Flying_Monkey

Spire, in particular, and others, also seem not to understand the political theory to which redcogs subscribes anyway - whether out of genuine ignorance or spite.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I resent this unfair comment.

I have said many times what a decent bloke redcogs is, and the robust comments given and received should not be crudely mistaken for spite.

spire · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Flying_Monkey

[That's still not the same thing, Patrick. It's unearned income, sure, but it is not based on the appropriation of the labour of others. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ahem. One supposes they have to labour to get the money to pay the rent. Unless they're criminals, of course.

Perhaps that's it: it is acceptable to the left to become very rich by renting out properties to thieves and extortionists.[:0]

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

I have said many times what a decent bloke redcogs is, and the robust comments given and received should not be crudely mistaken for spite.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

May I endorse this. Let's not get too serious. Most of us find this sort of thing a bit of light relief and enjoy a bit of knockabout joshing of the sort you find amongst friends at a sports club. Redders is a thoroughly decent chap who enjoys a ding dong.

Regulator · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redcogs

Thanks 'Monkey.

i've noticed the dreg scavengers seem to be feeling a bit uncomfortable today.

my theory is that it always happens when they get a sound tubbing about education or some other area of social policy.

You would think they would learn and stick to safe areas for argument - like grammar or punctuation.

(can anyone spell Dillusional?)

please look up to the stars.. ***
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It's delusional

___________________________
Bugger elephants - capabari are cuter!

Flying_Monkey · June 2007

Ah, I see. Your comments are knock-about fun. Mine are 'too serious', 'unfair' and cause 'resentment'. Interesting... may I suggest that this says rather more about your own sensitivities and (in)ability to construct a coherent and knowledgeable argument than mine? [;)]

Now I guess I'll have to tell 'em
That I got no cerebellum
Gonna get my Ph.D.
I'm a teenage lobotomy

Gary Askwith · June 2007

Hmmmm
After 4 hours ankev is the only one with the integrity/openess to answer my question...somehow I doubt the rest of you will bother, so Again the simple question "what are you afraid of boys?"[:)]
That you earn 4/5/6/7/8/9 x the national wage?
That this fact has disproportionate influence on your political stance and attitude?

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Flying_Monkey

Ah, I see. Your comments are knock-about fun. Mine are 'too serious', 'unfair' and cause 'resentment'. Interesting... may I suggest that this says rather more about your own sensitivities and (in)ability to construct a coherent and knowledgeable argument than mine? [;)]

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Or that you take yourself rather seriously. [;)]

spire · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Flying_Monkey

... may I suggest that this says rather more about your own sensitivities and (in)ability to construct a coherent and knowledgeable argument than mine? [;)]

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No. I think it suggests a deficiency in your humour department.[;)][:D]

Joe Sacco · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redcogs

You lot make me laugh, always behaving like a pack of circling wolves, and always failing to understand basics.

There is a difference between owning possessions like dishwashers and televisions on the one hand and owning factories or chemical plants on the other. One type of possession carries no income with it, but adds to the joy or convenience of life. The other type does carry income, and any rational system would ensure that society owned those, in order that everyone should benefit from any improvements in productivity, rather than just a tiny minority of exploiters of other peoples labour.

Not so difficult to grasp is it?

please look up to the stars.. ***
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Not difficult to grasp. But why when society owns the companies the companies always go to pot? Lack of competition, lack of drive of employees?

Joe Sacco · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gary Askwith

Hmmmm
After 4 hours ankev is the only one with the integrity/openess to answer my question...somehow I doubt the rest of you will bother, so Again the simple question "what are you afraid of boys?"[:)]
That you earn 4/5/6/7/8/9 x the national wage?
That this fact has disproportionate influence on your political stance and attitude?

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My yearly bonus is the same as the national average wage. (now wait for everyone to say I am bragging, which is exactly why people don't like to answer such questions!)

However, my political stance has not changed. I haven't always earned a high salary, i.e when I first started work, yet have always believed in a competitive society where those who put the effort in can be rewarded fairly. But I also believe in National Health and other basics for those that don't/can't put the effort in.

The Endorser · June 2007

i'm a police sergeant. I earn ok, though i won't be buying a Lamborghini any time soon, but what little I have got didn't come from pondering capitalism over communism.

Wherever one lives in the world, one finds something that one is reasonably good at and one gets on with eaning an honest coin. The filthy lucre is highly prized by virtually everyone, everywhere, regardless or race, religion or political inclination.

The ones that tend to moan are the ones that are too bone idel lazy to work for it and get bitter, thinking erroneously that the world owes them a favour.

Eating baby elephants since 1969

Flying_Monkey · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire
No. I think it suggests a deficiency in your humour department.[;)][:D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I wasn't the one complaining about resenting unfair posts...

I do appreciate the delicious irony of those who take themselves very seriously indeed and then furiously backpedal and pretend to be comedians when challenged on any substantive point.

So I guess we're all happy now... [:o)]

Now I guess I'll have to tell 'em
That I got no cerebellum
Gonna get my Ph.D.
I'm a teenage lobotomy

Russell_john · June 2007

I run a business and very soon I am planniing to employ staff abroad to make my products - cheaper for me (my business) and therefore cheaper for you to buy. Does that make me a capitalist? I don't think so.

The business is mine, the monies invested are mine; the risk is mine, the dynamic is mine, the creative vision oh and did I mention the risk?

Will it make me financially rich? Yes I damned well hope so. But also it will make those who make my products rich as well - as what I pay them will go directly into their pockets in a community there money is a scarce resource.

Of course Redcogs will now bleat on about me being the cruel capitalist opressing the masses, but actually I see it as doing something to positively help those who otherwise will not be able to help themselves. I will not use child labour and I will only expect a reasonable working day (by western standards that is).

Of course I could just give my business to them, or close it down, or give it to the state. None of those ideas is particularly appealing actually so I shall needless to say have to live my life with the aching guilt of being a caplitlist exploiter - in the knowledge that the school my business is going to be building in their community, the education my business risk is providing would of course have been provided by an amoral capitalist pigdog....

Incidentally at this moment I live on zero income - savings only, so a big fat zero in the income stakes. So compared to Redcogs I demand to take the moral highground and actually over the last twenty years I have been a net contributor to society. Never taken benefits at all, no income support, no child support no tax credits, nothing - in fact Redcogs I think in some part of my earned income has gone some way to supporting you and your kin.

I can sleep better at night knowing that somewhere up in Banff(?) there is someone I have helped, however indirectly, even though he loathes the process by which the help was provided.

Happy days - when will 'socialists' learn that taking the moral high ground is about as pointless as trying to knit custard.

are they wibbin me Centurwion?

spire · June 2007

A strange logic FM.

Why does it indicate a lack of a sense of humour on my part because I resent you falsely accusing me of being spiteful to redcogs?

Are you saying you meant your comment in jest? Certainly there was nothing to indicate that was so.

Gary Askwith · June 2007

For people (by your own default in this contex) who presumably earn a lot more than the national wage and who 'put the effort in and rewarded fairly' you seem to spend an awful lot of( presumably) someone else's money-earning time posting on this forum [xx(][;)]

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gary Askwith

For people (by your own default in this contex) who presumably earn a lot more than the national wage and who 'put the effort in and rewarded fairly' you seem to spend an awful lot of( presumably) someone else's money-earning time posting on this forum [xx(][;)]

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm self employed. [;)]

Joe Sacco · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gary Askwith

For people (by your own default in this contex) who presumably earn a lot more than the national wage and who 'put the effort in and rewarded fairly' you seem to spend an awful lot of( presumably) someone else's money-earning time posting on this forum [xx(][;)]

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Good isn't it. We know how to play the capitalist game properly. Get in there and take what you can rather than sitting about moaning how unfair it all is.

spire · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gary Askwith

you seem to spend an awful lot of( presumably) someone else's money-earning time
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wrong. [;)]

Flying_Monkey · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

A strange logic FM.

Why does it indicate a lack of a sense of humour on my part because I resent you falsely accusing me of being spiteful to redcogs?

Are you saying you meant your comment in jest? Certainly there was nothing to indicate that was so.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I do enjoy the confusion you suffer with logic.

Here's the sequence:

You attack redcogs.

I say: 'hey, stop attacking redcogs, and in any case you're wrong because...'

You say: 'I was only joking. You have no sense of humour.'

I say: 'Now that's funny.'

You say: 'but I don't understand'

I say: [:o)]

Now I guess I'll have to tell 'em
That I got no cerebellum
Gonna get my Ph.D.
I'm a teenage lobotomy

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gary Askwith

For people (by your own default in this contex) who presumably earn a lot more than the national wage and who 'put the effort in and rewarded fairly' you seem to spend an awful lot of( presumably) someone else's money-earning time posting on this forum [xx(][;)]

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Capitalists can work faster than lefties. [:)]

Unkraut · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gary Askwith

For people (by your own default in this contex) who presumably earn a lot more than the national wage and who 'put the effort in and rewarded fairly' you seem to spend an awful lot of( presumably) someone else's money-earning time posting on this forum [xx(][;)]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Just out of interest, what is the average national wage in Britain at the moment?

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Unkraut

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gary Askwith

For people (by your own default in this contex) who presumably earn a lot more than the national wage and who 'put the effort in and rewarded fairly' you seem to spend an awful lot of( presumably) someone else's money-earning time posting on this forum [xx(][;)]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Just out of interest, what is the average national wage in Britain at the moment?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Joe's bonus

Gary Askwith · June 2007

Ah so you admit the self employed are a bit idle and could do a lot more work befitting their hugely inflated salary......just as we suspected [;)]

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

Flying_Monkey · June 2007

The average wage last year was œ23244, or œ460 / week. Almost 65% of Britain's workers earn under this, whereas there are an increasing number of super-rich who earn many times this amount. The gap between the highest earners and the lowest is the greatest it has ever been in modern Britain.

Now I guess I'll have to tell 'em
That I got no cerebellum
Gonna get my Ph.D.
I'm a teenage lobotomy

Gary Askwith · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Unkraut

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gary Askwith

For people (by your own default in this contex) who presumably earn a lot more than the national wage and who 'put the effort in and rewarded fairly' you seem to spend an awful lot of( presumably) someone else's money-earning time posting on this forum [xx(][;)]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Just out of interest, what is the average national wage in Britain at the moment?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

[url][/url]http://www.socialsecurity.gov/OACT/COLA/AWI.html[url][/url]

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

Bcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Flying_Monkey

The average wage last year was œ23244, or œ460 / week. Almost 65% of Britain's workers earn under this, whereas there are an increasing number of super-rich who earn many times this amount. The gap between the highest earners and the lowest is the greatest it has ever been in modern Britain.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Though I generally agree that the inequality in Britons' wealth is getting greater assuming you are taking 'modern' in its historical sense (i.e. post-1453) I doubt your analysis. I would think that our wealth was more inequal prior to WW1, gradually started to converge and then started to diverge again from the mid-80s onward.

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Flying_Monkey

The average wage last year was œ23244, or œ460 / week. Almost 65% of Britain's workers earn under this, whereas there are an increasing number of super-rich who earn many times this amount. The gap between the highest earners and the lowest is the greatest it has ever been in modern Britain.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Or, to put it another way, there's a correlation between the highest ever average earnings and an increasing number of super rich.

Flying_Monkey · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens
Or, to put it another way, there's a correlation between the highest ever average earnings and an increasing number of super rich.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Careful with your stats, Eugene...

Now I guess I'll have to tell 'em
That I got no cerebellum
Gonna get my Ph.D.
I'm a teenage lobotomy

Soapbox defenders of Capitalism-attention

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