Portsmouth = 1st city with a blanket 20mph limit

mangaman · June 2007

Sorry to butt in on page 46 but the IAM advanced driving test you claim to have passed is very clear on the fact exceeding the speed limit is unacceptable.

I think you should have failed the test

From their site
http://www.iam.org.uk/aboutus/advancedt ... ations.htm
Any excessive speed above the statutory speed limit, or the use of speed inappropriate for the circumstances regardless of any limit is dangerous and unacceptable

|||||

Cretin · June 2007

If you think I should have failed the test then feel free to apply to them as an examiner.

Fab Foodie · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spesh

BTW folks, you've only 39 pages to go before this thread equals the current length of the "girls in lycra" thread over in Cake Stop.

As you were...

<hr noshade size="1">"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein)

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Agreed. Best post on this thread so far.
Talk about misplaced energy!
Instead of endlessly horn-locking on this thread they should use their abilities to find more Lycra-clad lovelies.

The pessimists of this world are rarely disappointed....
Fab's TCR1

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

You seem to take great delight in pointing out people's mistakes - but you don't enjoy it when the same happens to you. It reinforces my opinion that you're not interested in debate on this topic. I think you enjoy this - you feel it gives you a chance to posture, to impress the people reading your words. Thats why when somebody points out a flaw in your argument, you can only respond with abuse, or more questions. Its pathetic. A waste of pixels.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No mistake there mate. You just didn't understand my comment. Well, unlessy you did buy were trying to divert the argument.

So, away from another attempt of yours to distract, and back onto the discussion.

What was the flaw in my argument again? I said that anyone who exceeds the speed limit is careless and dangerous. You asked whether the police are ever careless and dangerous. You now know that I was not clear enough in my first comment, and so I have explained more clearly. And that explaination, which includes comments about need and risk, shows clearly that I haven't changed my mind or contradicted myself, and that the flaw you seek to point out isn't there.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

I don't really feel any need whatsoever to exceed the speed limit. I just don't pay it much attention, since it has little relevance to my safety as a driver. By driving this way, I serve myself, but by focussing on and understanding the real road safety issues I serve those around me. I believe strongly that this attitude makes me a much safer driver than those who observe one aspect of road law as though they're on a personal quest, at the expense of learning anything else. You think that because many people think speed limits are largely irrelevant, it must follow that they tend to exceed them. The truth of the matter couldn't be more different. I'm obsessed with speed, but not the speed you think. I'm obsessed with speed thats suitable for the conditions. You'll never understand the difference, or if you do you'll never admit to it - and neither will the government.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Right-

1) So you accept that the emergency services sometimes have the need to exeed the speed limit, but you don't. Great. That's another of your arguments that you need no longer bother using.

2)Your safety as a driver. Interesting comment. You're not serving anyone but yourself, but you don't worry about that because you don't think you are compromising your safety. Though, by speeding, you compromise the safety to others. You accept that you do, because you accept that there is an increased risk with police driving at speed. Otherwise you would not be able to try to use that thread of the argument.

3) And who exactly "observe(s) one aspect of road law as if they're on a personal quest at the expense of learning anything else"? No-one on here does. The government doesn't. The police don't. The reality is that no-one does. And it's an untruth created to try to put weight behind the case against people who oppose speeding. Just because someone disagrees with you you make an assumption that they aren't interested in any other aspect to road safety. And that's just silly.

The SS and his supporters are the only ones who obsess about speed. And then when someone challenges you, you claim that the opposers are the obsessives. Read the thread title cretin. Then read the other threads on here about road safety. RLJing?? No mention of speed there.

Nope, that one doesn't work.

4) You seem to think that you are qualified to take the higher ground, when you don't consider the fact that there are plenty of us who are as experiencially qualified as you on the roads, and many who are more experienced. You seem to think that a certain level of road competence can only be reached when one discounts speed limits.

Well cretin, there's a level above that. There's the level where one undertands the argument that speed apologists use, but decides in their wisdom that the knowledge is all that is needed, and there its no need to act on the knowledge. It's the level where one accepts that there may be certain situations where driving above the limit carries little (but always some) added risk. It's also the level where one recognises that the limits are there for a good reason, and that obsessing about speed, as you admit to, is not worth it. There is the point where one acknowledges that having that knowledge but remaining within the limit doesn't mean that one is a lesser man. Interesting that it was you who mentioned ego.

It's a good place to be cretin. It's way safer, and it takes into account others rather than pure personal gain. And you could get here if you want to.[;)] And it doesn't cost œ85.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

Oh, and Bonjy-

Just to highlight the fact that your perception of me is intentionally exaggerated-

Stratford, Saturday morning. Cycling down a very narrow one way street (the right way). Two blokes and an older lady walk out into the road without looking. I slowed down, giving them enough room to continue to cross. But then idiot number one (about 35-40, well built) decides that he doesn't want to cross the road and would be much happier walking away from me down the centre of it (they still don't know I'm there). Space is getting a bit tight now, so I give them a polite ring of my bell to let them know of my presence.

Idiot number one is spooked by it and swings round. His pride then took over and he complained that I left it too late to ring. I reminded him that he shouldn't really be walking down the middle of a road when there are pavements either side. He goes into overdrive and threatens, setence laden with f, c and t words to rip me from my bike. I smile at him, fully aware that we are now at a t-junction with stationary traffic on both sides of the road we have met, most of the drivers watching with some interest. Meanwhile his mother (or girlfriend if he likes older women) is trying to calm him down. Every time he looks at me he starts ranting again, but makes no effort to carry out any of his tediously repeated threats.

Highly entertaining.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You don't explain why "space was a bit tight". You say he 'decided he didn't want to' cross the road, rather than couldn't. Presumably there weren't any cars following / overtaking you then, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to start to cross the road and the women wouldn't have been able to either? So why did you not just then use that space to go round him?

Still, I never think it's a good idea to lecture other road users on how to behave, even if you're totally right and they're completely in the wrong.

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

Cretin · June 2007

Theres a spare pedestal in Trafalgar Square Mister Paul. I know you're waiting for it, but it isn't waiting for you.

Mister Paul · June 2007

Bonj's dissection of the event[;)]-

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

You don't explain why "space was a bit tight". You say he 'decided he didn't want to' cross the road, rather than couldn't. Presumably there weren't any cars following / overtaking you then, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to start to cross the road and the women wouldn't have been able to either? So why did you not just then use that space to go round him?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I did explain. Space was a bit tight because I had assumed, apparently wrongly, that they were crossing the road. They didn't. They turned in the direction of the traffic and continued to walk down the road. Spread out, in a space little more than the width of a car. No space to squeeze past. At no point did they look in the direction that the traffic was coming from. There was a car behind me.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

Still, I never think it's a good idea to lecture other road users on how to behave, even if you're totally right and they're completely in the wrong.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I agree. Who was lecturing? I didn't see anyone there lecturing.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

Theres a spare pedestal in Trafalgar Square Mister Paul. I know you're waiting for it, but it isn't waiting for you.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The thing about debates, cretin, is that they show arguments up for what they are. Yours didn't hold up to much did it? And you, an experienced driver n'all.

You've given up on yours. Shall I let Paulie know that another of his sycophants has failed, or will you be over there claiming victory?

If you feel like you want to continue the discussion again at any time in the future, please feel free to pop back. Next time may I suggest that you bring some new material with you? All you came with is the same old pap that always comes over. Your arguments are all old, and never stand up to challenge.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

Cretin · June 2007

I haven't given up on the argument. I've merely given up arguing with you, for the reasons above. Almost everybody else managed to get their case across without sounding quite so superior.

Have the last word if you like, I'm sure you'll gain more fans because of it.

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

I haven't given up on the argument. I've merely given up arguing with you, for the reasons above. Almost everybody else managed to get their case across without sounding quite so superior.

Have the last word if you like, I'm sure you'll gain more fans because of it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Oh riiiggghhht. So you've given up arguing with me? And Tony? And Rothbook? And anyone else who may come along with points that pull your argument down?

You don't like Rothbook because he uses nasty words? You don't like Tony because he is offensive? And you don't like me because I make you feel inferior?

Oh...wait...hold on...you said "You'll never understand the difference" -and you think I've got feelings of superiority?

OK cretin. If it makes you feel better. <pats head>. See, your Paulie gets to the stage you've just got to, and he's ok. Because he has a little gaggle of people who use him, and he them, who will tell him how right he is. It's harder for you cretin. Because you're also wrong. And you haven't got any goslings. So you have to stop debating with the ones who say things you can't answer.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

jamesAC · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

Besides Bonjy, if you're doing 20mph and there is a ped crossing the road in front of you, you have to stop.

And you don't like that.

Great, isn't it?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes, legally maybe. But what's he going to do if I give him a nice long beeping - stand in the middle of the road holding up the statute book pointing to the ancient 12th century law of pilgrim's rights of passage? Or just scurry along nicely to the other side like a good little ped?
Yep. Methinks a good blast of the old horn's going to ensure the latter.

edit: i think if he does the former, the most likely outcome is that he's going to get promptly sectioned. hee hee! [:D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No. When it happened to me and my wife, I gave the bonnet of the offending BMW a huge whack with my fist, causing a several-œ100 dint.

That'll larn him!

Why did Noddy pay the ransom? - Because the elephants have got big ears!

jamesAC

Jaded · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

I haven't given up on the argument. I've merely given up arguing with you, for the reasons above. Almost everybody else managed to get their case across without sounding quite so superior.

Have the last word if you like, I'm sure you'll gain more fans because of it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The great thing about the SS forum is that it is full of like-minded people who all agree* and therefore must be right.

*There is a secret part - think of it as the curtained bit in the camper van where the sex goes on, out of sight of the children. Possibly some real discussion goes on here.
*Anyone who disagrees gets pushed out of the door of the campervan by the appointed heavies (Paul shouts instructons from driver's seat)

--
[Warning] This post may contain a baby elephant or traces of one

Cunobelin · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> If you think I should have failed the test then feel free to apply to them as an examiner.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Accepting your claims - The point is that the examiner failed to apply the correct standards to the test. An exam that does this is by definition - invalid. The examiner also requires retraining.

Last time this claim was made a challenge was issued..........

Write to the IAM and ask them if this test was valid, then name the examiner.

Post the reply here with the personal details removed and let's see if the IAM accepts the examiner's assessment.

Edited - I doubt there is any more chance of the challenge being accepted in this case either

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)

normal · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

Oh, and Bonjy-

Just to highlight the fact that your perception of me is intentionally exaggerated-

Stratford, Saturday morning. Cycling down a very narrow one way street (the right way). Two blokes and an older lady walk out into the road without looking. I slowed down, giving them enough room to continue to cross. But then idiot number one (about 35-40, well built) decides that he doesn't want to cross the road and would be much happier walking away from me down the centre of it (they still don't know I'm there). Space is getting a bit tight now, so I give them a polite ring of my bell to let them know of my presence.

Idiot number one is spooked by it and swings round. His pride then took over and he complained that I left it too late to ring. I reminded him that he shouldn't really be walking down the middle of a road when there are pavements either side. He goes into overdrive and threatens, setence laden with f, c and t words to rip me from my bike. I smile at him, fully aware that we are now at a t-junction with stationary traffic on both sides of the road we have met, most of the drivers watching with some interest. Meanwhile his mother (or girlfriend if he likes older women) is trying to calm him down. Every time he looks at me he starts ranting again, but makes no effort to carry out any of his tediously repeated threats.

Highly entertaining.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Three mistakes there.
You should have said " Can/may I pass you please", not rung your bell.
You should not have pointed out that he should have been on the pavement.It wound him up.
You should never smile at people who are aggressive.It just makes them more aggressive

Cunobelin · June 2007

The Boss meets jamesAC's Mother

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)

TheJollyJimLad · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cunobelin

The Boss meets jamesAC's Mother

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:D][:D][:D]

How many boards would the Mongols hoard if the Mongol hordes got bored?

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cunobelin

The Boss meets jamesAC's Mother

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That's quite funny [:D]
But the sound of the bag hitting the car is superimposed onto the top, you can tell 'cos it lags the picture.

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by normal

Three mistakes there.
You should have said " Can/may I pass you please", not rung your bell.
You should not have pointed out that he should have been on the pavement.It wound him up.
You should never smile at people who are aggressive.It just makes them more aggressive
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks for your advice paggers, but I'd still choose the same actions if it happened again.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

normal · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by normal

Three mistakes there.
You should have said " Can/may I pass you please", not rung your bell.
You should not have pointed out that he should have been on the pavement.It wound him up.
You should never smile at people who are aggressive.It just makes them more aggressive
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks for your advice paggers, but I'd still choose the same actions if it happened again.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What is it with you that on both occasions you reply to my posts you use the word paggers?
Bear in mind you could have finished up on the wrong end of a good hiding before you dismiss my advice.

rothbook · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> You should have said " Can/may I pass you please", not rung your bell. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Guffaw.

Where have all these twunts suddenly come from?

Mister Paul · June 2007

Thanks but no thanks to your advice pags.

I doubt very much that he'd have done anything in front of such a captive audience, and his mom/girlfriend who was trying to calm him down. Or are you suggesting we should all pander to aggressive bullies?

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

normal · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> You should have said " Can/may I pass you please", not rung your bell. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Guffaw.

Where have all these twunts suddenly come from?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sorry. Your point being?

normal · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

Thanks but no thanks to your advice pags.

I doubt very much that he'd have done anything in front of such a captive audience, and his mom/girlfriend who was trying to calm him down. Or are you suggesting we should all pander to aggressive bullies?

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Please drop the pag ,paggers .I don't know what you are on about.
What I am suggesting is that it is sometimes better to avoid trouble rather than provoke it.
The incident obviousy affected you otherwise you wouldn't have taken the time to relate it.
Try chilling out a bit.

Cretin · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cunobelin

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> If you think I should have failed the test then feel free to apply to them as an examiner.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Accepting your claims - The point is that the examiner failed to apply the correct standards to the test. An exam that does this is by definition - invalid. The examiner also requires retraining.

Last time this claim was made a challenge was issued..........

Write to the IAM and ask them if this test was valid, then name the examiner.

Post the reply here with the personal details removed and let's see if the IAM accepts the examiner's assessment.

Edited - I doubt there is any more chance of the challenge being accepted in this case either<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I made quite a few mistakes while taking my test. All of them were pointed out to me, and I have since taken steps to ensure I do not make them again.

Not getting 100% on an exam does not mean you fail it. As I have already said, the exam isn't really the important part of the training, and having the qualification makes no difference to me whatsoever. Knowing and understanding what was wrong with my driving before I took the course, and taking steps to correct that behaviour - that's what's important.

Mister Paul · June 2007

What's wrong with ringing the bell pags?

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by normal

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

Thanks but no thanks to your advice pags.

I doubt very much that he'd have done anything in front of such a captive audience, and his mom/girlfriend who was trying to calm him down. Or are you suggesting we should all pander to aggressive bullies?

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Please drop the pag ,paggers .I don't know what you are on about.
What I am suggesting is that it is sometimes better to avoid trouble rather than provoke it.
The incident obviousy affected you otherwise you wouldn't have taken the time to relate it.
Try chilling out a bit.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

How is ringing a bell provoking trouble? I'm not responsible for the reaction and action of a thug.

The incident was relayed to our Bonjy because he thinks that I believe pedestrians have a right and so should be allowed to wander aimlessly down the middle of the road. As you well know paggers.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

Flying_Monkey · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by normal

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> You should have said " Can/may I pass you please", not rung your bell. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Guffaw.

Where have all these twunts suddenly come from?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sorry. Your point being?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That you appear to be both a troll and a fool - all at once too, that's quite a trick.

Nighty night.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety

normal · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Flying_Monkey

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by normal

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> You should have said " Can/may I pass you please", not rung your bell. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Guffaw.

Where have all these twunts suddenly come from?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sorry. Your point being?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That you appear to be both a troll and a fool - all at once too, that's quite a trick.

Nighty night.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Do explain that remark.
It was made apparent that Mister Paul was near enough to verbally warn the "offender" of his presence,so why should he antagonise him by ringing his bell?
It would seem that anyone who ventures onto this forum who is not entirely in agreement with the vociferous majority is branded a fool and a troll.

Jaded · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by normal

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

Thanks but no thanks to your advice pags.

I doubt very much that he'd have done anything in front of such a captive audience, and his mom/girlfriend who was trying to calm him down. Or are you suggesting we should all pander to aggressive bullies?

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Please drop the pag ,paggers .I don't know what you are on about.
What I am suggesting is that it is sometimes better to avoid trouble rather than provoke it.
The incident obviousy affected you otherwise you wouldn't have taken the time to relate it.
Try chilling out a bit.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

ooh!

It is paggers again!

Hello paggers!

--
[Warning] This post may contain a baby elephant or traces of one

normal · June 2007

You're all stark raving mad .
Good bye all.

P.S.
Real cyclists don't need little tinkly devices ,but what would you lot know ,eh?

Portsmouth = 1st city with a blanket 20mph limit

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