The Smoking Ban 01/07/07

Unknown · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Sacco
The opposite actually, as smoking increases stress levels.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

According to Mr Carr (who helped me give up), I believe it is a bit more complicated than that Joe.

Tourist Tony · May 2007

Well, I find smokers DO force their smoke on me. The passion in the argument against smoking might not be quite so strong if so many smokers did not insist on ignoring no-smoking signs.

If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or Dick

thedoctor · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Peyote

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TheDoctor

I hate leaving a pub with sore eyes, a sore throat, smelly clothes and smelly hair. Too feckin' right I'm going to target smokers, because they are the selfish shits blethering on about their rights while trampling all over mine. So sod them. If they want to kill themselves then good riddance.[:(!]<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't really understand this argument, why is anyone forced into going into a pub/restaurant where there are smokers? I could understand rights being abused if they were forced into it but it's a personal choice to go into these places.

If anyones rights are being trampled over it's the landlords decisions on how he/she operates their pub. the only possible argument I can see is the bar-staff being forced into working in a smoking environment.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TheDoctor
And who's mentioned overweight people other than you? I'd object if they tried to forcefeed me, but that's about it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I doubt smokers try to force their smoke onto you, if you choose to visit pubs/resturants where there are smokers, that's a choice, you're not being forced into it. Unless you work in one of these places...

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

RANT ON[:(!]

I don't 'choose' to visit 'smokey' pubs - THEY'RE ALL FULL OF SMOKE! Note I don't say full of smokers! Are you totally stupid not to have noticed this? Are you blind with no sense of smell? Can you point to lots of non-smoking pubs? So where's my choice now, feckwit? Taken away by the selfish whatsits referred to above, that's where. Roll on the ban. I'm off to Ireland tomorrow, where the pubs have been smoke free for a few years now. Hopefully I'll calm down a bit. I'm not normally as ratty as this. Maybe I need a smoke.[:D]

And...relax. Deep breath. [/rant off]

OK - I'll just have one more baby elephant...

BigBren · May 2007

I haven't been in a pub since I stopped smoking last October - I can't be around it. I'm very much looking forward therefore, to taking the Mrs for a quiet drink on or about the 1st July, without inhaling other peoples smoke and going home with streaming eyes and my clothes and hair reeking like an old ashtray.

Bren

Tourist Tony · May 2007

I was in Italy both pre- and post-ban. What a difference, in everywhere from bars to mountain restaurants.
Lovely.
Last time I was in Spain was before their new laws, and I remember being joined at breakfast in a crowded hotel by a series of people whose first act, on sitting down at the table I was at, was to light up. No excuse me, no do you mind, just smoke.
Sitting on a terrace at IIRC the Vassa Felix winery restaurant in Western Australia a Singaporean businessman lit up his cigar, holding it behind him so as not to annoy his tablemates. He held it right next to a family with small children, and when asked not to do so replied that there was no law against it (outdoors terrace) so "Tough".
Not all smokers are like that, but there are an awful lot that are. A major reason why they are hated so much.

If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or Dick

mr_hippo · May 2007

Personally, I would love to ban alcohol. My ex-wife was an alcoholic. I worked damned hard for the 31 years that I was with her - worked overseas, worked seven 12 hours nights a week for almost 2 years - without a break, lost my dream house and car. Myself and three daughters went thought hell and back, my five grandchildren lost their grandmother - need I go on? She left me on March 28th 2001, took most of the furniture with her and left me with a mountain of debt, in a rented house in a 5h1t part of town and 34p in the bank. She died on New Year's Day 2005 and Sunday would have been her 57th birthday.
So, please, go to the pub/wine bar, enjoy your pleasure without a thought of what may happen to you or yours.

http://bangkokhippo.blogspot.com/

Ex-XXL weigh-in 26/27 May: Update published: Monday 28 May

Ashtrayhead · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TheDoctor

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Peyote

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TheDoctor

I hate leaving a pub with sore eyes, a sore throat, smelly clothes and smelly hair. Too feckin' right I'm going to target smokers, because they are the selfish shits blethering on about their rights while trampling all over mine. So sod them. If they want to kill themselves then good riddance.[:(!]<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't really understand this argument, why is anyone forced into going into a pub/restaurant where there are smokers? I could understand rights being abused if they were forced into it but it's a personal choice to go into these places.

If anyones rights are being trampled over it's the landlords decisions on how he/she operates their pub. the only possible argument I can see is the bar-staff being forced into working in a smoking environment.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TheDoctor
And who's mentioned overweight people other than you? I'd object if they tried to forcefeed me, but that's about it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I doubt smokers try to force their smoke onto you, if you choose to visit pubs/resturants where there are smokers, that's a choice, you're not being forced into it. Unless you work in one of these places...

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

RANT ON[:(!]

I don't 'choose' to visit 'smokey' pubs - THEY'RE ALL FULL OF SMOKE! Note I don't say full of smokers! Are you totally stupid not to have noticed this? Are you blind with no sense of smell? Can you point to lots of non-smoking pubs? So where's my choice now, feckwit? Taken away by the selfish whatsits referred to above, that's where. Roll on the ban. I'm off to Ireland tomorrow, where the pubs have been smoke free for a few years now. Hopefully I'll calm down a bit. I'm not normally as ratty as this. Maybe I need a smoke.[:D]

And...relax. Deep breath. [/rant off]

OK - I'll just have one more baby elephant...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes

'Don't Walk, Don't Smoke, Don't Drink', Don't Think'

Unknown · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TheDoctor

RANT ON[:(!]

I don't 'choose' to visit 'smokey' pubs - THEY'RE ALL FULL OF SMOKE! Note I don't say full of smokers! Are you totally stupid not to have noticed this? Are you blind with no sense of smell? Can you point to lots of non-smoking pubs? So where's my choice now, feckwit? Taken away by the selfish whatsits referred to above, that's where. Roll on the ban. I'm off to Ireland tomorrow, where the pubs have been smoke free for a few years now. Hopefully I'll calm down a bit. I'm not normally as ratty as this. Maybe I need a smoke.[:D]

And...relax. Deep breath. [/rant off]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Jeez, I shouldn't have shaken that particular cage! [;)]

RE: Your question about non-smoking pubs, I know of four within five miles of where I live, indeed one is my local. So there's my choice, if there are this many in my immeadiate vicinity then there should be some in your area, have you even looked?

You still haven't worked out that you have a choice not to go into the pub in the first place!

Hope you have fun in Ireland, it looks like a beautiful place, love to go there myself one day.

Gary Askwith · May 2007

Tony has it right...in my experience a substantial proporion of smokers are selfish antisocial gits with no imagination or consideration for others
Can't wait
Good Riddance
Should have happened 20 yrs ago

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

Unknown · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tourist Tony

Well, I find smokers DO force their smoke on me. The passion in the argument against smoking might not be quite so strong if so many smokers did not insist on ignoring no-smoking signs.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well I've got nothing against that TT, if there are 'no smoking' signs then they should be adhered to. I suspect as in every other out-group it's the inconsiderate b*stards who spread the tar* over all the others!

edited to add - *please ignore this pun, it wasn't intentional!

The Bosscp · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

Smoking is their choice. A non-smoker being enveloped in fumes in a restaurant by a smoker isn't.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well it is their choice, they can choose to ask them to stop smoking as often happens and they usually oblige. Or they can choose not to go to that restaurant.

The Bosscp · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tourist Tony

I was in Italy both pre- and post-ban. What a difference, in everywhere from bars to mountain restaurants.
Lovely.
Last time I was in Spain was before their new laws, and I remember being joined at breakfast in a crowded hotel by a series of people whose first act, on sitting down at the table I was at, was to light up. No excuse me, no do you mind, just smoke.
Sitting on a terrace at IIRC the Vassa Felix winery restaurant in Western Australia a Singaporean businessman lit up his cigar, holding it behind him so as not to annoy his tablemates. He held it right next to a family with small children, and when asked not to do so replied that there was no law against it (outdoors terrace) so "Tough".
Not all smokers are like that, but there are an awful lot that are. A major reason why they are hated so much.

If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or Dick
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
But these are just isolated examples.

redcogs · May 2007

One big plus with my recent move to Scotland is the smoking ban in all public places (inside i think). It makes such a big difference to your general quality of life - cafes are comfortable, pubs are brilliant with the absence of the killer haze, an all round beneficial reform.

i've been touched by the fall out from an alcoholic mr hippo.. you have my sympathy in spades. Hopefully things will go easier in the future - your strong sense of humour has perhaps sustained you.

please look up to the stars.. ***

Joe Sacco · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Peyote

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Sacco
The opposite actually, as smoking increases stress levels.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

According to Mr Carr (who helped me give up), I believe it is a bit more complicated than that Joe.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It may well be, all I am doing is putting straight the comment than people would be more stressed if they gave up. A person who does not smoke has lower stress levels than someone that does (all other things being equal of course)

Joe Sacco · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

Smoking is their choice. A non-smoker being enveloped in fumes in a restaurant by a smoker isn't.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well it is their choice, they can choose to ask them to stop smoking as often happens and they usually oblige. Or they can choose not to go to that restaurant.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You seem to have missed the fact that they may want the choice of going to that restaraunt? Choosing not to go is hardly a choice is it!

I smoked a few years ago and have to say I was always considerate of others, with the exception of pubs which I saw as smokefests!

Unknown · May 2007

I'm looking forward to the smoking ban , I find it hard to see how it can be a bad thing , smokers have inflicted their smoke onto other people for far too long using the excuse that there is no law against it .

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/roads4bikes/

The Bosscp · May 2007

Well, it might not be a good choice, but Paul was implying that they don't have a choice about whether they get enveloped in fag smoke, I was pointing out that they only don't have a choice if they go to that restaurant - they can choose not to get enveloped in smoke by choosing to steer clear of smoky places. (By the way I think saying they get 'enveloped' is a bit of an over-dramatisation)

Unknown · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Sacco

It may well be, all I am doing is putting straight the comment than people would be more stressed if they gave up. A person who does not smoke has lower stress levels than someone that does (all other things being equal of course)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ah, fair enough then. I read it as smokers would be more stressed if they were banned and they had to wait to get their fix. Which I think would probably make them more stressed than if they could have a smoke whenever they wanted.

If it forced them to give up completely then, yes the stress would be lower all round.

Joe Sacco · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Peyote

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Sacco

It may well be, all I am doing is putting straight the comment than people would be more stressed if they gave up. A person who does not smoke has lower stress levels than someone that does (all other things being equal of course)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ah, fair enough then. I read it as smokers would be more stressed if they were banned and they had to wait to get their fix. Which I think would probably make them more stressed than if they could have a smoke whenever they wanted.

If it forced them to give up completely then, yes the stress would be lower all round.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Although to contradict what I just said, when I did smoke i used to have a break every hour or so, whereas now I tend to go through the whole day without a single break so may be more stressed because of that! But at least I have less chance of dying early now...

Mister Paul · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

Smoking is their choice. A non-smoker being enveloped in fumes in a restaurant by a smoker isn't.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well it is their choice, they can choose to ask them to stop smoking as often happens and they usually oblige. Or they can choose not to go to that restaurant.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's not a choice. That's a situation you've been forced into by an inconsiderate smoker.

__________________________________________________________
Road Safety Expert

Unknown · May 2007

There is a lot of crap being written by the smoking brigade , " nobody forces you to go to smoky pubs etc ".
We know that, but when you live in a town with 50 or so pubs and none of them are smoke free it's either put up with the smoke or dont socialise with friends who want to go to the pub.

Smokers here in Scotland have dealt with the new legislation without a glitch as far as I can see, they go outside to brown their lungs and return happy. Everyone's a winner.

The best bit for me is not really the health side although I do appreciate that it is so much healthier being in a smoke free environment, it's not coming home stinking like smokers do.
Which only a non smoker will appreciate !

Unknown · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Commuter

There is a lot of crap being written by the smoking brigade , " nobody forces you to go to smoky pubs etc ".
We know that, but when you live in a town with 50 or so pubs and none of them are smoke free it's either put up with the smoke or dont socialise with friends who want to go to the pub.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

50 pubs and none of them are smoke free? I have sympathy for you then and yes, it sounds like the only choice you have is not to socialise in pubs or put up with the smoke. It's a shame that some thoughtful (and economically astute!) landlord hasn't thought to capitalise on the potential market of people who do want an non-smoking pub, they have around here and there's plenty to go to.

I guess the issue I have with it isn't to do with the rights of the customers (as has already been mentioned ad infinitum, they don't have to be there!), it's the rights of the landlord and his/her staff which are directly in conflict.

The whinging of the smokers and non-smokers about their rights (to smoke, or not to be 'enveloped' in smoke) being infringed is what gets on my nerves!

The Bosscp · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

That's not a choice. That's a situation you've been forced into by an inconsiderate smoker.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If it's a restaurant that allows smoking, then you've got to assume that there's the possibility that smoking will be going on there, so if you choose to go there knowing this then you've chosen to be among smokers.
If smoking isn't allowed there and people still smoke, then you can ask the management to have a word with the offenders, and if they didn't do anything about it then I think you'd be well within your rights to choose to leave without paying.

The Bosscp · May 2007

I also think people over-exaggerate the health detriment of smoking. It's not like you WILL DIE instantly.

Joe Sacco · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

I also think people over-exaggerate the health detriment of smoking. It's not like you WILL DIE instantly.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm sure if you did not many would smoke would they! Your risks of dying younger are massively increased though aren't they, which is not really over-exaggerating anything.

mr_hippo · May 2007

Bearing in mind that I have been out of the country for 5 years - with short trips back, please feel free to correct me.
If you are an alcoholic, you can get free treatment
If you are a drug abuser - free treatment
Do smokers get free treatment if they want to stop? A pack of 20 must cost about œ5 these days, how much of it is tax?

http://bangkokhippo.blogspot.com/

Ex-XXL weigh-in 26/27 May: Update published: Monday 28 May

Regulator · May 2007

As a smoker, I'll be glad when the ban comes in. I hate smoky pubs/restaurants/etc. Even at home, I stand on teh balcony to smoke rather than smoking indoors.

Just an aside, there has never been a causal link proven between smoking and cancer (i.e. smoking causes cancer). There is a strong correlation but that's not the same thing as a causal link. The health sector does itself no good overplaying the evidence.

I'd also be interested in seeing some in-depth research done into the effects of environmental pollution (especially from road vehicles) and cancer - there has been very little work done. However, a glance at existing data would appear to show that people living in areas with high air pollution indices (e.g. cities) are more likely to develop cancer than those living in clean air environments.

Also, smokers pay into the UK Treasury over 6 times what they cost the economy (including the NHS). They also die younger, thus saving on pensions and services for the elderly. Can we afford to be a nation of non-smokers?

___________________________
Bugger elephants - capabari are cuter!

The Bosscp · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Sacco

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

I also think people over-exaggerate the health detriment of smoking. It's not like you WILL DIE instantly.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm sure if you did not many would smoke would they! Your risks of dying younger are massively increased though aren't they, which is not really over-exaggerating anything.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yeah, it's the HOW massively and HOW MUCH younger that's often the exaggeration. Everyone dies at a different age anyway so it's impossible to say 'if this person hadn't have smoked they would have lived 4 years 3 months and 6 days older'.

Joe Sacco · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Sacco

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

I also think people over-exaggerate the health detriment of smoking. It's not like you WILL DIE instantly.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm sure if you did not many would smoke would they! Your risks of dying younger are massively increased though aren't they, which is not really over-exaggerating anything.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yeah, it's the HOW massively and HOW MUCH younger that's often the exaggeration. Everyone dies at a different age anyway so it's impossible to say 'if this person hadn't have smoked they would have lived 4 years 3 months and 6 days older'.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Clearly you can't say to the specific day, but you can put very good estimates around it based on averages of certain groups.
And the health deteriation cannot be under estimated.

And who is exaggerating and what are they saying anyway?

Mister Paul · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

That's not a choice. That's a situation you've been forced into by an inconsiderate smoker.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If it's a restaurant that allows smoking, then you've got to assume that there's the possibility that smoking will be going on there, so if you choose to go there knowing this then you've chosen to be among smokers.
If smoking isn't allowed there and people still smoke, then you can ask the management to have a word with the offenders, and if they didn't do anything about it then I think you'd be well within your rights to choose to leave without paying.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What restaurants do you know where smoking isn't allowed?

you don't get it do you Bonj?

If you want to eat somewhere where there is no smoke then you're restricted by the actions of the inconsiderate smokers who don't give a toss about anyone else around them.

__________________________________________________________
Road Safety Expert

The Smoking Ban 01/07/07

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